Council tenants to get apartments in "The Grange"

Wagon · 13-11-2008 04:22PM

Dudess wrote: »

Wagon, how are you missing my overwhelmingly obvious point? There's nothing wrong with wanting to buy a place, in a decent enough area, near family, friends, work... but it is possible to do this without paying half a million euro! In fact you could purchase a THREE-bedroom place that ticks all of the above boxes... for less than half a million euro.

What if you don't ****ing want to?! What if you wanted the fancy two bedroom apartment and not a house?! if someone wants to pay half a million euro its their business. Doesn't make them a wanker, just means they really like apartments.

Dudess · 13-11-2008 04:26PM

Wagon wrote: »

What if you don't ****ing want to?! What if you wanted the fancy two bedroom apartment and not a house?!

Jesus, did I say there was something wrong with wanting to buy a two-bedroom apartment? No I didn't.

if someone wants to pay half a million euro its their business. Doesn't make them a wanker

It does IMO - but that's only my opinion.

just means they really like apartments.

How does the amount you spend quantify how much you like apartments?! Do you like apartments less if you spend quarter of a million on one?

veritable · 13-11-2008 04:26PM

Dudess wrote: »

Jeez, you've quite the black and white view of the world... The woman sitting across from me is 40 and single - no way can she afford a house, so she's applying for affordable housing. Again, quite the lottery. She's not looking for a place in anywhere special - she's looking for something in a not particularly salubrious part of Cork's northside. What do you propose she do, seeing as it's so simple?
Take a hairdresser: that's a job. Yet, despite the fact that a job is all one needs to afford their own place, I doubt a hairdresser would be able to do so.
And then there's mortgage approval by the bank to consider.

who says she has to buy a house? what's wrong with renting?

ronbyrne2005 · 13-11-2008 04:27PM

stovelid wrote: »

Some parents do manage to do well by their kids despite living in bad areas, but the fact remains that children are at a severe disadvantage there. But nobody can deny that living in an OK area could tip the balance for, say, a restless young lad brought up by a single mother in the absence of a male figure.

The 'prairie' estate model has failed. We should encourage any moves toward encouraging any integration that could lessen policing, jail, and crime bills in the future.

I agree but give them a subsidised/cheap house in an ordinary area not upmarket areas where they might actually be stigmatised by the richer private owners. I think council should buy/rent houses/apartments in ordinary areas around country and disperse those in social housing around so ghettos can't emerge and council estates are a thing of the past. An ordinary area in Dublin for example would be Beaumont, Baldoyle, Swords etc.

Berty · 13-11-2008 04:28PM

Dudess wrote: »

On your own or with your fiance? It should be remembered that not everyone is guaranteed to be in a couple.

And a predominantly council area is exactly where she's looking.

Plus, what were you earning? There are certain variants that need to be taken into consideration. I'm seeing a lot of generalising on this thread...

I wouldnt have made a difference whether I bought the house on my own or with my Fiancee. I bought the first house on my own. It was only €73,000.

I bought my second house as a joint application because it was more than that. Im not disclosing the amount because its no doubt in negative equity and Im not publically making my financial situation available for scrutiny.

Im sure you do not expect me to disclose what I earn. I will say that between both of us we earn enough to pay our bills and live a good enough life with nice holidays. We are assessed as single people but pay a joint mortgage. Thats besides the point of course because my single friend earns more than myself and my fiancee together. Thats life, some are better of than others.

People will always generalise. I was called a boyracer by an old man yesterday. I asked him why and he said "oh the big wheels". These were the factory fit alloys that come with that model but that was his generalisation.

Berty · 13-11-2008 04:29PM

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

An ordinary area in Dublin for example would be Beaumont, Baldoyle, Swords etc.

They wont like that. Ordinary no less

Dudess · 13-11-2008 04:30PM

veritable wrote: »

who says she has to buy a house? what's wrong with renting?

Isn't that what council tenants do? As stovelid said, they're spoken about as if they're literally "given" the house when the local authority is their landlord.

stovelid · 13-11-2008 04:30PM

Wagon wrote: »

What if you don't ****ing want to?! What if you wanted the fancy two bedroom apartment and not a house?! if someone wants to pay half a million euro its their business. Doesn't make them a wanker, just means they really like apartments.

I think the point is that this doesn't really concern the prospective council tenants or the local authority. The homeowner's gripe is that people are getting vastly expensive apartments rented for them.

But the vast cost is a result of demand amongst buyers.

The local authority have to provide accommodation in all areas of Dublin, so the whole price thing is a private scrap between buyers and developers, egged on by the banks. The local authority don't have to take this into account when they provide mandated social housing in Stillorgan. Nor do the tenants. The envy and desire provoked by the gaffs shouldn't (and doesn't) figure in their concerns.

Dudess wrote: »

Isn't that what council tenants do? As stovelid said, they're spoken about as if they're literally "given" the house when the local authority is their landlord.

Not every local authority tenant is a single mother with 25 kids. Plenty of council tenants pay rent (quarter of monthly income I think) to the local authority.

Wagon · 13-11-2008 04:31PM

Dudess wrote: »

It does IMO - but that's only my opinion.

Nice opinion, love your broad minded nature.

How does the amount you spend quantify how much you like apartments?! Do you like apartments less if you spend quarter of a million on one?

YES, YOU WILL HAVE YOUR TESTICLES SURGICALLY REMOVED...

Seriously though, no, but if you had a chice buying a house for 450,000 euro and one of these apartments for 525,000 euro and you chose the apartment it just means you preferred to live in the apartment.

Dudess · 13-11-2008 04:33PM

Well yes, in that specific instance, but I'm talking about in general. I'm not talking about that one development.

veritable · 13-11-2008 04:33PM

Dudess wrote: »

Isn't that what council tenants do? As stovelid said, they're spoken about as if they're literally "given" the house when the local authority is their landlord.

wrong. the tax payer pays the bulk of the rent. so the person who bought the 2 bed in the grange will actually be paying for the rent of the council tenant beside them. very fair!

Berty · 13-11-2008 04:34PM

http://www.nenaghguardian.ie/news/berkery-resigns-over-ballina-traveller-case-1511788.html

This is a story not far from me when the council wanted to buy a very expensive house for a traveller family. Now it matters little to me whether they are a traveller family or not.

Its the price of the house. They could have bought them an equally cheaper house in a different area but as the family lived in that area for a long time in caravans they felt they should still live there.

I will let you make your own minds up. It has been on Matt Cooper also.

Dudess · 13-11-2008 04:37PM

veritable wrote: »

wrong. the tax payer pays the bulk of the rent. so the person who bought the 2 bed in the grange will actually be paying for the rent of the council tenant beside them. very fair!

Look, the original argument was "if you have a job, buy a house" but not all workers can afford to buy a house on what they earn.

Berty · 13-11-2008 04:39PM

Dudess wrote: »

Look, the original argument was "if you have a job, buy a house" but not all workers can afford to buy a house on what they earn.

I dont think anybody should buy now anyway because the looming plummet of the prices. They will drop even further and there will be ample appts soon when all the foreign nationals high tail it home.

Patience and something good will come up.

Wagon · 13-11-2008 04:43PM

Dudess wrote: »

Well yes, in that specific instance, but I'm talking about in general. I'm not talking about that one development.

Fair enough.

Latchy · 13-11-2008 04:53PM

I know the topic is in the main about apartments/tenants/council .But reading through it makes me realise even more how terribly snobbish and class orientented iireland has become ,much worse then when i lived there. I have seen some members of my own family who were raised and lived in council estates but now live in apartments or over Quarter million £ houses adopt the ' anywere else but not on my doorstep ' attidude .

stovelid · 13-11-2008 04:53PM

veritable wrote: »

wrong. the tax payer pays the bulk of the rent. so the person who bought the 2 bed in the grange will actually be paying for the rent of the council tenant beside them. very fair!

Wrong. Unless the local authority specifically fill up the Grange with tenants living on benefits. All other local authority tenants pay rent.

Tbh, I would doubt that new-style apartments would have the room to house all those 20-kid single mothers.

Dudess · 13-11-2008 05:01PM

I know a family of five children who grew up in a council house because the mother was widowed at a young age. I get the impression on this thread that people think poverty is something people have control over, which is a very depressing, narrow-minded point of view to have.
We live in a capitalist society, not everyone gets to have a slice of the pie.

hopalong85 · 13-11-2008 05:05PM

it's a disgrace if council tennants are put into these sort of estates and complexes. some people have worked their asses off to be there, it's an affront to them tbh.

Dudess · 13-11-2008 05:06PM

I agree there are lower-costing properties that can be rented by council tenants, to be fair.

Berty · 13-11-2008 05:09PM

Dudess wrote: »

I know a family of five children who grew up in a council house because the mother was widowed at a young age. I get the impression on this thread that people think poverty is something people have control over, which is a very depressing, narrow-minded point of view to have.
We live in a capitalist society, not everyone gets to have a slice of the pie.

And how awful that is.

There are so many different circumstances but Im sure she is holding her own.

But should her children now feel entitled to claim off the government for a house each because they feel somehow entitled to it.

This is the attitude that the majority of benefit and waiting list people have.

Go to your local post office and count the number of people collecting benefits on child allowance and job seekers allowance are and other benefits(of course too many to list). NOW, go to a "deprived" area(governemnt description) and count the number in the queue. There is a massive difference.

Some are still wearing Pyjamas FFS

mikemac · 13-11-2008 05:12PM

No shame in collecting childrens allowance, it isn't means tested. Or at least it wasn't up to the last budget, maybe it changed.

I'm not sure why you mentioned that example

Dinter · 13-11-2008 05:14PM

I've nothing against people being housed if the alternative is that they'll die in a doorway surrounded by the starving half dead children they cannot support. However I most certainly have a problem with people being housed if the alternative is they've to get off their lazy good for nothing arses and get a job.

Berty · 13-11-2008 05:17PM

micmclo wrote: »

No shame in collecting childrens allowance, it isn't means tested. Or at least it wasn't up to the last budget, maybe it changed.

I'm not sure why you mentioned that example

Possibly a bad example but still the numbers outweigh the others area / postal catchment areas.

I must also mention that I was reffering to nonworking and mostly single mothers from deprived areas as opposed to working families with children with grandparents or child minders.

MIN2511 · 13-11-2008 05:18PM

They did the same with the apartments in the IFSC, there is no point paying premium for an apartment when your next door neighbour gets it for free!

Berty · 13-11-2008 05:19PM

Dinter wrote: »

I've nothing against people being housed if the alternative is that they'll die in a doorway surrounded by the starving half dead children they cannot support. However I most certainly have a problem with people being housed if the alternative is they've to get off their lazy good for nothing arses and get a job.

Well if they are in Limerick they will get housed in the Maldron Hotel where there are currently last time I heard(monday night) 4 families in permanent residence.

One family is my Fiancees brothers fiancees family who walked out of their house in Southill because they were afraid for their lives. That is the new story as an excuse to be rehoused. "The refugee's can say it so why cant we?"

Its working for them.

Dudess · 13-11-2008 05:22PM

quirke_folder wrote: »

But should her children now feel entitled to claim off the government for a house each because they feel somehow entitled to it.

No, they've all gone to college or got good jobs, or both, and they will buy their own houses. One of them already has. Their mother herself has also gone back to college and got her degree. And yet, if the likes of her were to be housed in a private residential area, there'd be uproar - because she's from a council estate so she must be dodgy. Like I said, she ended up in council accommodation because of circumstances beyond her control - nothing to do with being a sponge. And with five kids to support, there was a limit to the number of hours she could work - but she did work. It was not enough to buy a house though.
It was also the 80s when poverty was widespread. It's very easy to say "get a job" when our generation have had it so good for 10 years. That won't be quite as feasible any more from now until god knows when.
It's also very easy to say "buy a house in a not great area, then sell up". Where's the guarantee you'll sell it...?

This is the attitude that the majority of benefit and waiting list people have.

Are you sure it's the majority though? Because I'm not trying to be PC, but having worked in the area, it's a minority from what I can see. Sure, a sizeable and noticeable minority... but a minority nonetheless.

marcsignal · 13-11-2008 05:23PM

The housing boom was fed by greed and nothing less.
If some prats were stupid and greedy enough to pay 500K for an apartment they deserve to be suckered.

a nice Halting Site in the grounds as well would just be the cream on the cake

I love the smell of 'Schadenfreude' in the morning :cool:

4zn76tysfajdxp · 13-11-2008 05:25PM

marcsignal wrote: »

I love the smell of 'Schadenfreude' in the morning :cool:

It's half four in the afternoon, when the fúck do you wake up?

Ass · 13-11-2008 05:26PM

The place was a kip anyway.

Council tenants to get apartments in "The Grange"

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