Is hunting wrong?

BroomBurner · 29-09-2008 03:07PM

raido9 wrote: »

Do you have a problem with people who go fishing for the fun of it?

Do you have a problem with killing annoying bugs/insects/rodents in your house?

People that fish for fun put the fish back (generally)

People that fish for food, eat what they catch.

Do I have a problem with mass fishing? Yes, I do. Large trawler nets and massive fishing boats catch all without even considering whether they can sell it. If something unsaleble, such as a turtle, gets caught in the net, they just leave it to die.

As for bugs, insects, etc that come in to my home, I would either try to put them out, or kill them. I don't, however, kill them when I am in their home, which is The Outdoors.

I think, Radio9, you have FAILED to understand the difference between killing an insect in your home (for the very excellent reason of protecting food, etc.) and killing insects for sport. Which, again, seeing as I am against hunting for sport, I would be against this.

Nehaxak · 29-09-2008 03:09PM

If I lived "down the country" type of place rather than here in Ballymun, I'd sure as hell take up hunting and enjoy it too.
Not even allowed throw bottles at cops here anymore

BroomBurner · 29-09-2008 03:09PM

Mordeth wrote: »

yes they do, chimpanzee's murder and have great fun doing so.

For a start, you can not possibly say that for definite, as specialist biologist and behavioural scientists wouldn't even say that for definite. In fact, the thinking on it is that they possibly murder other chimps to ensure they have breeding rights, etc. I'd suggest you read up more on the topic before deciding that you know what animals do for kicks.

mountain · 29-09-2008 03:10PM

Killing for the sake of killing is wrong,
boasting about it, and taking photos of it is even worse.

I dont believe that on the hunting forum there is a thread that allows people to do this.

thelordofcheese · 29-09-2008 03:12PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Not for fun they don't.

I'd like to introduce you to an animal that does just that. It's called a cat.

We murdered our way to the top of the evolutionary ladder, the only reason we invent justifications for doing it now is because we're trying to pretend we're civilised.

WindSock · 29-09-2008 03:12PM

I hunted before. I wasn't hunting because I needed food or clothing. I hunted an animal that was not native and seen as a pest. Nevertheless, culling the animal was not my primary reason for shooting it. I did it for the thrill. I had never shot and killed something before. I have now, and I don't expect I will do it again. I think I had more fun actually walking around at night time in a forest with a gun than the actual killing bit.

Ross_Mahon · 29-09-2008 03:14PM

Hunting has be done for hundreds of years, its alright once its an animal you will eat and its not going extinct.

BroomBurner · 29-09-2008 03:18PM

thelordofcheese wrote: »

I'd like to introduce you to an animal that does just that. It's called a cat.

We murdered our way to the top of the evolutionary ladder, the only reason we invent justifications for doing it now is because we're trying to pretend we're civilised.

Cats, like humans I suppose, hunted for food before they became domesticated. The instinct is still there though, so even though it appears to us that the cat is hunting for fun, it is actually just acting out it's instincts.

Before any pro-hunting-for-fun people use this as a reason why hunting for entertainment is a good thing, cats brains are infinitely smaller than ours and do not have the same grasp of life as humans, i.e. empathy for others, ideas of time and what time is, etc. Humans that hunt for sport are shamefull, self-centred, short-minded sociopaths.

thelordofcheese · 29-09-2008 03:21PM

BroomBurner wrote: »

Cats, like humans I suppose, hunted for food before they became domesticated. The instinct is still there though, so even though it appears to us that the cat is hunting for fun, it is actually just acting out it's instincts.

Before any pro-hunting-for-fun people use this as a reason why hunting for entertainment is a good thing, cats brains are infinitely smaller than ours and do not have the same grasp of life as humans, i.e. empathy for others, ideas of time and what time is, etc. Humans that hunt for sport are shamefull, self-centred, short-minded sociopaths.

I think i'm going to go hunting today; my prey shall be the common or garden High Horse.

I hope you brought a helmet and the appropriate safety gear before you saddled up.

biko · 29-09-2008 03:21PM

Hunting for food has become so much easier with the introduction of

supermarkets

.

staker · 29-09-2008 03:24PM

I've nothing against hunting,even go coursing myself now and again.
Once it's on a level playing field i.e the hare,fish,deer etc is in his own natural habitat open to his own means of escape it's fine by me..

raido9 · 29-09-2008 03:24PM

BroomBurner wrote: »

People that fish for fun put the fish back (generally)

So its ok to stick a hook into a fish as long as you throw it back?

BroomBurner wrote: »

As for bugs, insects, etc that come in to my home, I would either try to put them out, or kill them. I don't, however, kill them when I am in their home, which is The Outdoors.

So now you are using location as justification for killing an animal?

BroomBurner wrote: »

I think, Radio9, you have FAILED to understand the difference between killing an insect in your home (for the very excellent reason of protecting food, etc.) and killing insects for sport. Which, again, seeing as I am against hunting for sport, I would be against this.

No, BroomBurner, I did not fail to understand the difference. I just find it interesting about your very excellent reasons for when it is ok or not to kill animals.

javaboy · 29-09-2008 03:24PM

biko wrote: »

Hunting for food has become so much easier with the introduction of
supermarkets
.

Not when they keep changing the aisles around like in Dunnes. I know it's all psychology to get you to see different products and make you go deeper into the shop just for bread and milk but it's still annoying. :mad:

javaboy · 29-09-2008 03:27PM

staker wrote: »

I've nothing against hunting,even go coursing myself now and again.
Once it's on a level playing field i.e the hare,fish,deer etc is in his own natural habitat open to his own means of escape it's fine by me..

Level playing field? That's just ridiculous. How is it a level playing field? Unless you're hunting with Dick Cheney, you're never actually in any danger of death unlike the animal.

Also I think you can decide not to partake in the hunt. Can the animal?

I'm not even rabidly anti-hunting but that kind of rubbish just irks me. Level playing field. :rolleyes:

stevoman · 29-09-2008 03:27PM

tallaght01 wrote: »

Hunting really makes me sick. It's really depraved. But any people I've ever spoken to who've been involved in hunting, have justified it to themselves with all kinds of silly reasons. There's just no point in arguing with them. They know it's wrong, but they still like doing it, so it's a circular argument.

Keyboard POO POO.

Hunting is fine once the quarry is eaten or if there is a genuine reason to kill vermin such as they are causing havoc to your livestock.

I hunt and fish and eat everything i shoot and catch. How is that curel or disgusting. its been that way for himans for thousands of years.

i have to lauph at some of the responses i get off some people. "Hunting? God your so cruel? I'l have a steak please, medium to rare"

javaboy · 29-09-2008 03:30PM

stevoman wrote: »

Keyboard POO POO.

Hunting is fine once the quarry is eaten or if there is a genuine reason to kill vermin such as they are causing havoc to your livestock.

I hunt and fish and eat everything i shoot and catch. How is that curel or disgusting. its been that way for himans for thousands of years.

i have to lauph at some of the responses i get off some people. "Hunting? God your so cruel? I'l have a steak please, medium to rare"

Have you never come across a fellow hunter who doesn't eat everything they catch or have some valid reason for hunting?

I'm not even remotely involved in hunting and don't move in the same circles but even I've come across people who will openly admit that they don't just hunt for food or for genuine population control purposes.

I don't think anyone sensible who eats meat will really argue against someone hunting for food using methods designed to kill quickly.

BroomBurner · 29-09-2008 03:31PM

raido9 wrote: »

No, BroomBurner, I did not fail to understand the difference. I just find it interesting about your very excellent reasons for when it is ok or not to kill animals.

Are you a vegetarian/vegan? Have you ever killed an insect that happened to hit your windsheild? Have you ever used insect repellent on holiday? Do you use cleanser/moisturiser/etc. that include fish oils? Do you eat out in restaurants? Do you eat sweets?

You're living in a dream world if you think you can live your life not killing one single animal, whatever the cause.

javaboy · 29-09-2008 03:35PM

BroomBurner wrote: »

Have you ever killed an insect that happened to hit your windsheild?

Ah but you might be doing the animal kingdom a favour in the long term:
http://www.acfnewsource.org/science/splat_science.html

Apparently they want people to count the number of dead insects on their windshield as a means of auditing insect populations. They believe it might be affecting bird populations.

I'm going out for a drive to help save the environment!

stevoman · 29-09-2008 04:03PM

javaboy wrote: »

Have you never come across a fellow hunter who doesn't eat everything they catch or have some valid reason for hunting?

I'm not even remotely involved in hunting and don't move in the same circles but even I've come across people who will openly admit that they don't just hunt for food or for genuine population control purposes.

I don't think anyone sensible who eats meat will really argue against someone hunting for food using methods designed to kill quickly.

To be honest in any cirle of people that i know hunt or hunt with i can safely say that i do not know anyone that just goes out and kills for pure pleasure. Anyone i know who hunts game eats it and if they have have a little extra it will be given to somewhon who will eat it and anyone i know who hunts vermin does so for a reason or is asked to hunt the vermin by a landowner.

I do think the term "hunting" is too broad a topic to be deabted as hunting is in so many different shapes and forms and to be debated reasonably it should be broken into certain aspects and taken from there.

anti-venom · 29-09-2008 04:14PM

Hunting for food is fine as long as there is a need to hunt for food. However, there is no need to hunt for food in this country or any western country. If you can afford a box of cartridges you can afford to eat. This nonsense of hunting for food is just a weak attempt to justify an entirely unneccessary and barbaric practise.

I certainly don't see that hunters have more respect for the countryside than any other people. Blasting pellets into harmless birds, rabbits etc is no means of 'respecting' the countryside.

Dinter · 29-09-2008 04:20PM

anti-venom wrote: »

However, there is no need to hunt for food in this country or any western country. If you can afford a box of cartridges you can afford to eat. This nonsense of hunting for food is just a weak attempt to justify an entirely unneccessary and barbaric practise.

I think it's meant more that you're not just leaving the carcass to rot. You're eating it instead.

Tbh in Western Europe it's man's responsibility to keep other species in check. We've evolved into the position of top predator by virtue of exterminating any other challengers. Without our gun loving lobby we'd be overrun by vermin.

fits · 29-09-2008 04:22PM

javaboy wrote: »

I'm going out for a drive to help save the environment!

Which kind of sums up the sense of this whole argument tbh.

javaboy · 29-09-2008 04:24PM

anti-venom wrote: »

Hunting for food is fine as long as there is a need to hunt for food. However, there is no need to hunt for food in this country or any western country. If you can afford a box of cartridges you can afford to eat. This nonsense of hunting for food is just a weak attempt to justify an entirely unneccessary and barbaric practise.

I certainly don't see that hunters have more respect for the countryside than any other people. Blasting pellets into harmless birds, rabbits etc is no means of 'respecting' the countryside.

Hunting isn't always barbaric though. In many ways it's far more ideal than the slaughterhouse system. Generally people shoot to kill.

The problem I'd have is the people who are doing it just for kicks and lying about doing it for a legitimate reason.

Vegeta · 29-09-2008 04:28PM

anti-venom wrote: »

Hunting for food is fine as long as there is a need to hunt for food. However, there is no need to hunt for food in this country or any western country. If you can afford a box of cartridges you can afford to eat. This nonsense of hunting for food is just a weak attempt to justify an entirely unneccessary and barbaric practise.

So would you rather we support mass farming practices by buying meat from animals which have suffered a much worse standard of life than anything I hunt and eat myself?

Not to mention the effects of that type of farming on the environment.

I certainly don't see that hunters have more respect for the countryside than any other people. Blasting pellets into harmless birds, rabbits etc is no means of 'respecting' the countryside.

With logic like above I don't find it hard to imagine your poor vision.

stevoman · 29-09-2008 04:29PM

anti-venom wrote: »

Hunting for food is fine as long as there is a need to hunt for food. However, there is no need to hunt for food in this country or any western country. If you can afford a box of cartridges you can afford to eat. This nonsense of hunting for food is just a weak attempt to justify an entirely unneccessary and barbaric practise.

So if a man wants to eat a pheasent or a rabbit you would rather see them farmed and in captive being bred solely for their size and awaiting a certain death and killed en masse?

ScumLord · 29-09-2008 04:30PM

Do people honestly expect humans to just step aside and expect nature to just run fine without us?

We are a part of the ecosystem as influential as the weather at this stage.

I think hunting is fine, the fact is most hunters are more clued into nature in general than any vegan or city dwelling eco warrior could ever be. Hunting encourages a bond with nature more than anything.

Cunning · 29-09-2008 04:30PM

theres a BIG diff between attitudes of city folk and county/farming folk.
i have friends from the city, and i'm a farmer, the sight of a cow giving birth, especially when it requires assistance, and more especially when it requires a vet (caesarean section) is pretty stomach turning for my friends but is quite normal for me and thoose like me.

many people have been reared in a sterile environment, and i have even met people who have difficulty handeling raw meat or gutting a fish.
for theese people hunting seems particularly vile.

i dont hunt myself, but i dont have a problem with the hunt.

as an aside, i think people on the anti hunting agenda would be far better off campaigning for human rights.
and as far as killing for sport is concerned, many animals kill for what seems to be sport,

also if you tally the lambs killed each year by foxes i'm confident it would overshadow the number of foxes kill by man, (including roadkill, hunting, trapping, shooting, poisoning etc etc etc)

javaboy · 29-09-2008 04:37PM

Cunning wrote: »

as an aside, i think people on the anti hunting agenda would be far better off campaigning for human rights.

Why? Should people only be able to complain about the one biggest issue at any one time? Just because there are worse things going on, it doesn't mean people can't protest or complain about other things.

I mean where would Liveline be with that attitude?

DonJose · 29-09-2008 04:37PM

Mordeth wrote: »

in africa you can kill a woman who names a teacher teddy bear mohhamed.

Fixed your post

anti-venom · 29-09-2008 04:47PM

Vegata..........I wonder who shows more respect for the countryside and it's wildlife; the hunter who kills and maims birds and animals or birdwatchers, hikers etc who manage to enjoy the countryside without feeling the need to slaughter something?

Your attempt to link the hunting of wildlife for food with the meat industry is well off the mark. The two are incomparable. The amount of meat obtained through hunting is only a piss in the ocean compared to the amount of meat obtained from agriculture.

I can't figure out how you managed to extrapolate from my previous post that I would find the meat industry a more acceptable means of obtaining meat. Battery farming is a very distasteful means of treating animals but that in no way justifies hunting. I don't see how it does, quite frankly.

Is hunting wrong?

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