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gaelscoil or not??

  • 07-11-2008 10:03PM
    #1
    mrtayto
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24 ✭


    hi all,

    we've been debating tthe pros and cons of gaelscoils vs primary schools.just looking for opinions on both.

    thanx


«1

Comments

  • #2
    peanuthead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,111 ✭✭✭peanuthead


    i could be wrong but I feel that I notice children who go to gaelscoils suffer with their English spelling/grammar alot.


  • #3
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    • studies show that childen who are bi-linugual from an early age pick up other languages more easily later.
    • children in gaelscoileanna may be a little slower initially with English reading/spelling due to both languages but have been shown to outstrip performance of non-gaelscoil children by older classes


  • #4
    penny37
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭penny37


    Children in gaelscoileanna are in smaller classes than children in English speaking schools.


  • #5
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    penny37 wrote: »
    Children in gaelscoileanna are in smaller classes than children in English speaking schools.
    not true , unless the school is just starting.


  • #6
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    penny37 wrote: »
    Children in gaelscoileanna are in smaller classes than children in English speaking schools.

    False, my daughter is in a class of 35 ... and that's before the cutbacks in January.

    By the way I have 3 kids in a Gaelscoil and would highly recommend it ... kids are a bit slower to read and write than their peers but soon catch up. By the end of primary school they should be at a standard to breeze through LC honours Irish. That alone is a huge advantage. It's also true about picking up other languages more easily. Having lived abroad I don't understand the fear people have here of giving their kids exposure to more than one language from an early age - this is common in many European countries.


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  • #7
    penny37
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭penny37


    No- the staffing schedule - ie the numbers that you can appoint a new teacher at- is lower in gaelscoileanna that English speaking schools. However, a principle is not allowed to appoint a new teacher unless they have held onto that number for a year. So the numbers of teachers in a school is based on the roll from the previous September


  • #8
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    http://www.into.ie/ROI/WorkingConditions/Staffing/StaffingSchedules/

    As I said, it is lower as a school starts, tenth teacher equals out.


  • #9
    penny37
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭penny37


    yes but you need a student level of 259 before it levels out - that make a huge difference in a small school.


  • #10
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    I am in an Irish conversational group, and all of those in it who have sent their children to gaelscoilenna have nothing but great things to say about it. Their English will not be affected. Come secondary, they will be on par with any other school and their Irish, 10 times better. Extra points for the leaving too which could come in handy for college.


  • #11
    Baybay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Baybay


    It can however take children from gaelscoileanna a little longer to come to terms with second level sciences and maths.


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  • #12
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Baybay wrote: »
    It can however take children from gaelscoileanna a little longer to come to terms with second level sciences and maths.
    ?Source??


  • #13
    Baybay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Baybay


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    ?Source??
    Experience of a relative.


  • #14
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    In most gaelscoileanna terms for maths are done both in English and Irish, as many children do not go on to secondary in Irish. Many terms for science in secondary are new to all students,except for what has been covered in primary and again most Gaelscoileanna would give terms in both languages.


  • #15
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Baybay wrote: »
    Experience of a relative.

    One person hardly presents a case for it. They might have not excelled in maths or science regardless of what school they went to. I'd save your scaremongering until you have substantial sources.


  • #16
    Baybay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Baybay


    dlofnep wrote: »
    One person hardly presents a case for it. They might have not excelled in maths or science regardless of what school they went to. I'd save your scaremongering until you have substantial sources.

    6 As & 5 Bs in the JC


  • #17
    BoozyBabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭BoozyBabe


    So, they got 6 A's & 5 B's 3 years into their secondary education & you're saying the Gaelscoil held them back, & that they were slower than their peers as a result.

    Why? cos they didn't get 11 A's?

    I'm not being smart. I've just seen this thread. I'm not sure what case you're making.

    I've just relearned Irish myself, 11 years after leaving school. I've just a passion for the language now that my children will be going to a gaelscoil. It's such a beautiful language


  • #18
    Baybay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Baybay


    BoozyBabe wrote: »
    So, they got 6 A's & 5 B's 3 years into their secondary education & you're saying the Gaelscoil held them back, & that they were slower than their peers as a result.

    Why? cos they didn't get 11 A's?

    I'm not being smart. I've just seen this thread. I'm not sure what case you're making.

    At no point did I say the Gaelscoil held them back or that they were slower than their peers. The OP asked for an opinion, I gave one, based on an experience.

    I said it may take a little longer to come to terms with maths and sciences. I did not say it was impossible or even difficult, but as you've read the thread, no doubt you've noticed that.

    To clarify, the child to whom I referred is very bright and I just felt that the OP, having asked what people thought, might be interested to know that this child perceived himself to be struggling during the first few weeks. As most things in the early days of secondary can be daunting for some children, and as parents we usually try to make the transition as painless as possible, I thought it might have been a worthwhile piece of information.


  • #19
    BoozyBabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭BoozyBabe


    JESUS!! :eek:
    I DID say I was only trying to find out where you were coming from!
    You read that part too, didn't you!!!!

    The way I read it was people were saying Gaelscoils were great, & you came in saying it takes them longer to come to terms with Science & maths, & without further elaborating, in the context of this thread would imply that you were saying your relative struggled.
    I think that's a fair assumption for anyone reading this thread to make.

    Then you back it up with the fact that they got 6 As & 5 Bs & I just got very confused as to what point you were trying to make.

    As I said, I was not trying to be smart.

    Now you've said they struggled for only the 1st few weeks. I think all children struggle for the 1st few weeks of secondary, regardless of what type of primary school they went to. Secondary is a big change, & in the grand scheme of 5-6 years, struggling for the 1st couple of weeks isn't going to have a huge detriment on their overall education, as your relative absolutely proved.

    If anything else, they've actually disproved the claim that children in gaelscoileanna struggle in non-Irish subjects, & fair play to him / her for the grades.


  • #20
    Baybay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭Baybay


    BoozyBabe wrote: »
    you came in saying it takes them longer to come to terms with Science & maths, & without further elaborating, in the context of this thread would imply that you were saying your relative struggled.
    I think that's a fair assumption for anyone reading this thread to make.

    Then you back it up with the fact that they got 6 As & 5 Bs & I just got very confused as to what point you were trying to make.

    I think all children struggle for the 1st few weeks of secondary

    Boozybabe, I made a point which dlopnef asked me to source and when I cited a personal experience, was accused of scaremongering & the notion that my relative probably really wasn't that able to begin with, which was why I posted the JC results. This was where you came in, if I'm right, which has lead us to this point, a million miles probably from where the OP had hoped!!:)

    At the risk of raising further ire, if an opinion based on an experience scares someone, then an open forum may not be for them, a point that perhaps I should have made to the aforementioned poster rather than as part of a reply to you.

    Anyway, yes, perhaps I could have elaborated more to begin with and yes, children do struggle anyway with secondary. What I clumsily tried to opine was that if they are likely to be challenged anyway, is it really necessary to add to it.

    Ok, I'm bowing out of this thread now. Enjoy your newfound Irish, Boozybabe & I look forward to coming across you on another thread!


  • #21
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    MrTayto, most important: visit any and all schools you are considering, get a feel for the place, see if it is a happy place and well run. Staff in gaelscoileanna tend to be younger and as they have applied to teach specifically through Irish have a passion for it, which children soon pick up. Ask to meet the principal(by appt), you'll see v quickly
    if he/she is the kind of person you can warm to and s/he sets the tone for the school. Word of warning, many Gaelscoileanna are very oversubscribed, ring the school see what the enrolement policy is an get name down asap, you can always take the name off the list later.


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  • #22
    naidheachdair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭naidheachdair


    I can only speak from the point of view of Scots Gaelic rather than Irish, but if the option to go to an Irish medium school is there I'd grab it. Going to a bilingual school gives many children an aptitude for other languages they might want to learn in later life, and as noted above the teachers can often be younger and more enthusiastic than their monolingual counterparts. A second language also opens up all kinds of employment doors. And these Celtic languages are all on the up--more and more younger people are becoming interested in them. I personally wish I'd had the opportunity to go.


  • #23
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Naidheachdair - Are you a fluent Scots-Gaelic speaker? I've studied up on it a small bit.. I can understand a great portion of it, due to it's similarities with Gaeilge. I know it's not fairing well, or at least wasn't in Scotland - Is there any revival movement there at the moment for it (assuming you're in Scotland).


  • #24
    mrtayto
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24 ✭mrtayto


    are there fees associated with gaelscoils?


  • #25
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Gaelscoileanna are "ordinary" primary schools, ie not fee paying or private, but like every primary school in the country have to fundraise to keep the doors open!! And folllowing the budget, except every school to be raising even more!


  • #26
    naidheachdair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭naidheachdair


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Naidheachdair - Are you a fluent Scots-Gaelic speaker? I've studied up on it a small bit.. I can understand a great portion of it, due to it's similarities with Gaeilge. I know it's not fairing well, or at least wasn't in Scotland - Is there any revival movement there at the moment for it (assuming you're in Scotland).

    I'm not fluent, I'm learning, although I do aim to be fluent at some point! That's why I wish I'd had the option to go to bilingual school; it would have improved things no end.

    Things are improving, slowly but surely. A BBC TV channel similar to TG4 (but satellite only) started a couple of months ago and interest in language courses at places like Sabhal Mor Ostaig (the only Gaelic university) is rising steadily.

    Some of the Gaelic-medium schools, particularly in primary, are becoming oversubscribed as (some might argue pushy, middle-class) parents realise the benefits of bilingual education so there's a big campaign for teacher recruitment going on.

    The money and the government will are certainly there in Scotland, but whether it'll be a success will only be known in twenty years or so.


  • #27
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    naidheachdair wrote: »
    Things are improving, slowly but surely. A BBC TV channel similar to TG4 (but satellite only) started a couple of months ago and interest in language courses at places like Sabhal Mor Ostaig (the only Gaelic university) is rising steadily.

    .
    Was at sabhal mór ostaig a few yrs back for a snoop, I spoke Irish, man there spoke gaelic, we managed to understand each other


  • #28
    naidheachdair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭naidheachdair


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Was at sabhal mór ostaig a few yrs back for a snoop, I spoke Irish, man there spoke gaelic, we managed to understand each other

    They're really closely related, like Dutch and Flemish. It's only certain words, spelling and some pronunciation that's different. They're both more useful languages than you might think!


  • #29
    cmcsoft
    Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭cmcsoft


    Friends of mine are thinking about sending their child to the Gaelscoil. Personally I think it's a good idea but they feel that some subjects, especially English and Maths could be a little more difficult for kids who go there. Now I have no experience first hand so I could get lashed for saying this. I'm just wondering is this the case?


  • #30
    meep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭meep


    I've spoken with some secondary teachers and some students who hold up the idea that kids from irish language schools have some difficulty at second level with english terminology in some subjects.

    I agree this is anecdotal but when we were deciding on schooling for our tots a few years ago, weighing everthing up, we decided against Irish schools.

    And actually, the amount of Irish our daughter is picking up in 'normal' primary school is amazing, though I think that's down to individual teachers as much as anything else.

    Plus it's getting more and more difficut to get in to Irish Schools. I know in our local, it's nigh on impossible now. Waiting lists apply and I've heard that it's necessry to attend a particular pre-school (irish) to have much hope.


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  • #31
    luckat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    The stars of my son's school were kids who'd done primary in gaelscoileanna. They were the high attainers in both science and humanities subjects.

    It may be because most of the parents who send their kids to gaelscoilenna are highly motivated, and involved in their kids' homework, etc.

    In this particular case, an unusual proportion of the parents were teachers - always an advantage to kids.


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