Chemical Castration for sex offenders in Poland, introduce it here in Ireland?

gurramok · 26-09-2008 12:37PM #1

Should we do the same?

About time we should but what would the liberal PC brigade think!:rolleyes:

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/chemical-castration-for-sex-offenders--in-poland-1482565.html

Indo wrote:

Chemical castration for sex offenders in Poland

Poland, enraged by a shocking case of incest, is set to become the first country in the European Union to give judges the right to impose chemical castration on convicted paedophiles.

Although the plan has drawn overwhelming public support -- 84pc of Poles approve, according to a survey conducted for 'Dziennik' newspaper -- it has also sparked criticism from liberal politicians and doctors who argue that forced castration violates fundamental human rights and debases the medical profession.

"I don't think you can call such individuals -- such creatures -- human beings," said Donald Tusk, the Polish prime minister, in an emotional outburst after the incest case came to light. "Therefore I don't think you can talk about human rights in such a case."

A 45-year-old man was arrested in Poland a fortnight ago after being accused of fathering two children by his young daughter; the Polish press compared it with the case of Josef Fritzl, the Austrian who kept his daughter prisoner for two decades, abusing her and creating a secret family.

Fury

The fury of the prime minister is now being translated into law. The Health and Justice ministries have been working on a draft that is likely to be presented to cabinet as early as next month. All the indications are that the law will be passed by parliament where there is a clear majority for punitive castration.

Britain is to offer testosterone-reducing medication to sexual offenders before they are freed from jail. Germany has a similar scheme and connects the medication to therapy: the offender has to volunteer for both courses of treatment.

"This isn't part of the punishment, but aims to reduce the likelihood that they will need to be punished again," said Professor Don Grubin, a Newcastle university criminal psychiatrist, involved in co-ordinating the British scheme.

But the government of Mr Tusk -- until now viewed as much more socially liberal than his predecessor, Jaroslaw Kaczynski -- is determined to make the administration of libido-lowering drugs compulsory if there is a risk of sexual offences being repeated.

Judges, after consulting doctors, will make it part of their sentencing.

"I want Poland to have the strictest possible legislation against criminals who rape children, it is as simple as that," said Mr Tusk.

ejmaztec · 26-09-2008 12:40PM

Why waste money on chemicals when a pair of garden-shears is perfectly adequate for the purpose?

chin_grin · 26-09-2008 12:41PM

"chemical castration"? Nope. This way would be far more fitting.

http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVK3_qIJxw20

seamus · 26-09-2008 12:41PM

Hard cases make bad laws.

The very fact that Poland's PM publicly claims that the guy is subhuman, just shows how much of a moron he is.

Chemical castration doesn't deter paedophiles and there's no proof that it does.

Chemical castration of "sex offenders" is like prescribing amputation for everyone convicted of "stealing". It's far too vague and open to abuse & mistake.

kaimera · 26-09-2008 12:42PM

do we have that many polish sex offenders here ?

Silenceisbliss · 26-09-2008 12:44PM

No, it will violate their human rights!

they violated someone elses human rights....i say ejmaztek has the right idea...garden shears!

sorry snyper

Gummy Panda · 26-09-2008 12:47PM

chin_grin wrote: »

"chemical castration"? Nope. This way would be far more fitting.

http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVK3_qIJxw20

Never looking at that link again.

chin_grin · 26-09-2008 12:49PM

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Never looking at that link again.

Ah yeah, sorry should have warned people about that!

Turd Ferguson · 26-09-2008 12:49PM

What will they do with all the "medical waste" they remove?

DIBBS

Karl Hungus · 26-09-2008 12:50PM

seamus wrote: »

Chemical castration of "sex offenders" is like prescribing amputation for everyone convicted of "stealing". It's far too vague and open to abuse & mistake.

I was just about to come in here and say "Lets cut off people's hands for stealing too!" but you beat me too it.

People are far too quick to support ideas like this, and as much as a crime like paedophilia is an emotive subject, we really need to take a step back from this.

chin_grin · 26-09-2008 12:51PM

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

What will they do with all the "medical waste" they remove?

DIBBS

Mmmyep, I'd swim in it just to see if I come out like this http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/125449054_ef4b95cbc8.jpg?v=0.

TripleAce · 26-09-2008 12:53PM

Great idea - scissors would do too though.

Silenceisbliss · 26-09-2008 12:54PM

Karl Hungus wrote: »

I was just about to come in here and say "Lets cut off people's hands for stealing too!" but you beat me too it.

People are far too quick to support ideas like this, and as much as a crime like paedophilia is an emotive subject, we really need to take a step back from this.

Karl.....

stop being so serious and sensible omg! it's AH

kaimera · 26-09-2008 12:57PM

Karl Hungus wrote: »

I was just about to come in here and say "Lets cut off people's hands for stealing too!" but you beat me too it.

People are far too quick to support ideas like this, and as much as a crime like paedophilia is an emotive subject, we really need to take a step back from this.

and do what Karl?

is there anything that has been proven to deter the sick ****s? I actually don't know, wondering if there is

Gummy Panda · 26-09-2008 12:58PM

How does it work?

do they give you a drug and thats it no more sex or is it a prescription you have to regularly take?

Also if it just stops errections, isn't most of child abuse cases not full sex but fondling and such?

Jumpy · 26-09-2008 01:01PM

Gummy Panda wrote: »

How does it work?

do they give you a drug and thats it no more sex or is it a prescription you have to regularly take?

Also if it just stops errections, isn't most of child abuse cases not full sex but fondling and such?

I think it will kill the sexual desire as well. Sort of like a testicle guillotine in chemical form I guess.

Karl Hungus · 26-09-2008 01:02PM

Silenceisbliss wrote: »

Karl.....

stop being so serious and sensible omg! it's AH

I'm not being serious or sensible, I just have a very refined and high brow sense of humour that has obviously gone over your head.

mareczku · 26-09-2008 01:04PM

Seamus I don't agree.

Fistly you are not cutting any bits off. The purpose of this is to lower the testoserome level (kinda clockwork orange if you know what I mean) simply put its a sexual urge produced by chemicals if you remove the chemicals we will reduce the urge.

The day a person violates a child is, in my opinion, the day they lose their rights if this prevents children from the same in the future this can only be good.

This is already in place and functioning in Germany and I think it is something that the EU should consider (especially Belgium)

Mark

seamus wrote: »

Hard cases make bad laws.

The very fact that Poland's PM publicly claims that the guy is subhuman, just shows how much of a moron he is.

Chemical castration doesn't deter paedophiles and there's no proof that it does.

Chemical castration of "sex offenders" is like prescribing amputation for everyone convicted of "stealing". It's far too vague and open to abuse & mistake.

Robbo · 26-09-2008 01:04PM

gurramok wrote: »

Should we do the same?

About time we should but what would the liberal PC brigade think!:rolleyes:

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/chemical-castration-for-sex-offenders--in-poland-1482565.html

Good old AH, where you can resurrect the policies of the third Reich by pretending to stick it to the "liberal PC brigade".

Now that property's gone belly up, have you found some new windmills to tilt at?

seamus · 26-09-2008 01:09PM

Gummy Panda wrote: »

How does it work?

do they give you a drug and thats it no more sex or is it a prescription you have to regularly take?

It's a prescriptive drug. And it doesn't really work. Results have varied dramatically.

The primary problem is that it only works effectively for people who want it to. If someone doesn't see the wrong/harm in fondling young boys, then the drugs may reduce their sex drive, but it can't remove the desire.

Even a dog without balls will still hump your leg. Just not as frequently.

For people who want to not go near children, it's an aid - a reduction in sexual drive will make you less likely to want to engage in sexual activities. There have been a number of cases of "cured" people, who returned to the community, managed to function normally in and around other families and their children, stuck to their medication, yet still managed to get themselves into trouble.

The problem is as much about people's sexual attitude and maturity as it is about their sexual desires.

The day a person violates a child is, in my opinion, the day they lose their rights if this prevents children from the same in the future this can only be good.

As much as our outrage politics like us to think that all children are shining stars in the heavens, simple fact is that one person's rights to not outweigh another's. It's very natural to think that someone who hurts a child is more of a monster than someone who hurts an adult, but it's hypocritical to say that everyone is equal, except if they're children, at which point they're more important.

We're very deeply set in the dark ages of this whole problem. We haven't a clue how to deal with it, haven't a clue what's an appropriate response, yet we seem to think that it's OK to throw out everything which makes us a civilised society when we have to deal with it.

KnifeWRENCH · 26-09-2008 01:10PM

I'm in two minds about this one: a part of me thinks "Yeah, serves the bastards right". But then again, as seamus already said, "it's open to abuse and mistake."

So at the moment, I am firmly in the "Atari Jaguar" camp.

ejmaztec · 26-09-2008 01:11PM

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

What will they do with all the "medical waste" they remove?

DIBBS

Big Mac value meal.

gurramok · 26-09-2008 01:27PM

Robbo wrote: »

Good old AH, where you can resurrect the policies of the third Reich by pretending to stick it to the "liberal PC brigade".

Now that property's gone belly up, have you found some new windmills to tilt at?

It's working in Germany(not Third Reich

) already so why not try it here?

Plenty of windmills to tilt at, there's a storm coming

Acacia · 26-09-2008 01:30PM

Robbo wrote: »

Good old AH, where you can resurrect the policies of the third Reich by pretending to stick it to the "liberal PC brigade".

Now that property's gone belly up, have you found some new windmills to tilt at?

Agreed. If you don't agree with taking away human rights in the name of 'the greater good' than you're just a tree-hugging, PC, Liberal.

The whole castration thing seems a bit extreme for me. Never mind the third reich , it's positively medieval.

Dudess · 26-09-2008 01:34PM

Acacia wrote: »

Agreed. If you don't agree with taking away human rights in the name of 'the greater good' than you're just a tree-hugging, PC, Liberal.

Don't forget pinko looney leftie bleeding heart do gooder commie nazi.

seamus wrote: »

the drugs may reduce their sex drive, but it can't remove the desire.

Inextricably linked though, nay?

I actually don't see a huge problem with it.

Robbo · 26-09-2008 01:41PM

gurramok wrote: »

It's working in Germany(not Third Reich ) already so why not try it here?

Plenty of windmills to tilt at, there's a storm coming

Do we have a worse rate of sexual offences than Germany? Personally, if we were to co-opt any of their laws, I'd be looking for an increase in motorway speed limits, but that's just my preference and it's not as emotive as yours.

Perhaps we could start at actually making sex offenders complete mandatory treatment programmes and then work up towards your rabble friendly "hang-em, flog-em" policy?

Dyr · 26-09-2008 01:42PM

The problem with all permanant punishments is what happens if you get some poor sod whos wrongly convicted?

Other than that im all for it, and if turns out the problems in their head rather than their sack, we remove that out too :pac:

seamus · 26-09-2008 01:43PM

Dudess wrote: »

Inextricably linked though, nay?

Not necessarily. For many people, rapists in particular, the crime has less to do with actual sexual desire and more to do other chemical kicks they get from the crime.

Physically castrated rapists have reoffended. Again and again.

It's a symptom of our culture that we want to believe that there is one cause to these crimes and therefore a simple fix. Most crimes committed directly against another human being (as opposed to say, shoplifting) are complex and are the product of a large number of factors. Removing one of these factors will often not prevent the crime (or a similar one) from reoccuring.

Darragh29 · 26-09-2008 01:47PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

Why waste money on chemicals when a pair of garden-shears is perfectly adequate for the purpose?

+1, mechanical castration is the way to go...

Loose Lips · 26-09-2008 01:55PM

seamus wrote: »

It's a prescriptive drug. And it doesn't really work. Results have varied dramatically.

The primary problem is that it only works effectively for people who want it to. If someone doesn't see the wrong/harm in fondling young boys, then the drugs may reduce their sex drive, but it can't remove the desire.

Even a dog without balls will still hump your leg. Just not as frequently.

For people who want to not go near children, it's an aid - a reduction in sexual drive will make you less likely to want to engage in sexual activities. There have been a number of cases of "cured" people, who returned to the community, managed to function normally in and around other families and their children, stuck to their medication, yet still managed to get themselves into trouble.

The problem is as much about people's sexual attitude and maturity as it is about their sexual desires.

As much as our outrage politics like us to think that all children are shining stars in the heavens, simple fact is that one person's rights to not outweigh another's. It's very natural to think that someone who hurts a child is more of a monster than someone who hurts an adult, but it's hypocritical to say that everyone is equal, except if they're children, at which point they're more important.

We're very deeply set in the dark ages of this whole problem. We haven't a clue how to deal with it, haven't a clue what's an appropriate response, yet we seem to think that it's OK to throw out everything which makes us a civilised society when we have to deal with it.

Seamus: This is indeed a thorny issue and a solution to it is not immediately obvious. The sad fact is that there are always going to be a small number of people in the world who are, for want of a better word, monsters. We need to ensure that these 'monsters' are prevented from doing harm, but we also seem to want to avoid doing anything as bad as the 'monsters' themselves.

A certain amount of vanity appears to be at work in us here. Just like you can't make an omlette without breaking some eggs, you can't take out the trash without getting your hands dirty.

God bless

Silenceisbliss · 26-09-2008 01:56PM

Karl Hungus wrote: »

I'm not being serious or sensible, I just have a very refined and high brow sense of humour that has obviously gone over your head.

the one of the lamest and most egoistical things ive heard all day....hmmm:rolleyes:

Chemical Castration for sex offenders in Poland, introduce it here in Ireland?

Chemical Castration for sex offenders in Poland, introduce it here in Ireland? 131 votes

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