Riello Boiler Problem

Rega

I stupidly let the oil run out in my tank. Got it refilled, bled the boiler and it started fine but after a while I noticed that there was black smoke coming from it. Stopped the boiler immediately. Restarted it but now it won't ignite, just keeps ticking over.

Any ideas? Please help. I'm bloody freezing.

ART6

Rega wrote: »

I stupidly let the oil run out in my tank. Got it refilled, bled the boiler and it started fine but after a while I noticed that there was black smoke coming from it. Stopped the boiler immediately. Restarted it but now it won't ignite, just keeps ticking over.

Any ideas? Please help. I'm bloody freezing.

Sounds like to might have drawn in some crud that was stirred up from the bottom of the tank by the new delivery, and partially or completely blocked the oil filter or the burner nozzle. First step I'd suggest would be to open up and clean out the filter (the thingy in the glass bowl just before the oil supply enters the burner). Then unscrew the burner nozzle and blow it through to get out any grit. Be careful not to damage the igniter pins immediately above the burner nozzle.

If the igniter doesn't detect flame within a certain time, it will cut out the boiler, and if the nozzle or filter is blocked there will be no flame. If the nozzle is partially blocked the oil will not atomise correctly and again, may not ignite.

JamesM

Rega wrote: »

I stupidly let the oil run out in my tank. Got it refilled, bled the boiler and it started fine but after a while I noticed that there was black smoke coming from it. Stopped the boiler immediately. Restarted it but now it won't ignite, just keeps ticking over.

Any ideas? Please help. I'm bloody freezing.

Did you turn the oil pressure adjusting screw when you were bleeding the burner ? If you have changed the pressure, this would cause black smoke.
Does the burner cut off completely after trying to start, or run on. If it keeeps trying to start itself, the photocell may have been dirtied by all the black smoke and bad burning.
Jim.

ednwireland

there is usually a filter at the tank end as well which need sto be there, i found out after putting in a new boiler that i didnt have one and was wondering why i was changing nozzles full of crap every 6 months. no idea who took it out certainley wasnt me, but you live and learn.

the nozzle has a metal filter on the back if this has crud in it you can soak in petrol and clean it but easier to get a new one from the plumbing suppllies cant remember what they cost but but less than a tenner .

Rega

JamesM wrote: »

Did you turn the oil pressure adjusting screw when you were bleeding the burner ? If you have changed the pressure, this would cause black smoke.
Does the burner cut off completely after trying to start, or run on. If it keeeps trying to start itself, the photocell may have been dirtied by all the black smoke and bad burning.
Jim.

Thanks for the quick replies everybody. I think I must have turned the oil pressure adjustiung screw Jim as it took a while for me to find the bleed valve.

To answer your question the burner doesn't cut out but goes into a cycle of trying to ignite every 15 / 20 seconds without success.

I'll have a look at that this evening.

Cheers everybody.

JamesM

Rega wrote: »

Thanks for the quick replies everybody. I think I must have turned the oil pressure adjustiung screw Jim as it took a while for me to find the bleed valve.

To answer your question the burner doesn't cut out but goes into a cycle of trying to ignite every 15 / 20 seconds without success.

I'll have a look at that this evening.

Cheers everybody.

The screw should be about 15 to17 half turns out from fully in. If the burner is a RDB, the photocell pulls out from the back - clean the glass eye - put it back. If you didn't let it run too long, it may not have built up much soot - but the boiler might need to be cleaned out. Also lift out the burner and see if the front is clean.
Jim.

Quin_Dub

Hi...

I have a problem with my boiler - Essentially it will start and seem to run fine for about 5/6 minutes , then it stops and nothing I can do will get it going again..

If I leave it for a few hours , it will start again but the same problem will re-occur..

I've tried all the things I know - Bled the system to make sure there were no airlocks , Cleaned the photo-cell and the oil spay jet in the burner , but nothing has had an effect.

It's a Firebird Boiler with a Riello RDB 2.1 burner.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks in advance

-Eanna

JamesM

Sounds like the boiler is running fine, but the water in not circulating - maybe thermostat in house turned down, or water pump packed in.
Jim.

copper12

Parts for oil burners are relative cheep
So repairing one DIY wont cost an arm and a leg
From what you are saying I would change the solenoid as they are known to break down
From the systems you describe it seem to me to be a likely fault
If this works post back a reply it may help someone else
If it don’t post anyway as some one else might come up with another idea
the more information we get the more we can help

copper12

Try James advise first

Quin_Dub

Thanks for the advice Jim..

I assume that I can check the thermostat by just turning it up significantly and seeing if the bolier stays running..

Where is the water pump likely to be - Will it be in beside the hot-water tank or outside with the boiler (Boiler is outdoors in a standalone housing).

Appreciate the assistance..

Thanks again...

-Eanna

copper12

Try the utility or in the hop press

JamesM

The circulating pump is usually beside the boiler in the cabinpack. It can be either on the flow or return pipes. Sometimes it sticks and can be released by taking out the centre screw and spinning the impeller, but if it has been running oK recently, it is likely that the bearing has gone, or it has burnt out.
Jim.

copper12

Quin-Dub
this might help http://www.firebird.ie/installation/SYSTEM-MANUAL.pdf

OneBarrel

I have had a similar problem, burner running on and off, lot of smoke.
Had a guy in to look at it, he changed a valve or something. Didnt help, he came back and we both figured out the oil pump/solenoid in the boiler doesnt work. Smoke may be due to all the messing around we did to get to this conclusion and crumbling away seal/fire proof cement on the door. Anyone know where I can get a replacement riello mwctron 3bm burner?

Cheers

Quin_Dub

James...

Just a note to say that you were spot on in your diagnosis...

I got a professional out to look at the system last night and the problem was indeed the water pump at the Boiler...He did exactly as you suggested , removed the screw and manually re-started the impeller.

Thanks very much for your help...

JamesM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

James...

Just a note to say that you were spot on in your diagnosis...

I got a professional out to look at the system last night and the problem was indeed the water pump at the Boiler...He did exactly as you suggested , removed the screw and manually re-started the impeller.

Thanks very much for your help...

Glad to help - unfortunately, it may stick again. If the system is off for any length of time, the pump can stick - and will probably work again when you spin it. If it only went off the day before - it may be worn and act up again - hopefully not
Jim.

JamesM

OneBarrel wrote: »

I have had a similar problem, burner running on and off, lot of smoke.
Had a guy in to look at it, he changed a valve or something. Didnt help, he came back and we both figured out the oil pump/solenoid in the boiler doesnt work. Smoke may be due to all the messing around we did to get to this conclusion and crumbling away seal/fire proof cement on the door. Anyone know where I can get a replacement riello mwctron 3bm burner?

Cheers

The Mectron is now a G3 and can be got in any Heatmerchants.
Even though the mounting plate is the same, put on the new one and the new gasket, if the old one is damaged. If you are getting smoke and heat pushing out the front of the boiler, make sure that all the flueways are clear - right up through the boiler and out the back or top - depending on the make of boiler.
Jim.

Quin_Dub

JamesM wrote: »

Glad to help - unfortunately, it may stick again. If the system is off for any length of time, the pump can stick - and will probably work again when you spin it. If it only went off the day before - it may be worn and act up again - hopefully not
Jim.

Thanks - I have the guy coming back next week to give the system a full service - Will get him to check the pump in detail for any signs of wear etc.

Whole system is only 4.5 yrs old so hopefully it was just a one off thing and not a indicator of a failure..

OneBarrel

Thanks Jim, I'll give it a good cleaning over the weekend.

JamesM wrote: »

The Mectron is now a G3 and can be got in any Heatmerchants.
Even though the mounting plate is the same, put on the new one and the new gasket, if the old one is damaged. If you are getting smoke and heat pushing out the front of the boiler, make sure that all the flueways are clear - right up through the boiler and out the back or top - depending on the make of boiler.
Jim.

lucky123

Just found this thread. I am having trouble with my Riello burner too. Also have firebird boiler. Ongoing problem since September. Have had engineer out numerous times. He replaced the burner in September but it is still not right. The glass eye has to be cleaned at least once a day so that the boiler will fire up. It gets covered in black soot. Engineer doesn't seem to know what the problem is. We are tired of paying him and now he won't answer his phone! Boiler is in a brick shed outside and it gets quite smoky. Engineer said chimney needed to be cleaned. We did this and still smoky. Any ideas?

copper12

When you say the boiler is located in a shed is there enough purpose provided air for the burner
Was the original burner replaced because of the same problem
Are you burning oil or kerosene

JamesM

If you have a chimney, not just a vent out the wall, you may be burning gas oil. The new burner will have been set up for kerosene, with a nozzle that's too big for gas oil. The guy may also have raised the oil pressure to stop the flame floating away. This all means that you have a flame that's too big for the chamber and the whole thing is sooting up. The burner needs to be adjusted properly (smaller nozzle)and the boiler now needs to be cleaned fully because of all the soot. If you are burning kerosene, you still need to have the burner adjusted and the boiler cleaned.
You should never see smoke - maybe some white condensation on a day like this.
I'm off to the bright outdoors
Jim.

lucky123

Thanks for reply! Is replacing the nozzle and cleaning the boiler out something we could do ourselves? Where abouts is this nozzle? In reply to the other response, the boiler has plenty of space around it in the shed and I'm not actually sure of the reason for the other burner being replaced. Thanks.

JamesM

I know that this is a DIY forum, but it really would be better to get an expert to set up the burner. At the moment, all that smoke and soot is unburnt oil, and you are wasting money. If you get an expert to service and set up the boiler properly, you will save more than you will pay him, over the next year.
A riello burner and a Firebird boiler is very easy for an expert to set up properly - that guy didn't know what he was at.
You could take off the front plate and clean out the boiler. Also make sure that the flue is not blocked. But you probably need a proper service engineer to set up the burner.
Jim.

lucky123

I think you're right- the engineer we have doesn't know what he's doing. Its just that we have paid him so much already I feel he should have to come back and fix it, but if he can't then we will have to get someone else. Any recommendations? Anyone in south Dublin/Wicklow area?
Thanks Jim.

zokrez

I had exact problem and engineer came back to replace nozzle as flame was too big and didn't charge. I'll pm his name and number.

pixbyjohn

Rega wrote: »

Thanks for the quick replies everybody. I think I must have turned the oil pressure adjustiung screw Jim as it took a while for me to find the bleed valve.

To answer your question the burner doesn't cut out but goes into a cycle of trying to ignite every 15 / 20 seconds without success.

I'll have a look at that this evening.

Cheers everybody.

Did you get your burner working ? What was the problem ? It might help someone else to know how you fixed it.
Cheers

JamesM

lucky123 wrote: »

I think you're right- the engineer we have doesn't know what he's doing. Its just that we have paid him so much already I feel he should have to come back and fix it, but if he can't then we will have to get someone else. Any recommendations? Anyone in south Dublin/Wicklow area?
Thanks Jim.

I haven't seen this guy for years - but he's good. http://braydirectory.ie/index.php?Entry=53
Jim.

PRLoughM

Hi can someone help, my Riello oil Boiler, keeps cutting out every 30sec, Its already been bleed the boiler and it still keeps cutting out, Could it have something to do with the Eye, or The Transformer? I would be greatful for any advice.

JamesM

PRLoughM wrote: »

Hi can someone help, my Riello oil Boiler, keeps cutting out every 30sec, Its already been bleed the boiler and it still keeps cutting out, Could it have something to do with the Eye, or The Transformer? I would be greatful for any advice.

You need to explain a bit better what is happening. Did you run out of oil ? Are you sure that it's been bled properly ? Does it ignite, but then cut out ? Do you know if it is a G3 or a RDB ?
Jim.

PRLoughM

Hi JamesM, its been bled prop, it ignites, but then cut out after 30sec, and it an RDB. Thanks

JamesM

PRLoughM wrote: »

Hi JamesM, its been bled prop, it ignites, but then cut out after 30sec, and it an RDB. Thanks

It could be a faulty or dirty photocell. That's a black plastic tube that is pushed into the back of the burner (facing you). It has a wire coming out of it. If you carefully pull it out and look a the front of it, the glass might be dirty. If it is, that's almost certainly your problem - wipe it gently.
If it is dirty, it can mean that there is another problem - dirty boiler, not burning properly, etc.
Jim.

philsboiler

Hope someone can help. I have a firebird boiler with riello rdb burner. My boiler locked out. Checked the oil tank and there was plenty oil in it, but I bled the burner for good measure. Didn't fix the problem. Sounds like the burner isn't firing before it locks out.

After some faffing around I managed to get the burner working again. I pulled out the photocell (the photocell wasn't dirty) then hit the reset/lock out button and started the boiler up. I let it run for about 30 seconds then stopped it, put the photocell back in and started the boiler. The burner sounded better when i turned it on and it fired up ok.

I inspected the tank and had a slight leak due to a loose nut on the pipe going into the filter. I turned off the boiler, shut the valve on the tank tightened up the nut to stop the leak, opened the valve. Fired up the boiler but it locked out. bled it again. locked out. fixed it again using the remove the photocell method. Not sure if the leak was a coincidence or something to do with the problem.

Fingers crossed everything is ok now but if it locks out again... why does pulling out the photocell fix it? why is the burner locking out?

Thanks
Phil

JamesM

It shouldn't be anything to do with the leak. Sometimes if there is too much air, the photocell will not "see" the very clean blue flame that forms.
The photocells can be faulty and the wires inside could be shorting and only connecting after you have moved it by pulling it in and out. What you have described is not the norm.

One more scenario, if the level in the tank is very low (and the tank itself is low compared to the burner) the leak could let air into the oil pump. Running the burner with the photocell out could build up pressure in the pump - and then it starts when you put the photocell back in.
Jim.

dino25

I had the same sort of problem at the weekend. I have had a Firebird boiler with the 70/90 Riello RDB burner fitted, installed 20 months ago. So far I have had 4 breakdowns. Firstly 2 pumps replaced which siezed (Warmflow state that it is oil contamination, I am definitely disagreeing with that one). I have had to get a baffle changed in the boiler as the previous one was designed incorrectly and didn't allow enough airflow and eventually coked up and choked the boiler. Finally at the weekend the oil cut out yet again. This is where the thread is relevant. Boiler engineer checked the boiler and replaced the photocell, which did not cure the problem. He then changed the control board, which also has the transformer fitted, again did n not completely solve the issue. Eventually found that it was the photocell and control board were faulty. The photocell pulled the control board with it. Eventual cost including call out fee £175. My advice is if you think the photocell is dodgy, change it ASAP to avoid more expensive repair costs in the future.
BTW, I am not too impressed by the Riello oil burner reliability, so if anyone has any advice as to which burner I can change to, I am all ears.

JamesM

Up to a year or so ago. Riello were the most reliable burners I know. Then they started having trouble with oil pumps. The pumps started sticking (jamming). Warmflow and other suppliers have admitted this.

A while back a service engineer told me that when he was servicing a RDB, he took out the photocell to check it and clean it. When he put it back in again, the burner started acting up. There had been no problem beforehand. He replaced the photocell with a new one, and all was OK again. Looks like something was shorting or breaking contact, when he moved the wire into the cell.
Jim.

dino25 wrote: »

I had the same sort of problem at the weekend. I have had a Firebird boiler with the 70/90 Riello RDB burner fitted, installed 20 months ago. So far I have had 4 breakdowns. Firstly 2 pumps replaced which siezed (Warmflow state that it is oil contamination, I am definitely disagreeing with that one). I have had to get a baffle changed in the boiler as the previous one was designed incorrectly and didn't allow enough airflow and eventually coked up and choked the boiler. Finally at the weekend the oil cut out yet again. This is where the thread is relevant. Boiler engineer checked the boiler and replaced the photocell, which did not cure the problem. He then changed the control board, which also has the transformer fitted, again did n not completely solve the issue. Eventually found that it was the photocell and control board were faulty. The photocell pulled the control board with it. Eventual cost including call out fee £175. My advice is if you think the photocell is dodgy, change it ASAP to avoid more expensive repair costs in the future.
BTW, I am not too impressed by the Riello oil burner reliability, so if anyone has any advice as to which burner I can change to, I am all ears.

philsboiler

Just over a week later and the boiler has locked out again. I have tried the photocell method again to get it firing up but its not working this time. Sounds a bit rough, clicking a bit when its starting up. Not sure if it has sucked some crap in there. I'm gonna buy a new photocell tomorrow and fit it. Lets see if this fixes the problem otherwise I think I'm gonna have to call out a plumber and I guess I'm looking at a couple of hundred quid to get it fixed.

Any more ideas?

JamesM

philsboiler wrote: »

Just over a week later and the boiler has locked out again. I have tried the photocell method again to get it firing up but its not working this time. Sounds a bit rough, clicking a bit when its starting up. Not sure if it has sucked some crap in there. I'm gonna buy a new photocell tomorrow and fit it. Lets see if this fixes the problem otherwise I think I'm gonna have to call out a plumber and I guess I'm looking at a couple of hundred quid to get it fixed.

Any more ideas?

It could be the oil pump packing in, it's hard to tell.
Have you looked at the front of the burner. Take off the nut at the top of the burner and pull the burner out - make sure that it is off :eek:. If there is dirt built up on the draught tube, that could be affecting the photocell. Or if something has fallen down inside the boiler - in front of the burner. Or if the boiler has blocked up, there could be damage to the draught tube. All these could cause the photocell to act up.
Jim.

LowOdour

Dont want to be hijkacking the thread but my Firebrand boiler locked out today and I (stupidly) turned the pressure screw. Got the airlock fixed and the boiler has been running fine the last 2 hours. Its turning on and off as before, the heat in the rads are the same and all are working. there is no smell of burning etc coming from the boiler.

My question is, if there is a problem after adjusting the screw, when should I notice the problem...and what problems could this adjustment cause?

JamesM

LowOdour wrote: »

Dont want to be hijkacking the thread but my Firebrand boiler locked out today and I (stupidly) turned the pressure screw. Got the airlock fixed and the boiler has been running fine the last 2 hours. Its turning on and off as before, the heat in the rads are the same and all are working. there is no smell of burning etc coming from the boiler.

My question is, if there is a problem after adjusting the screw, when should I notice the problem...and what problems could this adjustment cause?

I presume that it is a Riello burner. The pressure should be set with a gauge, but you are probably OK if the screw is about 12 to 15 half turns out from fully in. You should see the wider part of the screw just coming out of the slot.
If there is a problem, you could notice smoke from the vent, or a sharp smell. But sometimes, you do not notice anything until you open the boiler and find a layer of soot. This would be uneconomical.
Jim.

LowOdour

JamesM wrote: »

I presume that it is a Riello burner. The pressure should be set with a gauge, but you are probably OK if the screw is about 12 to 15 half turns out from fully in. You should see the wider part of the screw just coming out of the slot.
If there is a problem, you could notice smoke from the vent, or a sharp smell. But sometimes, you do not notice anything until you open the boiler and find a layer of soot. This would be uneconomical.
Jim.

I reset the screw, to make sure it is 12 t0 15 half turns. Again, all seems fine. Ive noticed that the rads are a little warmer than they were before.

JamesM

LowOdour wrote: »

I reset the screw, to make sure it is 12 t0 15 half turns. Again, all seems fine. Ive noticed that the rads are a little warmer than they were before.

The heat of the water in the rads is controlled by the boiler stat - you may have moved it slightly when you were trying to get the boiler going.
Jim.

magentis

More problems here!I have a firebird 70/90 with riello rdb2.2 burner.
All was well until last week when it started belching out thick black smoke.I took the baffle plates out and cleaned down the boiler which was full of soot.i cleaned the burner nozzle and photocell and put it all back together.
It wont start up off the clock in the house anymore i can hear the water pump running but i have to hit the button on the dual stat to get it to start.If i turn off the clock in the house and turn it back on again within minutes it starts fine but if its a few hours i have to go out and press the button on the stat again.the smoke is gone alright but this button thing is a pain.anyone have any idea what the problem is?

JamesM

Either you have the thermostat turned right up to it's highest, or the high limit stat is faulty.
There could also be air trapped in the top of the boiler. If the hot water flow from the top of the boiler turns down into the ground, or along the floor, very soon after the pipe exits the boiler, the boiler can overheat when the timer is switched off (circulating pump also switches off). Turn down the stat and see how it goes.
Jim.

magentis

still having problems!
i replaced the dual stat and that has solved the start up problems,it ran fine for a few days and now its smoking again.its only 2 years old and got very little use for the first year.

JamesM

magentis wrote: »

still having problems!
i replaced the dual stat and that has solved the start up problems,it ran fine for a few days and now its smoking again.its only 2 years old and got very little use for the first year.

Running time has nothing to do with it, if the burner is not adjusted properly.
Nozle size, oil pressure and air adjustment are all critical. The oil that goes up in soot and black smoke could cost you more than a good service engineer !
Jim.

Traditional

my pump siezed up on a reillo rb only less that 2 years old , replaced pump and tried to start it out side of boiler to tune it , would not start ! running ok purging ok as well ! got tired of it put it back in the boiler , hit the switch that evening and off she went ! wot do think the problem was ?

JamesM

Traditional wrote: »

my pump siezed up on a reillo rb only less that 2 years old , replaced pump and tried to start it out side of boiler to tune it , would not start ! running ok purging ok as well ! got tired of it put it back in the boiler , hit the switch that evening and off she went ! wot do think the problem was ?

Riello have had problems with their oil pumps in the last few years - some only lasting a few months.
The airflow on the RDB is a lot stronger than the G3, and sometimes the flame will not establish, or will float away, especially if the burner is out of the boiler. When the burner is in the boiler there is some back pressure which will help to establish the flame.
Jim.

Traditional

hi jim,
wot number should boiler be at for good combustion , the diesel ones could be set easily but with the kerosene its not all that easy , i think its at 2 on burner .

JamesM

Traditional wrote: »

hi jim,
wot number should boiler be at for good combustion , the diesel ones could be set easily but with the kerosene its not all that easy , i think its at 2 on burner .

It's a RDB. It depends on nozzle size (should be at least .60 gal, maybe .75 gal.), and oil pressure (15 to 17 half turns out from fully in), and then air adjustment would usually be between 3 and 5. Try to make sure that the flame is not orange or smokey - clean yellow, with a hint of blue . But make the blue almost disappear. Of course, it should be done with the proper insruments by a service engineer .
Jim.
Light may have got at the photocell, when you tried to run it outside the boiler, that would also stop it igniting.