The British Isles or Islands of the North Atlantic?

djpbarry · 27-08-2008 10:24AM

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

By your logic everyone is american then.

Good point.

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

It implies "the islands of Britain". Despite it being a geographical term.

Does India own the Indian Ocean? Does the name imply that they own it?

Zzippy · 27-08-2008 10:42AM

pickarooney wrote: »

Why group them at all? It's not like there's a collective name for Australia + New Zealand.

Actually........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australasia

Geopolitically, Australasia is sometimes used as a term for New Zealand and Australia together, in the absence of another word limited to those two countries. Sometimes Papua New Guinea is encompassed by the term. There are many organizations whose names are prefixed with "(Royal) Australasian Society" that are limited to just New Zealand and Australia.

ejmaztec · 27-08-2008 10:48AM

When I attended a Catholic school in England, a long long long time ago, a teacher asked us whether any of us had been abroad during the summer. I said yes, and that I'd been to Ireland.

The teacher and most of my fellow students laughed "Ireland? That's not abroad." Spain, France etc., were abroad, along with every other country on the face of the earth, but not Ireland.

That smacked to me of a refusal to accept that Ireland was no longer part of the UK, even though the vast majority of the other students were Irish themselves, or were children of Irish immigrants.

I met old duffers in the UK 20 years ago who still regarded Ireland as a colony.

If that attitude prevails, Ireland will never be anything else other than part of the British Isles to people in the UK.

The main stumbling block however, in my opinion, seems to be that Irish text-books still refer to the British Isles. Interested parties here can moan all they like, but when the Irish government hasn't bothered itself with removing the reference, then blame them rather than stirring up old hatred.

mike65 · 27-08-2008 10:50AM

I saw the topic line on the front page and knew, just knew who had started it!

Mike.

JC 2K3 · 27-08-2008 10:52AM

Britain: A Geographical Region.
Great Britain: A country.

The French don't have a problem calling their most north-westernly province "Britanny", or "La Bretagne".

taidghbaby · 27-08-2008 10:58AM

i would like to add a meaningful contribution to this discussion but i have more important things to be thinking about.....like what to have for breakfast!!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-08-2008 11:01AM

taidghbaby wrote: »

i would like to add a meaningful contribution to this discussion but i have more important things to be thinking about.....like what to have for breakfast!!

I had a banana and nutella toasted sandwich. I know they don't sound great, but a German friend made me try one and my God.... fully recommended.

djpbarry · 27-08-2008 11:07AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I had a banana and nutella toasted sandwich. I know they don't sound great, but a German friend made me try one and my God.... fully recommended.

Substitute nutella with honey and you have yourself the ultimate cure for a hangover.

5starpool · 27-08-2008 11:09AM

ejmaztec wrote: »

When I attended a Catholic school in England, a long long long time ago, a teacher asked us whether any of us had been abroad during the summer. I said yes, and that I'd been to Ireland.

The teacher and most of my fellow students laughed "Ireland? That's not abroad." Spain, France etc., were abroad, along with every other country on the face of the earth, but not Ireland.

That smacked to me of a refusal to accept that Ireland was no longer part of the UK, even though the vast majority of the other students were Irish themselves, or were children of Irish immigrants.

I met old duffers in the UK 20 years ago who still regarded Ireland as a colony.

If that attitude prevails, Ireland will never be anything else other than part of the British Isles to people in the UK.

The main stumbling block however, in my opinion, seems to be that Irish text-books still refer to the British Isles. Interested parties here can moan all they like, but when the Irish government hasn't bothered itself with removing the reference, then blame them rather than stirring up old hatred.

Maybe because most of the people there had a strong association with Ireland they didn't recognise it as being abroad in the same way that continetal Europe is. My parents don't really regard going to england to visit relatives etc as going abroad, so it works both ways really a bit.

As for the OP, I used to care but then I grew up.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-08-2008 11:11AM

djpbarry wrote: »

Substitute nutella with honey and you have yourself the ultimate cure for a hangover.

I never really get hangovers (drink a lot of water when out) but the honey substitution is a nice idea. Will try that some mornign this week and let you know...

Earthhorse · 27-08-2008 11:24AM

bravestarr082 wrote: »

The largest River in The British Isles Is?

The Broad Majestic Shannon.

Or was my answer supposed to be in bold?

pickarooney wrote: »

Why group them at all? It's not like there's a collective name for Australia + New Zealand.

Someone's already pointed out that there is (even though they're over 1,000 miles apart) but I agree. I never have cause to use the term and I don't really see why anyone else would either.

ejmaztec · 27-08-2008 11:26AM

5starpool wrote: »

Maybe because most of the people there had a strong association with Ireland they didn't recognise it as being abroad in the same way that continetal Europe is. My parents don't really regard going to england to visit relatives etc as going abroad, so it works both ways really a bit.

As for the OP, I used to care but then I grew up.

Yes, possibly, but it won't make much difference either way when the Russians move in. I suppose they'll give it a new catchy title, "Radiation Atoll", or something. :eek:

biko · 27-08-2008 11:29AM

I prefer "Green and Pleasant Isles".

hot2def · 27-08-2008 11:30AM

pickarooney wrote: »

Why group them at all? It's not like there's a collective name for Australia + New Zealand.

Australasia, occasionally including Papua New Guinea

ejmaztec · 27-08-2008 11:31AM

Taking a cue from the Pacific, it could be called the "Irish Rim" - good for sex tourism, or as an ice-breaker when someone asks you where you're from. :P

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-08-2008 11:35AM

ejmaztec wrote: »

I met old duffers in the UK 20 years ago who still regarded Ireland as a colony.

If that attitude prevails, Ireland will never be anything else other than part of the British Isles to people in the UK.

Only in your mind and theirs.

ejmaztec wrote: »

The main stumbling block however, in my opinion, seems to be that Irish text-books still refer to the British Isles. Interested parties here can moan all they like, but when the Irish government hasn't bothered itself with removing the reference, then blame them rather than stirring up old hatred.

The Irish Govt. hasn't bothered itself doing a LOT of things, let's be honest. If they were going to tackle national education, I'd prefer they started with revamping the Irish language.

Fratton Fred · 27-08-2008 11:36AM

ejmaztec wrote: »

When I attended a Catholic school in England, a long long long time ago, a teacher asked us whether any of us had been abroad during the summer. I said yes, and that I'd been to Ireland.

The teacher and most of my fellow students laughed "Ireland? That's not abroad." Spain, France etc., were abroad, along with every other country on the face of the earth, but not Ireland.

That smacked to me of a refusal to accept that Ireland was no longer part of the UK, even though the vast majority of the other students were Irish themselves, or were children of Irish immigrants.

I met old duffers in the UK 20 years ago who still regarded Ireland as a colony.

If that attitude prevails, Ireland will never be anything else other than part of the British Isles to people in the UK.

did you specify which bit of Ireland you went to, not all of it is abroad you know (puts on tin hat, ducks and covers)

How about the "Isles of Alderney, England, Guernsey, Jersey, Man, Northern ireland, Republic of Ireland, Sark, Scotland and Wales". that's nice and catchy and shouldn't upset any tree hugging lefties too much.

dlofnep · 27-08-2008 11:37AM

I don't refer to them as the British Isles. I refer to Ireland and Britain as seperate Islands, which they are. British Isles in today's age implies ownership, which is false. I would have gone with the "neither" option.

hot2def · 27-08-2008 11:38AM

to me, nothing says "insecure former colony" like bickering over meaningless geographical terms

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-08-2008 11:39AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

did you specify which bit of Ireland you went to, not all of it is abroad you know (puts on tin hat, ducks and covers)

How about the "Isles of Alderney, England, Guernsey, Jersey, Man, Northern ireland, Republic of Ireland, Sark, Scotland and Wales". that's nice and catchy and shouldn't upset any tree hugging lefties too much.

I think you'll find it's the neo-cons that give a ****. Certainly not the 'tree-huggers'.

And what about the Shelands/Orkneys/Scilly Isles/Rockall*/Isle of Wight

*Puts on tin hat, ducks, covers and digs trench

ejmaztec · 27-08-2008 11:52AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Only in your mind and theirs.

You can't possibly tell what's in my mind. I personally couldn't give a toss what name, if any, is given to this group of islands. I'm simply giving a different perspective.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The Irish Govt. hasn't bothered itself doing a LOT of things, let's be honest. If they were going to tackle national education, I'd prefer they started with revamping the Irish language.

Having lived here for twenty years, not to mention being a regular visitor for decades prior to that, I know only too well what Irish governments of "both" political persuasions are capable of i.e. nil.

Fratton Fred · 27-08-2008 12:00PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I think you'll find it's the neo-cons that give a ****. Certainly not the 'tree-huggers'.

And what about the Shelands/Orkneys/Scilly Isles/Rockall*/Isle of Wight

*Puts on tin hat, ducks, covers and digs trench

Aren't those Islands part of other political entities. if we include them, we will also be including the Arran islands etc, it could get very messy and I'm sure Cork would want a mention as well

Portsmouth is an island, so I would expect that to be top of the list anyway.

thelordofcheese · 27-08-2008 12:03PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I think you'll find it's the neo-cons that give a ****. Certainly not the 'tree-huggers'.

And what about the Shelands/Orkneys/Scilly Isles/Rockall/Isle of Wight

Yeah!

wait..what?

Fratton Fred · 27-08-2008 12:04PM

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Yeah!

wait..what?

Do they still point at cars on the Isle of Wight?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-08-2008 12:06PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

You can't possibly tell what's in my mind. I personally couldn't give a toss what name, if any, is given to this group of islands. I'm simply giving a different perspective.
.

Fair enough, I thought your post implied differently.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-08-2008 12:08PM

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Yeah!

wait..what?

Small diamond-shaped island south of Portsmouth...?

thelordofcheese · 27-08-2008 12:08PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Do they still point at cars on the Isle of Wight?

Nah, they've gotten over that. However i'm currently using the only internet connection on the island.

Also, i'm looking to become their king because i'm the only person on the island without webbed toes.

JupiterKid · 27-08-2008 12:10PM

Like I suggested earler on the thread...

What about Western European Isles (WEI)?

hot2def · 27-08-2008 12:12PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Like I suggested earler on the thread...

What about Western European Isles (WEI)?

We'll be in this same pickle again after we get rooted out of europe.....

Dudess · 27-08-2008 12:27PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

When I attended a Catholic school in England, a long long long time ago, a teacher asked us whether any of us had been abroad during the summer. I said yes, and that I'd been to Ireland.

The teacher and most of my fellow students laughed "Ireland? That's not abroad." Spain, France etc., were abroad, along with every other country on the face of the earth, but not Ireland.

That smacked to me of a refusal to accept that Ireland was no longer part of the UK, even though the vast majority of the other students were Irish themselves, or were children of Irish immigrants.

To be honest, I'd have the same mindset - I don't really consider Britain "abroad" but I doubt that means I'm subconsciously a minion of the British Empire. I actually find my political leanings veering in the (moderate) republican direction.
Meh, as someone asked: why group them? Britain and Ireland/Ireland and Britain should surely do the trick. Someone said Australia and New Zealand are collectively known as Australasia (although I thought Australasia included some other countries and islands as well) but who the hell calls them that?!

I don't really understand the term "British Isles" either tbh - even if it's purely geographical (not that it remotely bothers me though). Ireland isn't in Britain so it's not a British isle.

The British Isles or Islands of the North Atlantic?

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