Tips for dog walking needed.....

pubpub wrote: »

Oh great tip with the stick - i know what you mean with a gentle tap - i'll try that.

ps - just make sure your very persistent with correcting her. every single time correct her when she walks in front. i wont lie to you and tell you it will only take a few day, but really it will take weeks but when she's trained you wont know yourself.

peasant wrote: »

Forget about sitting in front of the barking, foaming dog and trying to calm yours down. It won't work and will only make matters worse.
Avoid that dog for the time being (at least cross over to the other side of the road well in advance) and in the meantime work on getting the trust of your dog back.
(Hitting it on the nose every three steps doesn't help in that department either)

is run_to_the_hills your brother by any chance?

OP - the stick techique once used in a very non harming manner will work wonders. I have read plenty of training books which involve getting your dog to walk to heel and this is always the mot common and best advice. And in the case of the books i read the dog is trained to walk to heel witout a leash so with a leash it will be easier. i myself have trained my bitch using this technique now i just say heel and she comes back and trots beside me without even having the leash when in the fields.

OP - yes you can approach the dog, of course not right on top of it but just to the point where you can see your pup is beginning to get nervous. this could be 25 feet away from the other dog, but once you see your dog beginning to get nervous thats when you kneel down and begin reasuance. my dog in fact was terrified of cattle and i train her off the lead and what i did was sit down with her in the middle of the field and let the cattle approach. i kept her sitiing beside me talking to her and petting her down and reasuuring her. now she walks beside me through fields with cattle no problems.

aaahhh thats so cute that she wanted to play fetch !!! She sounds like a little cutie. when I first got my dog I had no idea about training or anything like that but I educated myself as much as possible and read everything about dogs to train myself firstly. thats what you've got to do. when I read that about the stick I just felt awful. I know its just a little tap but the thoughts of it. you do need persistance though. it takes time but its great fun too. they're so worth it.

A lot of people confuse lack of leadership and trust, with a dog trying to exert dominance over them. There are very few truly dominant dogs.

There's a couple of different ways of humanely teaching a dog to walk on a loose lead. Here's a few suggestions.

1: The easiest way to teach a dog to loose-leash walk is by making it associate that when next to you, great things happen, and that away from you those same things wont happen, until they return. That works for loose leash walking and for teaching recall.

Whatever treats she really goes mad for, use them to teach her how to walk on the lead. Keep those treats for that time only - it could be chicken, cooked liver, or shop bought treats. Or you can use a favourite toy, squeaky or otherwise.

Hold the treat between your thumb and forefinger right at the seam of your pants. Show her that you have it and lure her to your side to start with. You will fade out the lure after a while. Take a few steps, (3-4) and as long as she is at your side where you want her to be, give her the treat. Use another treat, take a few steps, treat. You can quietly praise her when she is in the right position, but don't do it too excitable because this in turn can excite the dog and cause them to lose focus on the lesson. Practice this in your house first with no distractions, then in your back garden if you have one, still keeping away from distractions.

After a while when she has it perfect 99.9% of the time, is when you can introduce a command associated with it - i.e. heel. We use "heel" to the left of us, and "close" to the right of us for our dogs, just in case we're out walking country roads and want them between us and the ditch. It works for us, but you can use any words you feel like.

When she knows exactly what you want, and can do it, then is the time to take her to the front garden/driveway/just outside your house. There's a few distractions there but not too many. When she walks perfectly on the lead there, introduce another place with some more distractions, always keeping up the positive reinforcement. At this stage you don't need to be treating her every few steps, but can go longer because she knows the rules of what she should be doing. You should also not be luring her into position at this stage.

Take her to the park, a forest, within earshot and sight of a playground with kids so she learns to walk nicely around squealing playing kids (You don't need to be too close), take her along paths that has traffic running alongside(but not too close) so she will learn that cars are an everyday occurrance and nothing to be frightened of, and that she still should be walking on a lead properly. Take her to as many different places as possible -just because she knows how to walk properly on a lead in the garden, doesnt mean she knows how to walk properly on a lead in other areas. Its just like teaching a sit in many different rooms, gardens, parks etc.

2: You can also teach the "watch me" command before you try the lead. Hold a piece of food/treat in your hand. Let her see it. Then she will look at your hand waiting for it - but do not give it to her until she makes eye contact. When she does, give her the treat while quietly praising her. After many many repetitions, introduce the "watch me" command. Teach this in many rooms, in many places, and you can use it while out walking teaching her to walk properly on the lead. She cant obey "watch me" while she's pulling ahead like a steam train. And if she pulls ahead, you're too late with the "watch me" command. You should be aware of both your surroundings and your dog, and be able to judge when she is beginning to lose focus. That is then when you tell her "watch me".


3: If she doesnt believe you are the leader, provider and that all things to do with survival come from you, she can pull ahead and lead the walk. There has to be a leader, and if you're not it, she will assume the role. Assuming the role means leading the "hunt" - the every day walk to you and me. So in other areas besides walking, she needs to see that you will protect her from harm, and make the right decisions for the family. If you do not show her that you are the leader in other areas, she wont believe or trust that you are the leader on the walk.

To "lead" her on the walk, the minute she starts pulling ahead, you can do one of two things. Either stop dead in your tracks - which tells her that you are not going anywhere until she is behaving, but you must make sure she knows the rules and that she is to be beside you. Or you can do an about turn and head the other direction, which has her end up behind you. When she has her shoulder level with your leg, quietly praise her and if you're using treats, then give her a treat when she is in the right positon. As soon as she starts pulling ahead, turn around again. Keep doing this until she accepts that this is your walk, you lead it, and it will stop unless she walks with you.

It might take you days to get out the driveway and might take weeks to get to the end of the block, and your neighbours might think you're a little tapped, but really in the end when you have a well trained dog who is a pleasure to walk with, will it really matter that they thought it for a few days. Well trained dogs are welcomed in the community. Badly behaved and bad mannered dogs arent so not only will it make walks a nicer experience for both you and your dog, it will be a nice experience for the community to see that there is a responsible owner around training their dog.

For your dog to believe you are the leader, that you control the home environment, will protect her and make decisions, and all the things to do with survival, you must have her trust. Tapping her on the nose or any sort of physical punishment is abuse and will break any trust she has in you. Dogs taught the old way have learned and been trained, not because of it but in spite of it.

Dogs are intelligent animals and once they are taught the rules, they learn quickly for the most part. If a dog trusts you to do the best for it, they will look up to you and respect you. You dog will want to do anything to please you, if they respect you. If they don't respect you and fear you, they will usually only perform a behaviour by force or through fear, in the hopes that they will not get punished again so will try to jump the gun and offer a behaviour before the punishment arrives - sometimes its the right behaviour, sometimes it's not, its all guesswork to the dog. A dog that fears its owner or handler will not see that being next to them is the best place in the world, and will also not come back when working on recall. You want your dog to associate that being with you is the greatest thing on earth, not somewhere where she'll get hurt, feel pain, or where the fun ends. Physially punishing a dog can break the dogs trust in you as their protector/owner/handler. After that trust is broken it can take a long long time for the dogs trust to be gained again, if ever. Don't break any bit of good bond you have with your dog by punishing her with a tap on the nose or anywhere on the body.

Thats not to say you cannot correct your dog ever. A verbal command of "No" in a firm voice is usually enough. If you're looking for more formal obedience training, then sometimes a physical correction comes into play. It is nothing barbaric - just a flick of the wrist to tighten the lead to say "hey pay attention" or when your dog knows the behaviour and blatantly ignores it, the flick of the wrist to tighten the lead is usually enough. There really is no need for this in basic obedience, it is more for competitive obedience.

I would also suggest you take her to training classes. Usually an 8-10 week course, once a week for under 100 euro. There's classes run all over the country. It should really not be seen as a last resort - more like the first appointment you make after your puppy gets all their shots. There you'll learn the correct way to train your dog for different behaviours, you'll be socialising her with different people and most importantly with different dogs. Socialising her with different dogs is very important after her experience with the barking fence patroller. She could grow up to think that all dogs are like that and any sighting of any dog could trigger her defense drive. Training classes are fun for both you and the dog, and will have her see that other dogs usually equals lots of fun!

As for walking past the dog that is behind the fence, there's a few things you should do if you must walk past the dog at some stage. Until she sees you as the one that will protect her, then avoid the dog. Cross the road, go a different way, turn back before you get there etc. When she has realised that you will protect her and that she can trust you, you can start getting closer to the other dog. Don't react at all. Dogs can detect small changes in heart rates, changes in breathing, and all your tension can travel down the lead, putting the dog on high alert. Just walk on by confidently and calmly, as if you're wearing blinkers. When she believes in you, she will look up to you while walking to see what you're doing. If you're not reacting, and she trusts you, she wont react. If you are reacting, she will also react.

Talking to her, petting her and any kind of attention is reassuring her that she is doing the right behaviour for the situation. Its just like saying "Its ok to be scared" or "I am scared too", or "this is the behaviour I want from you in these situations". No reaction is the best reaction.

Dogs have 3 modes when presented with a threat. The 3 F's. Freeze. Flight. Or Fight. Currently when walking past that dog, she makes the decision to freeze and then flight. When she looks to you while out walking, it is your job to decide which of the 3 F's you'll do. Walking away from the dog would be considered flight - but this in no way makes her think that you are weaker than her for walking away from this dog or any other dog. She will see it as you making the best decision for you both.

There are many ways to train a dog without resorting to breaking their trust and introducing physical punishment. What works for one dog, may not necessarily work for another. This is why there are different ways to teach different things. The majority are kind ways. Your hands should be your dogs friend, not something they fear.

You could also look into clicker training - using a clicker to mark the appropriate behaviour i.e. by your side, and to mark other behaviours you are trying to teach. There's plenty about it on the internet, use Google or whatever search engine of your preference to find out more. There's also plenty of videos on YouTube about how to clicker train a dog.

The three best tools for training a dog and gaining their trust are 1: a kind voice, 2: a kind hand, and 3: patience.

Your hands should be your dogs friends, not a weapon to be used against them like sticks. Sticks are for fetching, not for hitting.

Grrrrr had a big long post typed out and it disappeared :rolleyes:

Ok here goes for the second time!!

Little A wrote: »

Wow Beth, what a post....very informative !! Do you work as a trainer or is it just personal experience? Love the fact you give all the advice on why the techniques works rather than just what to do.

If it helps even one person, it was worth typing it out! I've never worked as a trainer its all down to my own experience with my dogs. What works for one dog, might not necessarily work for another so i've tried the different ways on the same dog til it showed results with the dog. I'm not saying all of the above will always work on all dogs, but if someone has tried them all including clicker training, and the dog isnt progressing, then it really is time to get a trainer to show you exactly how. A lot of the time dog training is people training combined with dog training Plus it helps that I'm a bookworm and have had to do a lot of research for writing articles on my recently opened dog site!

Any chance you coud elaborate on a few things:

I'll try

- Walking to heel....doing most of what you suggested already (but will add the "turn around and go back part!!). Mostly she's doing great, but the ids also want to walk her short distances....should I let them (especially as I said this would be a key part of us getting a dog & their responsibilities!!). I normally just let them have a ramble with her around thee road without any treats, so I'm the only one walk-training her with treats & plan to get them involved in how to do it when she is doing it reallywell for me...does that seem ok?

Kids should never be left unsupervised with dogs! Any dog!!

Many adults dont know what to do in a situation if a dog that is offlead comes and hassles your dog on the lead. Many dont know how to separate dogs fighting. Kids really dont know this unless they are specifically taught. Remember, kids can't own a dog - you have to be over 16 to be able to get a dog license so its the adults responsiblity and the adult is the owner. Your dog is to be under control at all times and if it gets loose you are liable for any damage done - be it causing a car accident and having to fork out for a car, or property damage, to bites and having to foot medical bills. I'm not just on about your dog, your kids, your everything - I mean every owner is liable for their dog, and every owner is repsonsible for keeping them under control. Deffo not singling you out at all. So anyone reading this, please remember this if your kids walk your dog.

Ok, so now thats out of the way , you can have your kids help you with training anything. You could take one at a time out with you and show them what you're doing. Keep them on the far side of the dog until they know what is expected of them, and what is expected of the dog. Get them to look out for signs of her tightening the lead, losing focus etc. When you think they know exactly what is expected, get them to walk on the other side of the dog - with the dog between you both. Get them looking out for signs again. when you're absolutely sure the child knows what is the purpose of being out here with you both, you can pass the lead over. If its a small dog and not very strong, you could give them the lead. If its a larger dog, it might be advisable to clip a second lead to the dogs collar and hand the child one, and you keep the other - just in case the dog gets a notion into their head and decides it wants to chase that ball or that leaf, or picks up on a scent. If the dog is a restricted breed, then handing the lead over to the child if the child is under 16 is a no-no. Two leads can help with this again.

You know your children better than anyone and you know your dog better than anyone. If you don't think either are ok/would be able for whats mentioned above, then wait until the dog can walk perfectly on the lead before introducing kids on the walk. Kids can be distracting, even if they're not doing anything - just their presence alone can distract the dog from concentrating and building self-control. Dogs usually associate kids = great fun, so their presence while the dog has that association, can really break the concentration and set you back. They can help in other ways, like tiring the dog out by playing fetch out the back.

- Treats : what size should they be....I started giving too large a treat (eg - a typical meat treat strip broken into about 8 pieces), i now cut that up so I probably get about 20 tiny morsels!! I also use cheese, chicken, beef or even kibbles of her food....but tiny amounts....is that okay? I actually spent about 3 days training her with just her food as she was showing some signs of being abit too dominant/agressive...that seemed to help alot.

Treats should be small enough that the dog can chew it in a few seconds. If the dog has to spend longer chewing or crunching, the dog tends to forget why they got it in the first place!

Tiny amounts are fine. Even dipping the tip of your finger into a tub of meat based baby food/peanut butter/kong stuffing paste, is enough. A reward is a reward is a reward.

- Treats again - I seem to be giving treats all day....when she sits, get down, walks to heel, stays etc....when I try to pull back on one area as she seems to perfect it, she starts to get lazy about it very quickly. Maybe I'm trying to do too much too quick (she's about 6 month old & a rescue). But there is a limit to how many treat I can/should give her in a day.

When you're starting out teaching a new behaviour, use a high-value reward - something she will go absolutely nuts for, nearly doing head over heels for As she goes through the learning stage, you can start reducing the value of the reward. You can then also combine it with quiet praise, not excitable praise though as this can get them excited and they can lose focus then. You could also introduce a rub or pet before the treat so they see it as part of their reward. But thats up to the individual and the individual dog, as some trainers say do give a gentle rub, others say don't! Whatever works for you. As you're reducing the value of the rewards and introducing praise, you can begin to phase out the actual food rewards by treating every second turn, using only praise at the times when you're not treating. Then do it every time, every 3rd time, every second time, etc, constantly changing so the dog doesnt figure out "if i do this X times, I get the yummy stuff" Eventually phasing it out so that she does it for praise alone. Thats not saying you dont have to ever treat her again - treating every now and then reinforces that the good work is being done so she'll continue to do it by choice, to get either the praise or keep her hopes up to get a treat

You can also mix up the reward, high value treats, kibble, just praise etc. Mix up when you give what. I don't mean reward all sits with chicken and reward all downs with beef. Reward a sit with chicken one time, the next time beef, the next time her kibble, the next time praise etc, so she will keep doing it in the hopes that her most favourite treat in the world might be this one

Nearly all treats come with advice on the back of the pack for small, medium and large dogs and what they can have per day. Check the back of her treats and base it off the advice there. Break that up into as many pieces as is needed and use it throughout the day for training. If you're using her kibble, take it out of her allowance for her daily meals. Don't forget to subtract what treats you give her during the day from her daily meal amount either. If you're using chicken, which some dogs get daily with their food, you would have to give a huge amount for it to be considered a lot. Just whatever you reward her with, subtract from her food allowance.

That way you still have a healthy dog with no weight issues. Its fine to treat her throughout the day but structured lessons might work better for you. Using a different collar or lead or you putting on a particular jacket can all signal the start of a training lesson. After your 15 mins you can take them back off again, finishing the lesson on a high note with something she knows how to do, and then when she has done that, a light "ok" or "free" or whatever (even Mickey mouse!!) can be used as a verbal signal that the session is ended combined with removing the collar and replacing the normal one. If she then does a behaviour that you know she knows, during the day between sessions, just reward with praise. Or even a bit of her kibble so she doesnt start training you to give her treats on her command!! They're crafty out you see

Her poo will also give you clues if she is getting too many treats. If it changes drastically from what it usually is on a basic diet, then you will notice and will need to cut back a bit. Its all trial and error with different dogs again, so whatever works and is right for you is fine.

- correcting bad behaviour - saying "no" is fine in certain occassion, but I sometimes think she is starting to do the bad behaviour because she know if she follows my instructions she'll be rewarded. She was jumping up & I'd say "down" and reward her, she seemed to tie in the jumping down as what would get the reward!!! She's a smart cookie....I'd swear she pretended to go to the toilet outside so she'd get a treat (she got one for effort!!).

I see she has you trained Like i said, they're crafty out!!
Some dogs see any verbal utterance as a reward for their behaviour. So you can try a few things. When she's outside of her time for her training lessons, you reward the desired behaviour only with praise. Or you can completely ignore it and walk off. If she's trying to get something out of you for doing something, and you walk off, it will cause her to think and eventually it will lead to self-control, when she sees that the behaviour doesnt work anymore. Bear in mind that if you are ignoring her and walking off when she's doing the bad behaviour, she could get worse before getting better. She could also run through a myriad of behaviours just to get your attention - both good and bad behaviours. You can also just catch her by her collar and gently lead her to the ground, and when all 4 paws are down, reward her with praise only. Again, try things out, and figure out which ones will work for you.

- Going up stairs (abit like the above question)....I sort of have it bloked off, but sometime she gets by...great game as far as she's concern. She will follow me down...but I'm not sure if I should reward her....I try to stay firm upstairs ("DOWN") and abit of a play at the end of the stairs....but again is she linking the play with having gone up & down the stairs???

Just like she sees the "jumping up & then good behaviour = great stuff" she is probably associating the play with coming down the stairs. You can do the exact same play that you do with her at the end of the stairs, anywhere else in the house, so she learns that it doesnt just happen at the end of the stairs.

You could also put up a baby gate. We currently use a 3 piece fireguard (recent move so everything is in storage) and the bigger one could plough through it if she felt like it, but no, she delicately takes the top of one side between her teeth and opens it like a door Again, crafty out!! the smaller one hasnt a hope of getting through the fireguard but his "sister" helps him out at times.

Management of her home environment and having it controlled by you is often a better way of preventing behaviours rather than them trying it out and figuring a way to train the human to give a reward, and then the human trying to correct the learned behaviour or cut it out completely.

You can also start training her in a stay.
Stand in front of her, put her in a sit. Hold your hand up palm facing her and bring it close to her nose. Treat her if she holds the sit for a second. Do this many many times so she realises that this is the rule of the new behaviour. Then increase the time, 5 seconds, 7, 9, 10 etc. If she breaks it when you are increasing time, then you are going too fast for her, so reduce the time you are asking her to hold it again, then gradually increase it again. Then when she can stay in that position for a while, start introducing distance. 1 step, 2 steps, keep the time short until she realises that this is all part of the behaviour you are asking for. Then increase the time for the distance, increase the distance another step, hold for a second, increase time gradually, increase distance, hold for a second, 2, 4, increase time etc and so on until she can hold her "stay" for as long as you need.

Its advisable not to call her to you when you have finished the stay. This will teach her to break the stay, which one day the stay command could end up saving her life. Always go back to her and release her instead of calling her to you. This way if you are out and about and she's across the road somewhere, and about to run across in front of a car, you can give the signal for stay (or command) which tells her stay where she is until you come get her.

Gosh, I've asked loads there, any advice would be great & fully understand if it's too much to answer all of them

Hey, if you don't ask, you don't get
I hope some of it helps

But remember, there is no one single way that produces the exact same results in every single dog.
Try things, if they dont work out, try something else. But be consistent. Patience and consistency is the key.

You're welcome
Hope it helps!
Hope she's enjoying her play date! Its great for them, they learn how to be around dogs, and learn dog manners - I've a very rude dog that refuses to learn the proper manners for interacting with other dogs even though he has been socialised and lives with another dog, so I don't know everything there is to know, at all! if I did, he'd have manners

@ weekly Ask Beth. I wouldnt be that well versed at all! We all are always still learning
But if i can help someone with something they might not have thought of, I will.