Woman doesn't bother paying her rent... wins a court settlement

AARRRGH · 09-10-2008 06:02PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well Ned is giving out that people are living off the state. If he is getting cheques from the Dept. of Social Welfare every month, then he is living off the state in my eyes.

I disagree. He is selling a service - the customer just happens to be the Government.

In my eyes a handout is when you expect the Government to give you money for no reason other than the fact that you're too lazy to work or incapable of working, or something along those lines.

I would consider NedKelly to be the opposite of the type of person who receives handouts - he has his own business/assets which make him money - he doesn't have to rely on anyone or anything for help.

ShooterSF · 09-10-2008 06:16PM

So Darragh have you never had a customer who's getting state aid? What about those parasites that own shops who sell food to people on the dole and are therefore profiteering from your taxes.

How about we just abolish any social benefits?

mountainyman · 09-10-2008 06:20PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

Why has this topic gone retarded with people talking about politicians owning loads of houses and landlords getting their houses for free and property owners being scumbags?

Because some of us can see that the woman who stole her tenants property and threw it away is a scumbag and the woman should have got 200,000 in compensation.

The whole tenor of the original email was that it was terrible that some scumbag landlady had to pay compensation.
No it wasn't. The land lady should be killed. Legally and Judicially but stil killed.

Darragh29 · 09-10-2008 06:21PM

emmagean wrote: »

are you sure you're in business, cos you're completely wrong here. If it creates profit you declare it in an end of year tax return as a PAYE employee not as a business. There is no Corporation tax of 12.5% because it IS NOT A BUSINESS plain and simple. contact a solicitor if you're still unsure!

If you are selling the Big Issue on the Naas Road, you are running a business. You are very obviously getting confused between a business/enterprise and a company. If you are buying something with a view to selling it to someone else or are providing a service for a charge, you are running a business or an enterprise, even if you are not making money in your endeavours. Get a Junior Cert commerce book if you don't take my word for it.

emmagean wrote: »

are you saying that landlords do? if you are then again you are completely incorrect. first off a landlord has to pay a fee to the PRTB. Secondly the PRTB are heavily weighted in favour of tenants. Thirdly if by some miracle the PRTB eventually gets their finger out and eventually rules in favour of the landlord the tenant can still stick two fingers up and not pay a penny. The landlord will still have to engage the (expensive) services of a solicitor if they want a chance at getting their money back.

Resentment and jealousy are the two words that come to mind when reading some of the posts on here. But I'm loving the discussion

Look, my only issue here is with greedy people fu*king ruining the country that I was born in and I'm a citizen of. A country that is paying rent through the provision of state support services, on behalf of countless people who can't afford rent, simply because some people were allowed to basically take control of the property market and artifically force up the price of mortages and rent, a country that is being milked dry like this has serious serious problems. We are that country.

We need to hold some people to account here, if we continue making the same stupid mistakes in this country, we're going to see Bangladesh as a place with higher living and social standards than us.

In the years ahead, when you start seeing more homeless people knocking at your door in the evenings and you start seeing more homeless people on the news and in town begging in streets, I hope the property parasites can make the connection between their own rampant greed and the country that we have become, a country of people who have too much and people who have fu*k all.

For a country that fought so hard to obtain land rights and sacrificed so much to take the foot of English landlord of the necks of Irish people, we seem to have a fairly short fu*king memory...

mountainyman · 09-10-2008 06:23PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

That's utterly retarded, as no doubt the people already have money problems so the temptation to just keep the money must be huge.

There are too many scumbags in this country.

Well at least one of them had to pay compensation to her victim.

NedKelly · 09-10-2008 06:24PM

mountainyman wrote: »

Because some of us can see that the woman who stole her tenants property and threw it away is a scumbag and the woman should have got 200,000 in compensation.

The whole tenor of the original email was that it was terrible that some scumbag landlady had to pay compensation.
No it wasn't. The land lady should be killed. Legally and Judicially but stil killed.

do u not have homework to do ?

mountainyman · 09-10-2008 06:25PM

NedKelly wrote: »

Ok from a moral perspective i agree with you 100%

but there are too many vested intrests for this to ever happen
i wouldnt say most TDs have just 1 house
i would even say that 50% of them arent even PRTB registered
the fact is that this county got rich by people selling houses to eachother

We were never rich just ' (an unkind word for a black person)' rich.
As we now see.

Darragh29 · 09-10-2008 06:25PM

ShooterSF wrote: »

So Darragh have you never had a customer who's getting state aid? What about those parasites that own shops who sell food to people on the dole and are therefore profiteering from your taxes.

How about we just abolish any social benefits?

When I replace an engine in your car and the Dept of Social Welfare sends me a cheque for the damage, and when I'm charging the Dept. of Social more for replacing your engine than if I did that job for you directly, I'll agree with you then!

NedKelly · 09-10-2008 06:28PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

When I replace an engine in your car and the Dept of Social Welfare sends me a cheque for the damage, and when I'm charging the Dept. of Social more for replacing your engine than if I did that job for you directly, I'll agree with you then!

if you swap Dept. of Social for insurance company in your statement above is that not how the car crash repair buisness works ????

mountainyman · 09-10-2008 06:29PM

Scootay wrote: »

Did you miss the bit where I said there was a mortgage on the property? One of the beneficiaries insisted on being paid their share which cost me a fair wedge only some of which came from a bank. I paid for the house I live in and I paid for the house which is rented. I'd sell it tomorrow if I could get a price that would cover what I've spent.

I'd sell my house tomorrow if I could get a price which would cover what I have spent. scootay I misjudged you.

emmagean · 09-10-2008 06:33PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

For a country that fought so hard to obtain land rights and sacrificed so much to take the foot of English landlord of the necks of Irish people, we seem to have a fairly short fu*king memory...

i had a feeling all along that this was an Irish-English landlord vs peasant issue. Didnt actually think though that someone in 2008 would use this as ammunition in a discussion. Get real and get into the 21st century!

With that I declare myself out.

ps: if you ever do feel like disclosing what line of business you are in I'm sure quite a few of us would be interested!!

K-9 · 09-10-2008 06:33PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well my tax is paying for your mortgage on 3 properties. Your right, if we had less selfless people in this country instead of opportunistic parasitic property welfare dependants, the people who the state are currently paying you above market rates to house, could probably afford to buy themselves. But unfortunately for the country but luckily for you, we have had a government around here recently that prioritises your right to own 3 properties over a family that should in all normal circumstances, be able to buy their own home.

If you had been kept out of the property market, the chances are that the families that the state are currently paying you to house, would be self dependant.

So how do you suggest people on welfare pay rent?

DonJose · 09-10-2008 06:45PM

Private Residential Tenancies Board

Determination Order

Ref: DR947/2007
In the matter of Inna Ladchenko (Applicant Tenant) and Aideen Hall (Respondent Landlord) the Private Residential Tenancies Board, in accordance with section 121 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 and pursuant to a declaration under section 97(4)(b) of that Act relating to a decision reached by the parties themselves, determines that:

1.The Applicant Tenant and her family was illegally evicted from the dwelling at 24 The Drive, Woodbrook Glen, Bray, Co. Wicklow on 4 August 2007.

2.The Respondent Landlord shall return all the Applicant Tenant’s personal property and possessions not later than 16 October 2007.

3.The Respondent Landlord shall pay the sum of €12,000 to the Applicant Tenant as compensation for the illegal eviction. A payment of €6,000 to be made not later than 12 November 2007 and the second payment paid not later than 12 December 2007.

4.The Applicant Tenant, if successful in her appeal to recover rent subsidy in the sum of €6,300 (approximately) from the Department of Family and Social Affairs, shall pay this sum to the Respondent Landlord, within 5 days of receipt of the subsidy.

This Order was made by the Private Residential Tenancies Board on 13 February 2008.

http://www.prtb.ie/2008%20Disputes/DO%20February/DO947_07.doc

Darragh29 · 09-10-2008 07:56PM

Seanies32 wrote: »

So how do you suggest people on welfare pay rent?

I suggest if house prices hadn't been artifically inflated to where they are now by property parasites, these people wouldn't be relying on welfare to pay the rent.

Darragh29 · 09-10-2008 07:58PM

emmagean wrote: »

ps: if you ever do feel like disclosing what line of business you are in I'm sure quite a few of us would be interested!!

When you know enough about the current subject matter to be able to know the difference between a business and a company, maybe I'll discuss that with you...

dr.bollocko · 09-10-2008 08:00PM

Property parasites did not artificially inflate house prices just magically by themselves you know. That's rather a simplistic way of putting it considering the number of factors involved in that monumental **** up.

Karoma · 09-10-2008 08:12PM

nedkelly & mountainyman: You're out of this thread. Cop on.

K-9 · 09-10-2008 08:27PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

I suggest if house prices hadn't been artifically inflated to where they are now by property parasites, these people wouldn't be relying on welfare to pay the rent.

Depends, in this particular case the HSE where paying her rent for 7/8 years and it appears they withdrew it for the last year for some reason.

If she'd got a job she wouldn't get her Rent paid. Considering we've had full employment for the last 5/6 years, the numbers claiming rent allowance has gone down from the 80's and 90's.

Anyway with the glut of properties for rental supply and some more to come yet, Rents will go down. Unfortunately the numbers claiming it will rise.

Many single parents and people on low incomes had the choice of getting back to work and getting a career, despite there being little money in it for them. This woman chose to stay at home and claim welfare.

ShooterSF · 09-10-2008 08:31PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

I suggest if house prices hadn't been artifically inflated to where they are now by property parasites, these people wouldn't be relying on welfare to pay the rent.

Well if there on benefit how the hell else would they pay for it? Are you suggesting that a person owning two houses is the reason another person can't get a job?

Dinter · 09-10-2008 08:48PM

I pay the government money on most of what I buy and pretty much all of what I earn. Some of this money goes directly to greedy, 18th century English, landlords (apparently) who in turn provide accommodation to the needy in return for MONEY.

However I also pay my car insurance company an inflated premium that takes into account their liability with regards to the MIBI. The MIBI compensate people who suffer loss or damage from uninsured and untraceable drivers. A lot of this money ends up in the pockets of mechanics (possibly greedy or English) in return for the services they provide which unbelievably they also want to be paid for.

Some of my taxes also pays for layabout, lip service, Marxists who burn brightly with a desire to cuddle the downtrodden and throw off the shackles of Capitalism as long as it happens after 2.00pm because there's something good on the tele then and as long as it won't end up affecting their social welfare handouts.

I fail to see where a moral high ground of such dizzying proportions springs from.

Darragh29 · 09-10-2008 09:20PM

Dinter wrote: »

I pay the government money on most of what I buy and pretty much all of what I earn. Some of this money goes directly to greedy, 18th century English, landlords (apparently) who in turn provide accommodation to the needy in return for MONEY.

Good lad. The reason people you call needy, require assistance with rent, is because their rental liability is artifically high. These people have worked out that with rent being their biggest outcome, and rent being unaffordable relative to what they could earn if they were working, they have made a decision that they are more secure on welfare, than busting their arse in the workplace and still being unable to cover rent. Rent is excessively high because property parasites have artifically driven up the cost of property. If property prices were more reasonable and therefore rent was more reasonable, people wouldn't be relying on state assistance just to keep a roof over their head.

Dinter wrote: »

However I also pay my car insurance company an inflated premium that takes into account their liability with regards to the MIBI. The MIBI compensate people who suffer loss or damage from uninsured and untraceable drivers. A lot of this money ends up in the pockets of mechanics (possibly greedy or English) in return for the services they provide which unbelievably they also want to be paid for.

You'll find that mechanics are not responsible for fu*king up our economy. Mechanic's haven't engineered artifically high property property prices and then take payments from the state on behalf of of people who are between the devil and the deep blue sea because they have been pushed out of the market by selfish parasites who were standing to the front back left and right of them when they were queueing for a house a few years ago.

Dinter · 09-10-2008 09:41PM

Oh gimme a break? Tbh you're still not understanding the contribution that stamp duty made to the exchequer during the property bubble. Buying a normal 2 bed apartment probably contributed more to the economy than your tax returns would in a year or two. Do you understand about supply and demand? The more properties for rent the less time rent can remain artificially inflated. Does that not make sense?

Seriously what bank in their right mind would give a mortgage to someone with a history of claiming rent allowance? None, is the short answer if there's anyone else available. Therefore people in this situation are never going to be in a position to buy. According to your rather naive posts it appears that their homelessness is a secondary consideration as long somebody else isn't profiting or should that be profiteering?

Also, you do understand that rent allowance isn't whatever figure a landlord might pluck out of the air? Any landlord that accepts rent allowance trades off rack renting people for the security of a steady income.

I admire your compassion and concern for others but it's seriously misguided. It's like Lassie grappling with Quantum physics to create some sort of black hole to suck the children out of the well instead of barking at a man with a ladder.

Kensington · 09-10-2008 09:57PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

I suggest if house prices hadn't been artifically inflated to where they are now by property parasites, these people wouldn't be relying on welfare to pay the rent.

You seem to have it in for landlords pure and simple and despite what anyone has said to you in this thread, nothing is going to change your view of them. However, trying to say that landlords are the cause of pushing up property prices? Will you come off it!!

What about all of the builders who were flogging off houses for maybe €100,000 more last year than they are this year? They're certainly not making any great loss on the prices they're selling them at now. But are they completely blameless for rapidly increasing property prices? Or is it entirely the fault of all the landlords who went and bought these properties?

Anyway, getting back to the topic - there are quite a few "howya's" out there who get their monthly rent allowance and all sorts of benefits and have no intention of EVER paying their own rent every month, regardless of what the property prices may be. Why would they ever pay their own way when their attitude is "Sure why would I go out and work when I can just get the social". It's a bit ridiculous trying to make out landlords are trying to get free money off the state. It's not quite as simple as saying the state are paying the mortgage for them on second or third properties. Most rental houses are not exactly respected by tenants. The landlord is responsible for repairs and upkeep. At the end of the day they're providing a service - no more than a retailer selling stuff to someone with a social welfare cheque. Why then, are they suddenly gougers?

Darragh29 · 09-10-2008 10:13PM

Kensington wrote: »

You seem to have it in for landlords pure and simple and despite what anyone has said to you in this thread, nothing is going to change your view of them. However, trying to say that landlords are the cause of pushing up property prices? Will you come off it!!

What about all of the builders who were flogging off houses for maybe €100,000 more last year than they are this year? They're certainly not making any great loss on the prices they're selling them at now. But are they completely blameless for rapidly increasing property prices? Or is it entirely the fault of all the landlords who went and bought these properties?

The reason the price of property went up to stupid levels was due to the number of people who were buying to invest. If investors were kept out of the market, we'd now have more people owning their own properties, working to achieve this and less people needing the state to pay their stupidly high monthly rent bill for them.

Funny to see the property parasites coming out of the woodwork now attempting to point the finger at builders, mechanics, insurance companies, everyone but themselves.

Kensington · 09-10-2008 10:18PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

The reason the price of property went up to stupid levels was due to the number of people who were buying to invest. If investors were kept out of the market, we'd now have more people owning their own properties, working to achieve this and less people needing the state to pay their stupidly high monthly rent bill for them.

Funny to see the property parasites coming out of the woodwork now attempting to point the finger at builders, mechanics, insurance companies, everyone but themselves.

Well I wouldn't consider myself a property parasite since I amn't a landlord, nor do I ever intend to be due to cases exactly like this one. All I'm saying is, you can't point the finger of blame for inflated property prices entirely at landlords.

Darragh29 · 09-10-2008 10:30PM

Kensington wrote: »

Well I wouldn't consider myself a property parasite since I amn't a landlord, nor do I ever intend to be due to cases exactly like this one. All I'm saying is, you can't point the finger of blame for inflated property prices entirely at landlords.

They weren't the only people with their snout in the trough, but they are the people I think are primarily responsible for the utter fu*king mess we are now in with the economy... Yeah, the government had a part to play, the builders, developers & legal profession had their snouts in there as well.

pandamoanium · 09-10-2008 10:36PM

Great thread OP! Good discussion going on..

Jesus, for the life of me though I cannot get over some of the most deluded and misguided notions of some people on here.. :rolleyes:

I have to say it's a sad day when somone can get away with not paying rent for what, say, 6 months, and are then awarded 12k for their trouble?

Yes, ok, so the landlord handled things badly, bagging their personal belongings and tossing them out is a big no-no, but you know what, so is living in a property, having a roof over your head and not paying a penny!

I note in the PRTB disclosure of the case that if the tenant successfully claims rental allowance arrears of E6,300 from the HSE they have reccommended that this be paid back to the landlord, is this likely to happen? I think not.

I for one would wonder why the HSE cut the tenant off their Rental Allowance. Without knowing the full circumstances it's very hard to say, however I would imagine that some knowledge came to light which would have indicated that the tenant was no longer entitled to it.

The HSE don't just cut people off because they feel it, there must have been a change in circumstances which brought this about.

As some others noted, there were two cars in th driveway - did one belong to a spouse whom was living with the tenant in question, could this be a possible reason why the HSE cut them off?

All the same, if the HSE cut her off she should have started looking for more suitable (i.e affordable) accommodation straight away. After 8 years in the premises I'm sure that the landlord would have been very amenable to reach some conciliation with the tenant, perhaps lower the rent, I'm sure both parties could have reached a compromise, however it sounds as though when the tenants HSE allowance was pulled they just couldn't be bother to find a resolution and just stopped paying.

6 months was more than adequate time to either locate a new affordable premises, or else seek employment so as to pay the rent themselves.

Where is she living now? If she's not getting an allowance from the HSE anymore how has she been been able to afford her current lodgings? Has she had to secure employment? Then again I'm sure that 12k will go a long way towards rent to her new landlord.. if she decides to pay it that is.

waxon-waxoff · 09-10-2008 11:09PM

RTE handled this wrong, making the faceless landlord the villain when the tenant was the original problem. The reporter was clearly on the tenants side and the report was unbalanced.

If i was evicted (legally or illegally) for not paying rent id just accept it and move on as i would know i was in the wrong. If the tenent has no money then how did they hire a lawyer to handle the case? Free legal aid im guessing, so you and i as taxpayers have picked up the tab for this

K-9 · 10-10-2008 12:15AM

Darragh29 wrote: »

Good lad. The reason people you call needy, require assistance with rent, is because their rental liability is artifically high. These people have worked out that with rent being their biggest outcome, and rent being unaffordable relative to what they could earn if they were working, they have made a decision that they are more secure on welfare, than busting their arse in the workplace and still being unable to cover rent.

Ah I see you didn't see my point that there has been full employment for 7/8 years up to this year. The vast majority of people didn't choose to claim rent allowance despite everybody paying the same rents.

Darragh29 wrote:

Rent is excessively high because property parasites have artifically driven up the cost of property. If property prices were more reasonable and therefore rent was more reasonable, people wouldn't be relying on state assistance just to keep a roof over their head.

And FTB's who had to have a house, farmers, land owners etc.
Again we have had the lowest ever amount of people claiming rent allowance in the last few years. Rents will fall in the next few years.

Kensington wrote: »

What about all of the builders who were flogging off houses for maybe €100,000 more last year than they are this year? They're certainly not making any great loss on the prices they're selling them at now. But are they completely blameless for rapidly increasing property prices? Or is it entirely the fault of all the landlords who went and bought these properties?

Well we'll see if they can afford that €100,00 hit in the next few months when bad debts begin to be written off.

Kensington wrote:

Anyway, getting back to the topic - there are quite a few "howya's" out there who get their monthly rent allowance and all sorts of benefits and have no intention of EVER paying their own rent every month, regardless of what the property prices may be. Why would they ever pay their own way when their attitude is "Sure why would I go out and work when I can just get the social". It's a bit ridiculous trying to make out landlords are trying to get free money off the state. It's not quite as simple as saying the state are paying the mortgage for them on second or third properties. Most rental houses are not exactly respected by tenants. The landlord is responsible for repairs and upkeep. At the end of the day they're providing a service - no more than a retailer selling stuff to someone with a social welfare cheque. Why then, are they suddenly gougers?

Indeed, it will not be the people who try their best to pay their rent that will benefit from this.

Tony Broke · 10-10-2008 12:44AM

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

RTE handled this wrong, making the faceless landlord the villain when the tenant was the original problem. The reporter was clearly on the tenants side and the report was unbalanced.

If i was evicted (legally or illegally) for not paying rent id just accept it and move on as i would know i was in the wrong. If the tenent has no money then how did they hire a lawyer to handle the case? Free legal aid im guessing, so you and i as taxpayers have picked up the tab for this

Exactly, No one is entitled to anything.

This sense of entitlement we have sickens me.

A growing number of people are wanting something for nothing, they are now just willing to sit back and let government take care of them to the grave like the travellers do.

Yes, the economy is ****, but if you had planned ahead somebit, people wouldnt be feeling the hit they are now.I'm not especially skilled or even terribly bright but I show up on time, work hard and well regardless of what I'm doing. Seems like some need to get out of the ivory towers for a spell.

Anway there once was a time when people were ashamed of being on welfare, or any form of public assistance for that matter..

What happenend?

Woman doesn't bother paying her rent... wins a court settlement

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