The fall of the Roman Empire

Cato wrote: »

Hello there, I have a great interest in classical history and have read allot of books on this matter many of them having different theory's as to why the roman empire collapsed.

Now when i say reason, i mean specific events tat took place that contributed to its demise, not rash generalizations like "ohh they got to greedy" etc.

So ive started this thread to start a discussion on your reasons why you think it collapsed.

I believe (contrary to quite a few historians) that its demise started with Sulla's coup and ocupation of Rome, altering completely how Rome operated politically like any tyrant only serving his interests and consolidating his power, Leading the way to more civil wars which was to last 100 years there abouts.civil wars left the political establishment in disarray and open to huge corruption leading to immense power struggles and squabbling culminating in ceasar coming to power and abolishing most of the reuplics tradition politics in favor of an empire/emporer.

I think the seed for roman civilizations decay was laid with Sulla's march on Rome, effectively ending the republics tradition of leadership, after this it was able to keep itself afloat by clever reforms politically and militarily but was eventually doomed.In order to avoid this i believe they should have introduced more strict political reforms in order to avoid huge corruption that was taking place, events could have turned around i dare say if Cato or even the moderates had their chance or been stricter during ceasars rebellion.

what are your views?

were they not also over-ran by tribes from the East and North?

Yes surely the new military tactics involving horses brought by the Huns from the East had a pretty significant impact. We're talking about the whole Empire here, not just Rome. The effect of the Huns and Germanic tribes was devestating to the Roman way of life.

Twas Aleric The Visigoth wot dunnit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaric_I

In reality the Roman Empire never "Fell".
We use Roman numerals still and our legal system originated in Rome.

As for the Germanic Goths and the Vandals etc...they became Romanised.

The German KAISER is EXACTLY how the Romans pronounced "Caesar"

"Hail Caesar" was exactly pronounced "Heil Kaiser".

Heil Kaiser is Pure Latin.

We live in a Graeco-Roman civilisation to this very day.

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Hi, interesting thread.
All things come to an end sooner or later and considering Rome lasted about 800 years, something had to finally give. The question is what exactly did bring down the Roman Empire in the end?
Rome was an economic power house, the developed world at the time. It was built on conquest and plunder. That conquest and expansion continued for another 150 years after the fall of the republic. In the early 2nd century AD in the time of Hadrian that expansion ended. The empire had huge wealth by then and was protected by a paid professional army from the many tribes outside its borders who wanted a slice of the action. Over the next 2 to 3 centuries the empire held its own through much internal conflict, it was pulled back together by the emperior Constantine in the 4th century. The lack of conquest and expansion possibly caused stagnation, but in the later half of the 4th century AD the Romans opened its borders a tribe known as the Goths who were refugees displaced by the Huns. Although Rome was a multi ethnic society, the Goths as a distinct ethnic group never settled effectively within the empire. In the early 5th century, the Goths, many of whom had served in the Roman army, armed themselves and went on the rampage within the empire, sacking towns and cities as they went. Their intention was not to destroy Rome, but to get a better deal for themselves.
In the year 410 AD Rome was sacked first time in over 800 years. It wasn't the end of the empire, but it was a mortal blow that the Rome could'nt recover from as the Goths would have taken most of the gold and other wealth as they moved west and settled in Spain. Rome had no longer the funds to pay the army who turned to self help, so the Roman people on the frontiers found themselves being plundered by the very people who used to protect them.
Although Rome was sacked twice again over the next 100 years, the Roman system survived until around 530 AD (not as an empire) at that time a great famine accured world wide possibly caused by a natural disaster and probably brought about the dark ages.

Belfast wrote: »

I suspect that climate change at the time was a contributory factor.

What climate change?

It is fashionable now to blame EVERYTHING and ANYTHING on "climate change".

"Lost my left sock......damn climate change."


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I am glad I found this thread - I watched The Fall of The Roman Empire last week and thought is was incredible - even rottontomatoes gave it 100%!!
But it has initiated an interest in the subject as well, in particular the creation of the Byzantine Empire . . .

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The climate chilled by 1 degree around the 5th Century allowing the Vandals cross the Rhine at Moganticum (Mainz), who subsequently sacked Rome (410) and then settled in Africa (modern day Tunisia). Settling in Africa was a big disaster, Rome got most of its grain from Africa.

I read somewhere that the word "Berber" comes from the word "Barbarian" and that the Berbers are,or were originally,the descendants of the German Vandals.

Not sure if there is any truth in that though.

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To get back to the original question, perhaps the roman banking system collapsed!

Lead pipes as in water contamination?
Thats a good one where did you get it from mate?

With the world's economic system falling in on our heads right now it must have felt like that in Rome around the 5th century!

An economic empire is collapsing all around us it seems.

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