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Riello Boiler Problem

  • 06-11-2008 10:31pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭ Rega


    I stupidly let the oil run out in my tank. Got it refilled, bled the boiler and it started fine but after a while I noticed that there was black smoke coming from it. Stopped the boiler immediately. Restarted it but now it won't ignite, just keeps ticking over.

    Any ideas? Please help. I'm bloody freezing. :(


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭ ART6


    Rega wrote: »
    I stupidly let the oil run out in my tank. Got it refilled, bled the boiler and it started fine but after a while I noticed that there was black smoke coming from it. Stopped the boiler immediately. Restarted it but now it won't ignite, just keeps ticking over.

    Any ideas? Please help. I'm bloody freezing. :(

    Sounds like to might have drawn in some crud that was stirred up from the bottom of the tank by the new delivery, and partially or completely blocked the oil filter or the burner nozzle. First step I'd suggest would be to open up and clean out the filter (the thingy in the glass bowl just before the oil supply enters the burner). Then unscrew the burner nozzle and blow it through to get out any grit. Be careful not to damage the igniter pins immediately above the burner nozzle.

    If the igniter doesn't detect flame within a certain time, it will cut out the boiler, and if the nozzle or filter is blocked there will be no flame. If the nozzle is partially blocked the oil will not atomise correctly and again, may not ignite.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭ JamesM


    Rega wrote: »
    I stupidly let the oil run out in my tank. Got it refilled, bled the boiler and it started fine but after a while I noticed that there was black smoke coming from it. Stopped the boiler immediately. Restarted it but now it won't ignite, just keeps ticking over.

    Any ideas? Please help. I'm bloody freezing. :(

    Did you turn the oil pressure adjusting screw when you were bleeding the burner ? If you have changed the pressure, this would cause black smoke.
    Does the burner cut off completely after trying to start, or run on. If it keeeps trying to start itself, the photocell may have been dirtied by all the black smoke and bad burning.
    Jim.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭ ednwireland


    there is usually a filter at the tank end as well which need sto be there, i found out after putting in a new boiler that i didnt have one and was wondering why i was changing nozzles full of crap every 6 months. no idea who took it out certainley wasnt me, but you live and learn.

    the nozzle has a metal filter on the back if this has crud in it you can soak in petrol and clean it but easier to get a new one from the plumbing suppllies cant remember what they cost but but less than a tenner .


  • Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭ Rega


    JamesM wrote: »
    Did you turn the oil pressure adjusting screw when you were bleeding the burner ? If you have changed the pressure, this would cause black smoke.
    Does the burner cut off completely after trying to start, or run on. If it keeeps trying to start itself, the photocell may have been dirtied by all the black smoke and bad burning.
    Jim.

    Thanks for the quick replies everybody. I think I must have turned the oil pressure adjustiung screw Jim as it took a while for me to find the bleed valve.

    To answer your question the burner doesn't cut out but goes into a cycle of trying to ignite every 15 / 20 seconds without success.

    I'll have a look at that this evening.

    Cheers everybody.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭ JamesM


    Rega wrote: »
    Thanks for the quick replies everybody. I think I must have turned the oil pressure adjustiung screw Jim as it took a while for me to find the bleed valve.

    To answer your question the burner doesn't cut out but goes into a cycle of trying to ignite every 15 / 20 seconds without success.

    I'll have a look at that this evening.

    Cheers everybody.

    The screw should be about 15 to17 half turns out from fully in. If the burner is a RDB, the photocell pulls out from the back - clean the glass eye - put it back. If you didn't let it run too long, it may not have built up much soot - but the boiler might need to be cleaned out. Also lift out the burner and see if the front is clean.
    Jim.


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Quin_Dub


    Hi...

    I have a problem with my boiler - Essentially it will start and seem to run fine for about 5/6 minutes , then it stops and nothing I can do will get it going again..

    If I leave it for a few hours , it will start again but the same problem will re-occur..

    I've tried all the things I know - Bled the system to make sure there were no airlocks , Cleaned the photo-cell and the oil spay jet in the burner , but nothing has had an effect.

    It's a Firebird Boiler with a Riello RDB 2.1 burner.

    Any ideas or suggestions?

    Thanks in advance

    -Eanna


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭ JamesM


    Sounds like the boiler is running fine, but the water in not circulating - maybe thermostat in house turned down, or water pump packed in.
    Jim.


  • Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭ copper12


    Parts for oil burners are relative cheep
    So repairing one DIY wont cost an arm and a leg
    From what you are saying I would change the solenoid as they are known to break down
    From the systems you describe it seem to me to be a likely fault
    If this works post back a reply it may help someone else
    If it don’t post anyway as some one else might come up with another idea
    the more information we get the more we can help


  • Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭ copper12


    Try James advise first


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Quin_Dub


    Thanks for the advice Jim..

    I assume that I can check the thermostat by just turning it up significantly and seeing if the bolier stays running..

    Where is the water pump likely to be - Will it be in beside the hot-water tank or outside with the boiler (Boiler is outdoors in a standalone housing).

    Appreciate the assistance..

    Thanks again...

    -Eanna


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  • Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭ copper12


    Try the utility or in the hop press


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭ JamesM


    The circulating pump is usually beside the boiler in the cabinpack. It can be either on the flow or return pipes. Sometimes it sticks and can be released by taking out the centre screw and spinning the impeller, but if it has been running oK recently, it is likely that the bearing has gone, or it has burnt out.
    Jim.


  • Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭ copper12




  • Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭✭✭ OneBarrel


    I have had a similar problem, burner running on and off, lot of smoke.
    Had a guy in to look at it, he changed a valve or something. Didnt help, he came back and we both figured out the oil pump/solenoid in the boiler doesnt work. Smoke may be due to all the messing around we did to get to this conclusion and crumbling away seal/fire proof cement on the door. Anyone know where I can get a replacement riello mwctron 3bm burner?

    Cheers


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Quin_Dub


    James...

    Just a note to say that you were spot on in your diagnosis...

    I got a professional out to look at the system last night and the problem was indeed the water pump at the Boiler...He did exactly as you suggested , removed the screw and manually re-started the impeller.

    Thanks very much for your help...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭ JamesM


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    James...

    Just a note to say that you were spot on in your diagnosis...

    I got a professional out to look at the system last night and the problem was indeed the water pump at the Boiler...He did exactly as you suggested , removed the screw and manually re-started the impeller.

    Thanks very much for your help...

    Glad to help - unfortunately, it may stick again. If the system is off for any length of time, the pump can stick - and will probably work again when you spin it. If it only went off the day before - it may be worn and act up again - hopefully not :)
    Jim.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭ JamesM


    OneBarrel wrote: »
    I have had a similar problem, burner running on and off, lot of smoke.
    Had a guy in to look at it, he changed a valve or something. Didnt help, he came back and we both figured out the oil pump/solenoid in the boiler doesnt work. Smoke may be due to all the messing around we did to get to this conclusion and crumbling away seal/fire proof cement on the door. Anyone know where I can get a replacement riello mwctron 3bm burner?

    Cheers

    The Mectron is now a G3 and can be got in any Heatmerchants.
    Even though the mounting plate is the same, put on the new one and the new gasket, if the old one is damaged. If you are getting smoke and heat pushing out the front of the boiler, make sure that all the flueways are clear - right up through the boiler and out the back or top - depending on the make of boiler.
    Jim.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Quin_Dub


    JamesM wrote: »
    Glad to help - unfortunately, it may stick again. If the system is off for any length of time, the pump can stick - and will probably work again when you spin it. If it only went off the day before - it may be worn and act up again - hopefully not :)
    Jim.

    Thanks - I have the guy coming back next week to give the system a full service - Will get him to check the pump in detail for any signs of wear etc.

    Whole system is only 4.5 yrs old so hopefully it was just a one off thing and not a indicator of a failure..


  • Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭✭✭ OneBarrel


    Thanks Jim, I'll give it a good cleaning over the weekend.

    JamesM wrote: »
    The Mectron is now a G3 and can be got in any Heatmerchants.
    Even though the mounting plate is the same, put on the new one and the new gasket, if the old one is damaged. If you are getting smoke and heat pushing out the front of the boiler, make sure that all the flueways are clear - right up through the boiler and out the back or top - depending on the make of boiler.
    Jim.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 lucky123


    Just found this thread. I am having trouble with my Riello burner too. Also have firebird boiler. Ongoing problem since September. Have had engineer out numerous times. He replaced the burner in September but it is still not right. The glass eye has to be cleaned at least once a day so that the boiler will fire up. It gets covered in black soot. Engineer doesn't seem to know what the problem is. We are tired of paying him and now he won't answer his phone! Boiler is in a brick shed outside and it gets quite smoky. Engineer said chimney needed to be cleaned. We did this and still smoky. Any ideas?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭ copper12


    When you say the boiler is located in a shed is there enough purpose provided air for the burner
    Was the original burner replaced because of the same problem
    Are you burning oil or kerosene


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭ JamesM


    If you have a chimney, not just a vent out the wall, you may be burning gas oil. The new burner will have been set up for kerosene, with a nozzle that's too big for gas oil. The guy may also have raised the oil pressure to stop the flame floating away. This all means that you have a flame that's too big for the chamber and the whole thing is sooting up. The burner needs to be adjusted properly (smaller nozzle)and the boiler now needs to be cleaned fully because of all the soot. If you are burning kerosene, you still need to have the burner adjusted and the boiler cleaned.
    You should never see smoke - maybe some white condensation on a day like this.
    I'm off to the bright outdoors :)
    Jim.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 lucky123


    Thanks for reply! Is replacing the nozzle and cleaning the boiler out something we could do ourselves? Where abouts is this nozzle? In reply to the other response, the boiler has plenty of space around it in the shed and I'm not actually sure of the reason for the other burner being replaced. Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭ JamesM


    I know that this is a DIY forum, but it really would be better to get an expert to set up the burner. At the moment, all that smoke and soot is unburnt oil, and you are wasting money. If you get an expert to service and set up the boiler properly, you will save more than you will pay him, over the next year.
    A riello burner and a Firebird boiler is very easy for an expert to set up properly - that guy didn't know what he was at.
    You could take off the front plate and clean out the boiler. Also make sure that the flue is not blocked. But you probably need a proper service engineer to set up the burner.
    Jim.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 lucky123


    I think you're right- the engineer we have doesn't know what he's doing. Its just that we have paid him so much already I feel he should have to come back and fix it, but if he can't then we will have to get someone else. Any recommendations? Anyone in south Dublin/Wicklow area?
    Thanks Jim.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 565 zokrez


    I had exact problem and engineer came back to replace nozzle as flame was too big and didn't charge. I'll pm his name and number.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭ pixbyjohn


    Rega wrote: »
    Thanks for the quick replies everybody. I think I must have turned the oil pressure adjustiung screw Jim as it took a while for me to find the bleed valve.

    To answer your question the burner doesn't cut out but goes into a cycle of trying to ignite every 15 / 20 seconds without success.

    I'll have a look at that this evening.

    Cheers everybody.

    Did you get your burner working ? What was the problem ? It might help someone else to know how you fixed it.
    Cheers


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭ JamesM


    lucky123 wrote: »
    I think you're right- the engineer we have doesn't know what he's doing. Its just that we have paid him so much already I feel he should have to come back and fix it, but if he can't then we will have to get someone else. Any recommendations? Anyone in south Dublin/Wicklow area?
    Thanks Jim.

    I haven't seen this guy for years - but he's good. http://braydirectory.ie/index.php?Entry=53
    Jim.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 PRLoughM


    Hi can someone help, my Riello oil Boiler, keeps cutting out every 30sec, Its already been bleed the boiler and it still keeps cutting out, Could it have something to do with the Eye, or The Transformer? I would be greatful for any advice.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭ JamesM


    PRLoughM wrote: »
    Hi can someone help, my Riello oil Boiler, keeps cutting out every 30sec, Its already been bleed the boiler and it still keeps cutting out, Could it have something to do with the Eye, or The Transformer? I would be greatful for any advice.

    You need to explain a bit better what is happening. Did you run out of oil ? Are you sure that it's been bled properly ? Does it ignite, but then cut out ? Do you know if it is a G3 or a RDB ?
    Jim.


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