A & E charges (argument)

byrner88 · 13-10-2008 02:56AM #1

trying to settle an argument. if i had to go to A & E could i pay in the hospital there and then with cash/laser or credit card or do i have to wait on the bill to come out ?

Fiend-Foe · 13-10-2008 03:10AM

byrner88 wrote: »

trying to settle an argument. if i had to go to A & E could i pay in the hospital there and then with cash/laser or credit card or do i have to wait on the bill to come out ?

Last time I was there I payed cash. Was a few years back now...

Kinetic^ · 13-10-2008 03:12AM

Either.

c - 13 · 13-10-2008 06:42AM

Yeah you can pay with cash/card upfront. I've done it myself in the past.

Vain · 13-10-2008 10:04AM

You can pay then straight away

Ponster · 13-10-2008 10:08AM

I can think of one sure-fire way of finding out !

Naos · 13-10-2008 10:23AM

I was in the A & E on Saturday, my mates dog bit me.

They did not accept cash, only laser or credit card.

robinph · 13-10-2008 10:33AM

Services such as A & E and GP's should be free at the point of use. Pay more taxes for it if needed but there should never be charges for those kinds of essential services.

whatawaster · 13-10-2008 10:35AM

robinph wrote: »

Services such as A & E and GP's should be free at the point of use. Pay more taxes for it if needed but there should never be charges for those kinds of essential services.

different argument, but a valid one. The problem then is people will start going to their A&E anytime they sneeze and both A&E departments and most GPs are already stretched to their limits.

javaboy · 13-10-2008 10:38AM

Naos wrote: »

I was in the A & E on Saturday, my mates dog bit me.

They did not accept cash, only laser or credit card.

I don't know if it's still ongoing but there was an industrial action recently where the receptionists were refusing to handle cash so that could explain that.

robinph wrote: »

Services such as A & E and GP's should be free at the point of use. Pay more taxes for it if needed but there should never be charges for those kinds of essential services.

Nice idea but I think the inevitable hypochondriacs would just clog up the system if it was free.

Darragh29 · 13-10-2008 10:53AM

robinph wrote: »

Services such as A & E and GP's should be free at the point of use. Pay more taxes for it if needed but there should never be charges for those kinds of essential services.

I disagree with this, it sounds like a rational argument but when you look under the surface a bit, I think it should be the opposite, that the price should be doubled... I brought my Dad into A & E not too long ago, he was having an aortic aneurysm, I should have called an ambulance for him and he'd have been triaged on arrival but he was working near enough to St. James in Dublin so I threw him in his van and ran him up there. I didn't knwo that when you present as a patient as a walk in, you have to queue to be triaged. Usually when you get this, you bleed to death internally after 3 minutes but the type of aortic aneurysm that he was having gave him a 40 minute window in which he could be operated on.

I'll never forget being in the A & E waiting room with my Dad unconcious sitting beside me falling off his seat and the room mostly full with dipso junkie wasters who had absolutely fu*k all wrong with them. I had to make a huge scene at the reception just to get him into triage as he was dying in front of me. I saw told 3 times to shut up, sit down and get back in the queue. When he was triaged, it was like a scene straight out of ER from that point onwards.

Sorry if this seems combative, I'm just relaying my own experience of A & E, and from my experience, most of the people I saw there that day had neither an accident or an emergency that warranted them being there. There were people there with injuries, a man who had something going through his hand after a workplace injury on a building site, an elderly woman who fell and busted her head, etc. But most people I saw had nothing seriously wrong with them that would justify a trip to A & E, they were just sitting there like people you would see in your local GP waiting room.

Had my Dad died that day, I'd have run amok in that waiting room almost full of wasters. Thankfully he survived, but I'll never forget seeing him being stretchered out of the waiting room and into recussication room 4, past a room full of selfish c*nts that I had to queue behind while they had their sore thumb attended to.

Sorry I've wandered off topic here, just wanted to make this point...

jebuz · 13-10-2008 10:55AM

Why don't you go to the ATM, take out a wad of cash, walk out in front of a Brennan's bread van and take it from there...

rugbug86 · 13-10-2008 11:02AM

Darragh29 wrote: »

I disagree with this, it sounds like a rational argument but when you look under the surface a bit, I think it should be the opposite, that the price should be doubled... I brought my Dad into A & E not too long ago, he was having an aortic aneurysm, I should have called an ambulance for him and he'd have been triaged on arrival but he was working near enough to St. James in Dublin so I threw him in his van and ran him up there. I didn't knwo that when you present as a patient as a walk in, you have to queue to be triaged. Usually when you get this, you bleed to death internally after 3 minutes but the type of aortic aneurysm that he was having gave him a 40 minute window in which he could be operated on.

I'll never forget being in the A & E waiting room with my Dad unconcious sitting beside me falling off his seat and the room mostly full with dipso junkie wasters who had absolutely fu*k all wrong with them. I had to make a huge scene at the reception just to get him into triage as he was dying in front of me. I saw told 3 times to shut up, sit down and get back in the queue. When he was triaged, it was like a scene straight out of ER from that point onwards.

Sorry if this seems combative, I'm just relaying my own experience of A & E, and from my experience, most of the people I saw there that day had neither an accident or an emergency that warranted them being there. There were people there with injuries, a man who had something going through his hand after a workplace injury on a building site, an elderly woman who fell and busted her head, etc. But most people I saw had nothing seriously wrong with them that would justify a trip to A & E, they were just sitting there like people you would see in your local GP waiting room.

Had my Dad died that day, I'd have run amok in that waiting room almost full of wasters. Thankfully he survived, but I'll never forget seeing him being stretchered out of the waiting room and into recussication room 4, past a room full of selfish c*nts that I had to queue behind while they had their sore thumb attended to.

Sorry I've wandered off topic here, just wanted to make this point...

Similar thing happened to me last year. It's a disgrace.

And @ OP - it's free if you get a referrel from your doctor. Also, IIRC they take laser/CC.

robinph · 13-10-2008 11:13AM

whatawaster wrote: »

different argument, but a valid one. The problem then is people will start going to their A&E anytime they sneeze and both A&E departments and most GPs are already stretched to their limits.

If you made just A&E free but not GP's then maybe, but both should be free and then I cannot see that it would make a huge difference to which system got more clogged up. The NHS if bloody fantastic, despite all the whining you may hear them making about it across the water. The main difference I noticed between the likes of GP visits under the NHS and here is that in the UK you usually have to make an appointment for in a day or so before you can see the GP where as here you just walk in off the street and hand over your cash to see the doctor almost immediately. This is clearly because it's free in the UK so more people are likely to go to see the GP and so it causes a queue, except for emergency cases. The fact that there is a delay in seeing the GP though will weed out people who actually don't really have anything wrong with them to a certain extent.

Making it free to see GP's would save a huge amount of money in the long term as people will be more likely to go and see them sooner and so you catch issues before they progress too far. With the current setup people don't go and seek medical advise until they are much worse and so it then takes them longer to recover from whatever it is and costs more to fix than if they had just gone along to see the GP sooner without the fear of wasting money on something they were not sure about.

javaboy · 13-10-2008 11:15AM

Darragh29 wrote: »

Sorry if this seems combative, I'm just relaying my own experience of A & E, and from my experience, most of the people I saw there that day had neither an accident or an emergency that warranted them being there. There were people there with injuries, a man who had something going through his hand after a workplace injury on a building site, an elderly woman who fell and busted her head, etc. But most people I saw had nothing seriously wrong with them that would justify a trip to A & E, they were just sitting there like people you would see in your local GP waiting room.

Had my Dad died that day, I'd have run amok in that waiting room almost full of wasters. Thankfully he survived, but I'll never forget seeing him being stretchered out of the waiting room and into recussication room 4, past a room full of selfish c*nts that I had to queue behind while they had their sore thumb attended to.

I understand how you feel and would be pissed off too but just a quick point on the "selfish c*nts".

In a lot of cases people are told to present to A&E for minor things by doctors etc. I broke my leg a while ago and had a cast fitted. I was told if the cast comes loose (which it did) that I should present myself at A&E. A lot of those people with sore thumbs or whatever else are there because that's where they were referred or because there's no alternative.

It used to be the case that a GP would pick up a needle and thread and put a few stitches in but there seems to be very few who will do that now for various reasons. Instead they get sent to A&E.

Darragh29 · 13-10-2008 11:26AM

javaboy wrote: »

I understand how you feel and would be pissed off too but just a quick point on the "selfish c*nts".

In a lot of cases people are told to present to A&E for minor things by doctors etc. I broke my leg a while ago and had a cast fitted. I was told if the cast comes loose (which it did) that I should present myself at A&E. A lot of those people with sore thumbs or whatever else are there because that's where they were referred or because there's no alternative.

It used to be the case that a GP would pick up a needle and thread and put a few stitches in but there seems to be very few who will do that now for various reasons. Instead they get sent to A&E.

You might have a point there JavaB. Maybe there is a wider systems problem there with GP's. I don't know, but what did get me into a rage was the junkie dipso's hanging around A & E, arguing amongst themselves, falling all over the place, annoying people for cigarettes and generally disrupting everyone and this was in the middle of the day...

I know what GP's are like, they'll always play it safe and fob you off to A & E. They should use some of the money they are making to invest in X- Ray equipment and the like and start bringing themselves into the 20th century, never mind the 21st century.

kmick · 13-10-2008 11:35AM

Yeah they introduced the fee to stop people turning up at A&E with a sore finger or a cold and wasting the acute resources. Of course what they had not factored in was that the sort of people who turn up at A&E with a sore finger (nutters, the elderly, drunks, timewasters) are the sort of people who cant pay the A&E charge anyway. So now the genuine people turn up and have to queue and pay for the privilege while the people who genuinely don't need A&E treatment end up not paying because they have no money.

If you go to the GP first its free but the GP costs 60 euro in most cases so its catch 22. Also if you have the ability to go to the GP by definition you are not acute and depending on what is wrong with you it is generally cheaper and faster to go to a VHI swift clinic and avoid all the chaos.

If you are really ill like the guy with the heart thing though there is no alternative than to scream and shout in a non-threatening way until you are seen. Unfortunately in A&E those that shout loudest i.e. make the most fuss tend to get seen quicker.

13-10-2008 11:42AM

kmick wrote: »

Yeah they introduced the fee to stop people turning up at A&E with a sore finger or a cold and wasting the acute resources. Of course what they had not factored in was that the sort of people who turn up at A&E with a sore finger (nutters, the elderly, drunks, timewasters) are the sort of people who cant pay the A&E charge anyway. So now the genuine people turn up and have to queue and pay for the privilege while the people who genuinely don't need A&E treatment end up not paying because they have no money.

If you go to the GP first its free but the GP costs 60 euro in most cases so its catch 22. Also if you have the ability to go to the GP by definition you are not acute and depending on what is wrong with you it is generally cheaper and faster to go to a VHI swift clinic and avoid all the chaos.

If you are really ill like the guy with the heart thing though there is no alternative than to scream and shout in a non-threatening way until you are seen. Unfortunately in A&E those that shout loudest i.e. make the most fuss tend to get seen quicker.

The doctor should only be referring patiets to A anE id they having Cardiac problems,they should be sent to the Acute assessment unit in a hospital.

Darragh29 · 13-10-2008 11:51AM

kmick wrote: »

Yeah they introduced the fee to stop people turning up at A&E with a sore finger or a cold and wasting the acute resources. Of course what they had not factored in was that the sort of people who turn up at A&E with a sore finger (nutters, the elderly, drunks, timewasters) are the sort of people who cant pay the A&E charge anyway. So now the genuine people turn up and have to queue and pay for the privilege while the people who genuinely don't need A&E treatment end up not paying because they have no money.

If you go to the GP first its free but the GP costs 60 euro in most cases so its catch 22. Also if you have the ability to go to the GP by definition you are not acute and depending on what is wrong with you it is generally cheaper and faster to go to a VHI swift clinic and avoid all the chaos.

If you are really ill like the guy with the heart thing though there is no alternative than to scream and shout in a non-threatening way until you are seen. Unfortunately in A&E those that shout loudest i.e. make the most fuss tend to get seen quicker.

Another thing worth pointing out is that the bums who seem to live in A & E have medical cards, so you're down there for the first time in your life with your auld lad who is dying in front of you with welfare class losers bumming cigarettes off you, they get seen for free, the first thing I got asked when I presented with my Dad was did he have health insurance!?!?! He nearly fu*king dead and they are asking me about health insurance!?!?!?!

I had to make a complete tinker out of myself just to get him triaged. Then when they knew he was half dead, they reacted immediately.

I have to say, for all that is said about the health care, once he got into the system, he got excellent care. There wasn't a single thing I would fault about the system that I saw, once he got from the waiting room into the recussication room.

Trampas · 13-10-2008 11:52AM

Another thing I hate about GP's is that most of them are appointment only.

Sorry but I didn't think I would have been sick or have an accident today so I didn't make an appointment.

Nothing worse than sitting in A&E waiting to been seen to while drunks and junkies come in and get ahead of you because they decided to stab each other over a can or a joint.

Shouldn't be free if you ask me as like said above people will have a sneeze will go and see a doctor as they think they have the flu

13-10-2008 11:59AM

Darragh29 wrote: »

I disagree with this, it sounds like a rational argument but when you look under the surface a bit, I think it should be the opposite, that the price should be doubled... I brought my Dad into A & E not too long ago, he was having an aortic aneurysm, I should have called an ambulance for him and he'd have been triaged on arrival but he was working near enough to St. James in Dublin so I threw him in his van and ran him up there. I didn't knwo that when you present as a patient as a walk in, you have to queue to be triaged. Usually when you get this, you bleed to death internally after 3 minutes but the type of aortic aneurysm that he was having gave him a 40 minute window in which he could be operated on.

I'll never forget being in the A & E waiting room with my Dad unconcious sitting beside me falling off his seat and the room mostly full with dipso junkie wasters who had absolutely fu*k all wrong with them. I had to make a huge scene at the reception just to get him into triage as he was dying in front of me. I saw told 3 times to shut up, sit down and get back in the queue. When he was triaged, it was like a scene straight out of ER from that point onwards.

Sorry if this seems combative, I'm just relaying my own experience of A & E, and from my experience, most of the people I saw there that day had neither an accident or an emergency that warranted them being there. There were people there with injuries, a man who had something going through his hand after a workplace injury on a building site, an elderly woman who fell and busted her head, etc. But most people I saw had nothing seriously wrong with them that would justify a trip to A & E, they were just sitting there like people you would see in your local GP waiting room.

Had my Dad died that day, I'd have run amok in that waiting room almost full of wasters. Thankfully he survived, but I'll never forget seeing him being stretchered out of the waiting room and into recussication room 4, past a room full of selfish c*nts that I had to queue behind while they had their sore thumb attended to.

Sorry I've wandered off topic here, just wanted to make this point...

agree 100%, same thing happened to me

robinph · 13-10-2008 12:07PM

Trampas wrote: »

Shouldn't be free if you ask me as like said above people will have a sneeze will go and see a doctor as they think they have the flu

But the people that are likely to be doing that are probably already getting seen for free and paid for by our taxes, there won't be more of them suddenly appear once the rest of us can get seen without having to hand over cash first.

I want to be seen for "free" at the point of service as well regardless of if it means paying an extra penny or so off my wages. Money changing hands should never come into it at the point at which you need it most. Getting asked for insurance details before they treat someone having a heart attack is just totally wrong.

Realtine · 13-10-2008 12:42PM

Depending on the hospital they may ask you for the 66E charge but they won't refuse to see you obviously if you don't have it with you. An invoice can be posted out to you.

With regard to the comment about health insurance, receptionists are required to ask a pile of questions when registering a patient and health insurance /medical card is one of them along with some other non-relevant questions, but they have to be asked. Although it's difficult I know when a loved one is very ill and someone is asking what you think are non important details, but it's all for the greater good or so we're led to believe.

Naos · 13-10-2008 12:42PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

I disagree with this, it sounds like a rational argument but when you look under the surface a bit, I think it should be the opposite, that the price should be doubled...

I don't agree with you at all. Fair enough what happened to your dad was awful and it was fortunate he turned out okay, but those awaiting to be triajed do not have a choice when they are called.

I seen other folk go ahead of me even though I was there first, I didn't mind - mine was a very minor issue so I knew others would be called before me. You think I wanted to spend my saturday morning in a waiting room? I called the family and she informed me to go to A & E.

Why should I have to pay 132e for simply following doctors orders?

Darragh29 · 13-10-2008 12:59PM

Naos wrote: »

I don't agree with you at all. Fair enough what happened to your dad was awful and it was fortunate he turned out okay, but those awaiting to be triajed do not have a choice when they are called.

I seen other folk go ahead of me even though I was there first, I didn't mind - mine was a very minor issue so I knew others would be called before me. You think I wanted to spend my saturday morning in a waiting room? I called the family and she informed me to go to A & E.

Why should I have to pay 132e for simply following doctors orders?

Well A & E doesn't work on the basis of who is there first, although I suppose the longer you are there, the more likely you are to eventually be seen.

I can't understand why anyone would be in A & E with a very minor issue as you say you had. You are saying that you went to your GP and he/she sent you down to A & E??? This is my point. Your GP charges 50-60 Euro for a 10 minute consultation. These guys should be investing in technology, so they can deal with you in their surgery instead of fobbing you off to A & E.

Maybe the GP's are responsible for all the people down in A & E with fu*k all seriously wrong with them. If that's the case, the HSE should change the current set-up to a 2 tier A & E system, one for life threatening medical emergencies and another for everything else that doesn't fit into that category. Also, if you have private health insurance, a new approach now is private A & E centres where you are seen immediately. But if you have a serious medical problem like my Dad had, they can't do anything for you, if you need a team of ICU surgeons to open you up immediately, you have to go to a hospital A & E with ICU facilities.

When I was in the waiting room in St. James, I wondered how many people actually died because they didn't get triaged in time and ended up dying in the waiting room. I've heard of this happening a few times...

Realtine · 13-10-2008 01:10PM

Naos wrote: »

Why should I have to pay 132e for simply following doctors orders?

Why 132E?

mikemac · 13-10-2008 01:13PM

Realtine wrote: »

Why 132E?

Someone mentioned doubling the current charge so that must be 66euro

Realtine · 13-10-2008 01:24PM

ah! ta

Naos · 13-10-2008 02:16PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well A & E doesn't work on the basis of who is there first, although I suppose the longer you are there, the more likely you are to eventually be seen.

I know, I said that.

I can't understand why anyone would be in A & E with a very minor issue as you say you had. You are saying that you went to your GP and he/she sent you down to A & E??? This is my point. Your GP charges 50-60 Euro for a 10 minute consultation. These guys should be investing in technology, so they can deal with you in their surgery instead of fobbing you off to A & E.

I was bitten by a dog - I needed to get a Tetanus shot. I phoned my GP who informed me they did not do such shots at the clinic and that I'd have to go down to A & E. Do you really think thats how I wanted to spend my Saturday morning?

Maybe the GP's are responsible for all the people down in A & E with fu*k all seriously wrong with them. If that's the case, the HSE should change the current set-up to a 2 tier A & E system, one for life threatening medical emergencies and another for everything else that doesn't fit into that category. Also, if you have private health insurance, a new approach now is private A & E centres where you are seen immediately. But if you have a serious medical problem like my Dad had, they can't do anything for you, if you need a team of ICU surgeons to open you up immediately, you have to go to a hospital A & E with ICU facilities.

I'd agree with a setup like this.

@Realtine - As Micmclo replied - the cost of a visit to A&E is 66e.

Darragh29 · 13-10-2008 02:35PM

Naos wrote: »

I was bitten by a dog - I needed to get a Tetanus shot. I phoned my GP who informed me they did not do such shots at the clinic and that I'd have to go down to A & E. Do you really think thats how I wanted to spend my Saturday morning?

I'm not havin a go at ya! Seriously, a GP can't give someone a tetanus fu*kin injection!?!?!?!

DundalkDuffman · 14-10-2008 07:00PM

Maybe the GP didn't have the necessary shot in stock.

I can tell you that the hospital I work in, you can't pay as you turn up in A&E (mores the pity:rolleyes:), an invoice is posted out to you.

A & E charges (argument)

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