Gracie jiujitsu

David Jones · 15-09-2008 07:28PM

I dont think they will be issuing the Gracie Challenge for 10k euro any time soon.

dlofnep · 15-09-2008 08:08PM

That's disgusting that someone so unqualified can charge those prices. I hate scumbags like that exploting the working man.

r_obric · 15-09-2008 08:23PM

i wonder is he paying to use the name? why are there none of the big academys in england listed?

Roper · 15-09-2008 10:34PM

I'm torn between being really, really annoyed by this, and knowing that it was absolutely inevitable anyway so why be bothered.

For anyone pissed at the gracies, from their point of view it was probably only a matter of time before it happened so why not make it them who gets guys to pay lots of money for 10 days training, and probably $$$ of yearly renewal fees after that.

I don't feel sorry for anyone who goes on this course for that money. If they're wealthy enough to afford that sort of price for training then they're welcome to it.

Remember as well that this guy does it purely for the money, you and me, we do it for the love of the game... no, that didn't make me feel better either. But it should!

dlofnep · 15-09-2008 11:06PM

But what about people who don't know any better Roper?

spiral · 15-09-2008 11:06PM

in fairness Rorion is a different kettle of fish to the rest

Maldini2706 · 16-09-2008 01:48AM

This lad should get a Dojo invasion

Get a load of lads to go down and school him badly in front of his students.

Nothingcompares · 16-09-2008 09:18AM

why? he's not making any false claims or promises (any more so than other martial arts clubs). He's probably just not as good at bjj as other people in Dublin, it seems unlikely he's a better coach but we've no way of telling.

dasmoose · 16-09-2008 10:36AM

Nothingcompares wrote: »

why? he's not making any false claims or promises (any more so than other martial arts clubs). He's probably just not as good at bjj as other people in Dublin, it seems unlikely he's a better coach but we've no way of telling.

I'm not necessarily agreeing that there should be some kind of dojo storming, but this is exactly the sort of thing we need to try and avoid in BJJ.

An unqualified* instructor charging big bucks and spouting a bunch of rhetoric about "sport bjj" to try and make his teaching seem more "for the street" than the numerous other gyms in dublin is really bad for the art.

You know as well as I do that someone who's never trained has no clue what the difference is between wing chun and BJJ, never mind gracie combatives and BJJ. I'm less irritated about Patrick wasting a few thousand dollars and more about all the lads who want to learn BJJ and see one of his ads.

*(I don't care how perfectly he can replicate the techniques on an unresisting opponent, we all know that the whole reason BJJ is so effective is the focus on sparring)

Nothingcompares · 16-09-2008 04:29PM

dasmoose wrote: »

*(I don't care how perfectly he can replicate the techniques on an unresisting opponent, we all know that the whole reason BJJ is so effective is the focus on sparring)

Again in a similar vein to the other MMA shenanigans thread I don't really mind if this tarnishes the man on the streets view of BJJ. If you allow yourself to be conned it's your own fault. Again, I speak from point of view of a hobbyist, I'm sure someone who makes a living out of either sports would have a different view.

I'm sure curious with regard to the last part - if the effectiveness of jitz lies in the focus on sparring, what difference does the technical/experience level of the coach make? If the instructor, shows 2 techniques, arm bar from guard and a sweep for example, and he lets the lads spar does it really matter if he's a guy with 10 weeks training or 10 years? I think the best thing about the sport is the emphasis on finding your own way and not just copying. Perhaps you mean this class won't involve any sparring and will all just be dead repetitions of the techniques. In that case I'd certainly agree with you.

Maldini2706 · 17-09-2008 05:12AM

Nothingcompares wrote: »

why? he's not making any false claims or promises (any more so than other martial arts clubs). He's probably just not as good at bjj as other people in Dublin, it seems unlikely he's a better coach but we've no way of telling.

I was kind of half-joking about the dojo-invasion, but it is the sort of thing the Gracies would have done way back when.

Nothingcompares wrote: »

Again in a similar vein to the other MMA shenanigans thread I don't really mind if this tarnishes the man on the streets view of BJJ. If you allow yourself to be conned it's your own fault. Again, I speak from point of view of a hobbyist, I'm sure someone who makes a living out of either sports would have a different view.

I'm sure curious with regard to the last part - if the effectiveness of jitz lies in the focus on sparring, what difference does the technical/experience level of the coach make? If the instructor, shows 2 techniques, arm bar from guard and a sweep for example, and he lets the lads spar does it really matter if he's a guy with 10 weeks training or 10 years? I think the best thing about the sport is the emphasis on finding your own way and not just copying. Perhaps you mean this class won't involve any sparring and will all just be dead repetitions of the techniques. In that case I'd certainly agree with you.

The way I look at it, this guy is making out like his stuff is better than other "courses" because the Gracie name is attached. He's more or less taking money from people who have spent years (and no doubt a **** load of their own cash) training and setting up gyms.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 17-09-2008 07:29AM

Nothingcompares wrote: »

For those not bothered reading ^

.

Damn you, you made me go back and read it - after deciding there was way too much for my attention span (about that of a goldfish's).

Roper · 17-09-2008 09:04AM

dlofnep wrote: »

But what about people who don't know any better Roper?

I can't speak for the entire population but I always examine my options before parting with my hard earned cash. If someone can't do a simple search or ask a few questions, or if they're not bothered to do it then I have no sympathy for them really. After that, like it or not the place might just suit other people.

yomchi · 17-09-2008 09:25AM

I found this in my inbox this morning:

Greetings,

My name is Bernardo Campbell and I am a Designated Area Representative for the World Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Association. The WBJJA is looking forward to expand its representation in Ireland. I would like to extend a special offer to you join our Distance Course and become a Certified BJJ Instructor.

I would be able to give you a special discount for the Level 1 program with the intention to help you getting started and confident that you will be amazed by our course and will stick with it!
So, to you access the 135 techniques course, which is the white belt material in order to be promoted to the blue belt, it will only cost USD 450! See special conditions below.

I am also attaching the documents that describe the regular cost and procedures for your review.

The WBJJA has already 53 members, which 22 are in the process of being certified instructors and 31 are Distance Learners that are not being endorsed to teach BJJ - They are martial arts lovers and are only learning a new discipline.

Please visit our BLOG to see what has been done so far by the WBJJA at http://blog.wbjja.com - We have more videos and real fight footage in our certification webpage. Enjoy!

If you decide to take this opportunity, please contact me as soon as possible and let me know if you have any questions.

Special Conditions:

1. Welcome gifts NOT included (Gi + T-shirt);
2. Free 10 student's start-up kits NOT included;
3. Tuition must be paid in no more than 2 payments;
4. Promotion valid until September 24th, 2008;
5. Discount does NOT apply for the Levels 2, 3 and 4.

Best regards,

Bernardo Boa Nova Campbell
Designated Area Representative
World BJJ Association
www.wbjja.com

W O R L D B J J A S S O C I A T I O N
- THE GENTLE ART TAKEN SERIOUSLY -

So now there's distance learning too!

About this gracie combative thingy;

As what has been said, it was only a matter of time before someone got their hands on this cash grabbing exercise relating to BJJ. This is the same man who advertises 'Street Taekwon-Do' without any concern that he infact has never practiced it.
Kind of earns him the correct title of the Prostitute of Irish martial arts. I bet his arse is sore.

dasmoose · 17-09-2008 01:12PM

Nothingcompares wrote: »

Again in a similar vein to the other MMA shenanigans thread I don't really mind if this tarnishes the man on the streets view of BJJ. If you allow yourself to be conned it's your own fault. Again, I speak from point of view of a hobbyist, I'm sure someone who makes a living out of either sports would have a different view.

I don't really agree with you here kev, it's kind of the equivalent of you or I having two doctors prescribe two different treatments for the same condition - how are we to know which one is correct without medical training? Similarly how is joe bloggs who's read a bit about BJJ meant to know the difference between Gracie Combatives and SBG/Revolution/Next-Gen/etc etc ? Particularly when the gracie combatives lads are spouting a load of nonsense about sport BJJ being a watered down version of gracie jiu-jitsu.

I spent 3 years doing wing chun before I ended up sparring with a mate who boxed and realising I was wasting my time. It's very easy to end up in that position as a lay person.

I'm sure curious with regard to the last part - if the effectiveness of jitz lies in the focus on sparring, what difference does the technical/experience level of the coach make? If the instructor, shows 2 techniques, arm bar from guard and a sweep for example, and he lets the lads spar does it really matter if he's a guy with 10 weeks training or 10 years? I think the best thing about the sport is the emphasis on finding your own way and not just copying. Perhaps you mean this class won't involve any sparring and will all just be dead repetitions of the techniques. In that case I'd certainly agree with you.

It matters because an experienced coach can pick apart the little details of why a technique isnt working and help you figure it out - sure, if you just have a bunch of lads in a room sparring then eventually through natural selection they'll figure it out, but that's essentially re-inventing the wheel when an experienced coach would have just said "Yeah, you need to lift your hips more when you do that armbar". I'm sure you've had plenty of times when something isn't working for you or you just can't figure out how to defend a particular move, in which case it's invaluable to be able to ask your coach what to do - and a lot of the time your coach will even pick up on things which you didn't realise were holding you back.

Naturally everyone develops their own game, but there are certain higher percentage ways to do techniques or even general movements that are better than others.

However I also agree that this class will involve no sparring and pure dead repetition, which let's face it, means its basically just BJJ roleplay.

Nothingcompares · 17-09-2008 01:43PM

dasmoose wrote: »

I don't really agree with you here kev,

Ah now Mark, we can't be having that!

Mark would you have the same reservations about this course if it was called Wing Chun Ground fighting? Or Karate Combatives? I mean is it the fact that it's associated with GJJ and therefore BJJ that you have a problem with because you're associated with BJJ yourself? Or is the price? Like if the guy was charging 5 euro for his lessons rather than 50 would you still be so critical?

With regard to the latter, the prices are really dictated by demand and I imagine he has 5-10 disciples that do all his courses so he'll probably make money on them charging what he does. If someone puts down 500 euro for a load of GC training without googling the term Gracie Combatives in an Irish google search and therefore seeing this thread well it's their own fault.

In conclusion and for Mairt who doesn't like the big spiels

I don't think Patrick Cumiskey's course will be beneficial to BJJ in Ireland
But I don't think it will do any harm as I consider it's contribution to be negligible.

rackett32 · 21-09-2008 04:47PM

Roper wrote: »

I see Krav Maga has run it's course then.

No its the same guy

rackett32 · 21-09-2008 04:56PM

Nothingcompares wrote: »

http://www.graciecombativesireland.com/

Anyone familiar with this? Just wondering who is taking the classes etc.?

Found the website by seeing a google ad here.

its patrick cumunksy

Mikel · 21-09-2008 05:31PM

rackett32 wrote: »

No its the same guy

Eh that was his point, the money making potential of the ultimate self defence system must have levelled off, so now he's diversifying into jj and applying the same principle of overpriced short courses to gullible people.

rackett32 · 21-09-2008 05:45PM

Mikel wrote: »

Eh that was his point, the money making potential of the ultimate self defence system must have levelled off, so now he's diversifying into jj and applying the same principle of overpriced short courses to gullible people.

sorry dude, the penny only dropped after i sent reply!

Gracie jiujitsu

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