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Annoyed Trainee Solicitor

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58 ✭✭Butterbear


    You can if you want, but the FE's are easy exams, whether it's the 1's or 2's.

    Imo, they are too easy, since the standard of teaching in Blackhall is so poor. When was the alst time you heard of someone failing a year in blackhall for example?


    Umm...I failed PPC1, got results on Friday. I'm devastated: attended most lectures, 98% tutorials, attended exam prep lectures and put lots of work in.

    I'm not stupid or lazy, I'm a hard-worker: got over 500 points in my leaving cert and passed all FE1s first time. Never failed an exam in my life.

    I'm a little bitter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11 Angelica


    I got my results for the PPC1 on Friday as well and passed (though I'd say it was very close and I had been mentally preparing myself to fail) About a third of the year failed which I know is not much consolation for those who did fail but it shows that the assumption that PPC1 and PPC2 are a doodle and getting into Blackhall is the hard part is now wrong. I think the Law Society is trying to make the overall process a lot harder. And btw, the people I heard of failing weren't slackers by any means; like Butterbear, they were the ones who went to every lecture and did all their homework etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    And there's a resit in a few weeks which you'll all walk through.

    Afaik, the reason a lot of people failed is because some idiot put up all the conveyancing notes on moodle and the examiners saw the exams were going to be an extra easy joke this year and changed the paper at the last minute.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,157 ✭✭✭Johnny Utah


    Just came across this thread- very interesting.

    I agree with the OP and Ronnie. The Law Society has completely messed up on the numbers qualifying in the last couple of years. Apparently, around 600-700 people have been qualifying every year, and it's quite obvious to anyone that the Irish market simply cannot sustain those kind of numbers. The market is now flooded with newly qualified solicitors.

    The Competition Authority are somewhat to blame too; ready to pounce if the law society even contemplate restricting numbers at all. I wonder how the Competition Authority feel now that some fully qualified solicitors are losing their jobs.

    Every other profession has strict barriers to entry, and has a representative body to look after its interests. Take medicine, for example, I doubt that I'd be able to take a few final exams and become a doctor, without having a medicine degree. Yet, this is what happens in law. The leaving cert/cao points system itself is a huge barrier to entry into the medical profession, but nobody in the Comp Authority mentions that. Therefore, why don't they restrict the applicants in the FE1s to law graduates?

    I have a law degree, and passed all FE1s, and I'm currently looking for a training contract. There are hundreds more in the same position, and it is getting harder each year to secure the training contract.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,494 ✭✭✭ronbyrne2005


    Just came across this thread- very interesting.

    I agree with the OP and Ronnie. The Law Society has completely messed up on the numbers qualifying in the last couple of years. Apparently, around 600-700 people have been qualifying every year, and it's quite obvious to anyone that the Irish market simply cannot sustain those kind of numbers. The market is now flooded with newly qualified solicitors.

    The Competition Authority are somewhat to blame too; ready to pounce if the law society even contemplate restricting numbers at all. I wonder how the Competition Authority feel now that some fully qualified solicitors are losing their jobs.

    Every other profession has strict barriers to entry, and has a representative body to look after its interests. Take medicine, for example, I doubt that I'd be able to take a few final exams and become a doctor, without having a medicine degree. Yet, this is what happens in law. The leaving cert/cao points system itself is a huge barrier to entry into the medical profession, but nobody in the Comp Authority mentions that. Therefore, why don't they restrict the applicants in the FE1s to law graduates?

    I have a law degree, and passed all FE1s, and I'm currently looking for a training contract. There are hundreds more in the same position, and it is getting harder each year to secure the training contract.


    Just because other professions have barriers to entry doesnt mean law should too. Law is not medicine, medicine requires far more skills and study and lives depend on this and government employs nearly all qualified doctors at some stage. Medical places are restricted by government and medical schools and havent increased in decades i beleive. If someone really wants to do medicine you can do it in uk with lower points or pay to do it privately in Europe (around 10k a year in Poland and qualification is recognised here). Get used to it, law is not the easy road to riches it was in past.
    Do a masters in law or go to another country to get your experience or do some other job( loads jobs for law grads in IFSC in legal side of things) for a few years till more training contracts are on offer. If there is truly a surplus of grads then less and less people will do FEs and law degrees in years to come and marketplace will determine numbers in profession and new lower renumeration levels.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Just because other professions have barriers to entry doesnt mean law should too. Law is not medicine, it requires far more skills and study and lives depend on this and government employs nearly all qualified doctors at some stage. Medical places are restricted by government and medical schools and havent increased in decades i beleive. If someone really wants to do medicine you can do it in uk with lower points or pay to do it privately in Europe (around 10k a year in Poland and qualification is recognised here). Get used to it, law is not the easy road to riches it was in past.
    Do a masters in law or go to another country to get your experience or do some other job( loads jobs for law grads in IFSC in legal side of things) for a few years till more training contracts are on offer. If there is truly a surplus of grads then less and less people will do FEs and law degrees in years to come and marketplace will determine numbers in profession and new lower renumeration levels.

    Em, UL recently opened a new medical school, and the other medical schools did everything they could to stop it happening, so yes, there are high barriers to entry in medicine. There are high-ish barriers to entry in accounting and engineering too. The simple fact is the law society made their entry exams too easy and therefore too many people entered blackhall. Like I said, Blackhall itself is a joke of a course so people are now becoming fully qualified solicitors of reasonably low quality.

    Btw, I'm not sure law was ever the easy road to riches Ron, in a) it's not supposed to be easy to qualify and work at, and b) it's a safe middle class job, like any other, only the best will make significant money out of it, that will probably never change.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,494 ✭✭✭ronbyrne2005


    Em, UL recently opened a new medical school, and the other medical schools did everything they could to stop it happening, so yes, there are high barriers to entry in medicine. There are high-ish barriers to entry in accounting and engineering too. The simple fact is the law society made their entry exams too easy and therefore too many people entered blackhall. Like I said, Blackhall itself is a joke of a course so people are now becoming fully qualified solicitors of reasonably low quality.

    Btw, I'm not sure law was ever the easy road to riches Ron, in a) it's not supposed to be easy to qualify and work at, and b) it's a safe middle class job, like any other, only the best will make significant money out of it, that will probably never change.

    Well over past decade many were attracted by huge amounts of conveyencing. One guy who went on to study law at UCC told me after we did leaving cert in 1998 that he wanted to be a solicitor as their was so much easy money in conveyencing and personal injury claims. Anyway not much of those revenue streams nowadays with housing collapse and PIAB.
    There are few restrictions on numbers of professions in other countries. Ireland is just way behind in opening these professions to competition. Once you reach a certain standard of education and served sufficient training to gain experience you should not be restricted in entering the marketplace for such professions. I can't see why the law society would have made exams as easy as people on here claim. What do they stand to gain from such action? Increased competition for work, lowered standards and standing of the profession.
    Just doing FEs doesnt make one a good solicitor. That comes with experience and specialisation etc. FEs are just a minimum standard of academic and technical knowlege.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Well over past decade many were attracted by huge amounts of conveyencing. One guy who went on to study law at UCC told me after we did leaving cert in 1998 that he wanted to be a solicitor as their was so much easy money in conveyencing and personal injury claims. Anyway not much of those revenue streams nowadays with housing collapse and PIAB.
    There are few restrictions on numbers of professions in other countries. Ireland is just way behind in opening these professions to competition. Once you reach a certain standard of education and served sufficient training to gain experience you should not be restricted in entering the marketplace for such professions. I can't see why the law society would have made exams as easy as people on here claim. What do they stand to gain from such action? Increased competition for work, lowered standards and standing of the profession.
    Just doing FEs doesnt make one a good solicitor. That comes with experience and specialisation etc. FEs are just a minimum standard of academic and technical knowlege.

    You're basing your knowledge of solicitors earnings on what a guy told you when he was 18 or so?

    Other countries have similar barriers to practising btw. In most countries at the very least you will have to do is an exam of some sort, England being the obvious exception of course.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,157 ✭✭✭Johnny Utah


    Just because other professions have barriers to entry doesnt mean law should too. Law is not medicine, (1)medicine requires far more skills and study and lives depend on this and (2)government employs nearly all qualified doctors at some stage. Medical places are restricted by government and medical schools and havent increased in decades i beleive. (3) If someone really wants to do medicine you can do it in uk with lower points or pay to do it privately in Europe (around 10k a year in Poland and qualification is recognised here). (4)
    Get used to it, law is not the easy road to riches it was in past.

    (1) I wouldn't agree. To become a successful solicitor requires a lot of time and hard work. A person may be in their late 20s by the time they qualify as a solicitor (3-4 years at undergraduate level, 1-2 years at FE1s, 1 year at masters/postgraduate, and then 3 years in the training contract).

    People's lives depend on the legal profession too. A person may be appealing a life sentence, and the first port of call is the solicitor's office.

    Solicitors occupy an important role in society, and accordingly they should have adequate ability, training and experience to perform that role.


    (2) Plenty of doctors in private practice.

    Trust me, there are strict barriers to entry in medicine. Even the new graduate entry into medicine is fiercely competitive for a small number of places.


    (3) Very few people follow this route. Moving abroad, with the significant cost involved, itself is quite a burden. I don't think the average family would be able to afford those costs.


    (4) I don't view law as an easy road to riches, never have. I think you're misinformed if you think the average solicitor is rolling in money. I've seen the figures for solicitor's salaries are they're quite modest. The media grossly overexagerates the earning power of lawyers.




    (5) Do a masters in law or go to another country to get your experience or (6)do some other job( loads jobs for law grads in IFSC in legal side of things) for a few years till more training contracts are on offer. If there is truly a surplus of grads then less and less people will do FEs and law degrees in years to come and marketplace will determine numbers in profession and new lower renumeration levels.

    (5) Thought about doing a masters, but I don't think it's worth the 8,000 Euro fee in my current situation. I might do a masters when I'm fully qualified.

    I know of people with masters and all fe1s, and have been looking for an apprenticeship for the last year.

    (6) There's not loads of jobs for law grads.




    (7)Well over past decade many were attracted by huge amounts of conveyencing. One guy who went on to study law at UCC told me after we did leaving cert in 1998 that he wanted to be a solicitor as their was so much easy money in conveyencing and personal injury claims. Anyway not much of those revenue streams nowadays with housing collapse and PIAB.
    There are few restrictions on numbers of professions in other countries. Ireland is just way behind in opening these professions to competition. (8)Once you reach a certain standard of education and served sufficient training to gain experience you should not be restricted in entering the marketplace for such professions. (9)I can't see why the law society would have made exams as easy as people on here claim. (10)What do they stand to gain from such action? Increased competition for work, lowered standards and standing of the profession.
    (11)Just doing FEs doesnt make one a good solicitor. That comes with experience and specialisation etc. FEs are just a minimum standard of academic and technical knowlege.


    (7) Well, that leaving cert student was very naive. You're not seriously basing your opinions on the legal profession on the ill-conceived notions of a leaving cert student. Ironically, if you're friend did go on to specialise in conveyancing, his business is probably a bit quieter these days.

    Solicitor salaries are wildly overexagerated, as I mentioneed in point (4) above.

    There's plenty of other careers where it's a lot easier to make "easy money".

    Btw, I think about 97% of claimants are actually represented by a solicitor at a PIAB hearing.


    (8) I agree, we just have to clarify where exactly the threshold for entry into the profession should be set.


    (9)The exams aren't exactly easy; just that they've let too many people get past them in recent years.


    (10)What would they have to gain? Money- each exam cost 100 euro, and there's a lot of candidates at each sitting.

    There's also the fact that the Competition Authority were peering over their shoulder at all times, so the Law Society were in a position that they had to let as many as possible take the exams.


    (11)I agree the Fe1s are only a minimum academic standard, and that is why there should be a cut-off point only allowing a certain number through to Blackhall. The Irish market can only justify a certain number of newly qualified solicitors each year, and the Law Society should keep this number in mind in deciding who should pass the FE1s. The other alternative is to allow a huge number pass the FE1s, and consequently the market becomes flooded. This is not good for competition, as it allows the lowest common denominator through the gates and into practice.

    Bear in mind that every other profession will control the numbers entering the profession, be it through the cao system or professional exams. Ever wonder why the leaving cert points are set as such a level for the likes of denistry, architecture, engineering etc? That's right, to control demand and supply of those entering the profession.

    It takes time, money and effort to pass college, masters, fe1s, and blackhall. Therefore, I believe that it's a reasonable expectation that there will be some work available when the person qualifies as a solicitor. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Law Society owes anyone a career and I'm not against competition- far from it. I think that if a person works hard and applies themselves properly, there should be a reasonable opportunity of work in their chosen profession. The Law Society has allowed this situation to fester and now the market is flooded- there simply isn't enough work to go around and now solicitors are being let go.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭EC1000


    (1)
    Bear in mind that every other profession will control the numbers entering the profession, be it through the cao system or professional exams. Ever wonder why the leaving cert points are set as such a level for the likes of denistry, architecture, engineering etc? That's right, to control demand and supply of those entering the profession.

    Johnny Utah - not getting involved in your debate but wanted to inform you how the CAO points are calculated. Its absolutely nothing to do with setting a high barrier to entry or regulating the profession - its just simple maths. If there are 100 places in a course, the points for the course will be the number of points that the 100 placed applicant received - you are mistaken in your post to think you can control demand - that is decided by society - its supply that decides the points..... economics 101


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭grumpytrousers


    EC1000 wrote: »
    Johnny Utah - not getting involved in your debate but wanted to inform you how the CAO points are calculated. Its absolutely nothing to do with setting a high barrier to entry or regulating the profession - its just simple maths. If there are 100 places in a course, the points for the course will be the number of points that the 100 placed applicant received - you are mistaken in your post to think you can control demand - that is decided by society - its supply that decides the points..... economics 101

    Sure, but tie that in with the comment above with other medical schools railing against the introduction of a Medicine course in UL; fact is (or appears to be) that there was significant lobbying to control the amount of people becoming doctors. I don't doubt that UL can establish a faculty of Medical types just as eminently qualified as any other medical school. I'd have thought (but pardon my naivity) that diagnosing a burst appendix is diagnosing a burst appendix, whether its taught in a college with 300 years of history or just 3.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭hada


    EC1000 wrote: »
    Johnny Utah - not getting involved in your debate but wanted to inform you how the CAO points are calculated. Its absolutely nothing to do with setting a high barrier to entry or regulating the profession - its just simple maths. If there are 100 places in a course, the points for the course will be the number of points that the 100 placed applicant received - you are mistaken in your post to think you can control demand - that is decided by society - its supply that decides the points..... economics 101

    Points are decided by a number of factors, not just supply of demand (of which is a very important factor). The university heads meet with CAO who meet with other governing bodies and devise a points scheme for this year. Of course if demand is up, then the points will go up, but it also depends on what these people get in their own leaving cert (i.e. 50 people put a course with 25 places as first choice on CAO, and the highest of the gets 350...the course cannot be above this, and will go down as far as the 25th person..)

    Law will come back around, I've said it before. All this bitching and contemplating is just filling the void until then. You see unlike construction, where people simply stop buying houses, law never stops - it'll find other niches to prosper in.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd



    It's not just due to the drop off in conveyancing either, no industry could expand to the extent the legal profession has in recent years. If it's any consolation, we'll be joining barristers on the dole queue too. I know a few recently qualified ones and it's just a grim a vista for them as it is for us.

    Barristers on the dole queue,, where do they sign on -- So I can go watch. There's plenty of work around for them to do. There's no excuse to be on the dole.

    You could always go a do what Dick Spring did, people say he was a barrister, but he never practiced law,,,,, he worked as a barman.

    You could always sweep the streets. We have filthy streets.

    How about doing something socially useful.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭hada


    krd wrote: »
    Barristers on the dole queue,, where do they sign on -- So I can go watch. There's plenty of work around for them to do. There's no excuse to be on the dole.

    You could always go a do what Dick Spring did, people say he was a barrister, but he never practiced law,,,,, he worked as a barman.

    You could always sweep the streets. We have filthy streets.

    How about doing something socially useful.

    Ok spend 3-5 years in College, 2-3 years more, get on the roll and then clean the streets? Are you actually serious?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭dermot_sheehan


    hada wrote: »
    Points are decided by a number of factors, not just supply of demand (of which is a very important factor). The university heads meet with CAO who meet with other governing bodies and devise a points scheme for this year. Of course if demand is up, then the points will go up, but it also depends on what these people get in their own leaving cert (i.e. 50 people put a course with 25 places as first choice on CAO, and the highest of the gets 350...the course cannot be above this, and will go down as far as the 25th person..)

    Law will come back around, I've said it before. All this bitching and contemplating is just filling the void until then. You see unlike construction, where people simply stop buying houses, law never stops - it'll find other niches to prosper in.


    This is wrong, the University Heads to not get together and decide on what points are required for a course, the university has only two ways of influencing the points for a course, by deciding on the number of students to accept in a given year (which is done before the CAO process starts over summer, and setting minimum grades in certain subjects at leaving cert to be admitte to a course e.g. Higher C3 in Maths).


    After that it is purely dependent on supply and demand and the grades of peopleapplying to a course. If a course is lets say 500 points and it has 100 places it means the last person offered a spot on that course got 500 points. All 99 people ahead of him/her got that or above, and they had it as number 1 on their subject choice form.


    Subjects have high points if demand for them is high, supply of places small, and/or the people who apply for such courses get quite good grades int heir leaving cert.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭Rhonda9000


    krd wrote: »
    How about doing something socially useful.

    Like watching barristers signing at a dole office? :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭grumpytrousers


    I read that as 'singing' and had a v strange mental image...

    dole officer : And apart from the Law, what can you do?
    Barrister: Puccini, Verdi and Debbie Harry impersonations... :D

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭hada


    gabhain7 wrote: »
    This is wrong, the University Heads to not get together and decide on what points are required for a course, the university has only two ways of influencing the points for a course, by deciding on the number of students to accept in a given year (which is done before the CAO process starts over summer, and setting minimum grades in certain subjects at leaving cert to be admitte to a course e.g. Higher C3 in Maths).


    After that it is purely dependent on supply and demand and the grades of peopleapplying to a course. If a course is lets say 500 points and it has 100 places it means the last person offered a spot on that course got 500 points. All 99 people ahead of him/her got that or above, and they had it as number 1 on their subject choice form.


    Subjects have high points if demand for them is high, supply of places small, and/or the people who apply for such courses get quite good grades int heir leaving cert.

    If you reread my post you see that I didn't once say they actually set the points - they devise a scheme (of amount of places etc) thereby influencing the overall amount of points required. This is why courses such as OT, S & L Therapy and Medicine, which do not have near as much demand as, say, Arts or Commerce, have such higher points than other courses which are in much more demand.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭grumpytrousers


    ah yeah, but that's not done year on year. It's not as if the Head honchos of UCD, UL, TCD etc meet for tea and biscuits in, say, Mullingar every August and arbitrarily decide to slash the amount of places on Medicine and bump up the amount of spaces in Mechanical Engineering. Year on year the amount of places available stays *relatively*constant and people have a fair idea of what the points are going to be like in a given year. Supply doesn't radically change and the only thing that causes significant changes in points in a given year *tends* to be a radical shift in demand.

    Sure, if the President and staff of UCC decided and got the go ahead to, say, run a course in Vetinary Science, then the points for that would surely fall to an extent, but that's it. The impression you gave was something along the lines of smoke-filled rooms, and that's not the case.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    hada wrote: »
    Ok spend 3-5 years in College, 2-3 years more, get on the roll and then clean the streets? Are you actually serious?

    Yes, I am serious. Law graduates wouldn't be the first group to wake up one day, after years of hardwork, and realise they've been duped.

    You have been shafted. Ireland is that kind of place. You have been made a fool of -- a full clean driving license is worth more then a degree. A hgv license is worth more then a phD. Before deregulation, the average taxi driver earned far more then the average barrister. (do you know in your heart why?)

    If you didn't have the social connections to get you good spot after graduating then you were foolish. It's not about hard work, It's not about how good you are. You probably thought you were joining a club where you'd be protected, and get a chance to shaft the livestock. But it's an invitation only club. And if you not in the club, you're in the barn.

    I'm not being sarcastic when I say my heart really goes out to anyone who's worked very hard only to be so poorly compensated. I have seen people kill themselves with disillusionment.

    In case your interested, the last time I checked, the starting salary for street sweeping was 33K.

    All that glisters is not gold.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    And then next group about to wake up as being duped, will be trainee accountants.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    I've been searching for a while, and I can find absolutely no entry level legal positions being advertised.

    You should have maybe been a plummer

    http://www.jobs.ie/trades_operative_manual_jobs.aspx

    19/08/2008 Attention - Electricians, Plummers, Blocklayers, Plasters..etc...Click Here!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    Be the hokey --- Half the artic drivers I ever knew did jail time at some point or other -- 40k plus after just 2years experience, never once having to crack a book open.

    Did you ever get the feeling someone is having a very big laugh at your efforts.

    http://www.jobs.ie/ApplyForJob.aspx?Id=807842

    Articulated Truck Drivers required €40,000 +

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    Our client one of Irelands largest retail chains are currently looking for experienced drivers.

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    If you are interested please contact through the link below.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    So, Krd, it's safe to assume you lost your boyfriend or girlfriend to a barrister, a solicitor, and then an accountant?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭hada


    krd wrote: »
    Be the hokey --- Half the artic drivers I ever knew did jail time at some point or other -- 40k plus after just 2years experience, never once having to crack a book open.

    Did you ever get the feeling someone is having a very big laugh at your efforts.

    http://www.jobs.ie/ApplyForJob.aspx?Id=807842

    Articulated Truck Drivers required €40,000 +

    Artic Drivers Required

    Our client one of Irelands largest retail chains are currently looking for experienced drivers.

    Details:

    4/5 Days per week - which can include weekend work
    Early morning starts - Start times 12am - 6am
    8 - 12 hours shifts
    Nationwide work

    Requirements:

    Digital Tachograph Card (essential)
    Previous experience in Ireland (preferably FMCG)
    Fluent English is essential
    2 years experience in Ireland driving Articulated Trucks

    Salary - €40k + per annum

    If you are interested please contact through the link below.



    Location Dublin
    Payment €40,000 + per annum
    Category Drivers.
    Terms Permanent, Contract, Full-time
    Last updated 18/08/2008
    Contact Alan Dowdall

    thanks for the job info - sure what use is my 1.1 BCL degree, acceptance to Oxford LLM anyway when I can make 40,000euro p/a driving a truck. Only problem is I haven't served two years in prison, pity, what a great job opportunity. Thanks krd, you've just actually made my life so much easier - ever think of becoming career guidance counsellor?

    ps. you know for a person who posts a hell of a lot in the legal discussion forum - you really don't ever have anything of material substance to contribute.


  • Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    Every walk of life is affected by the economic climate. I saw plumbers etc mentioned above. They are no less affected - something like 10,000 people involved in the construction industry - including tradesmen - were laid off after the last August Bank Holiday weekend alone.

    So yes, things are in turmoil at the moment in the legal profession. Some big firms have laid off staff however, there are jobs in areas such as debt recovery for example, which is now exploding after many quiet years.

    I feel terrible for people entering the profession at the moment, not least for the 2 trainees in my office but that's just the way it is. I don't think the Law Society or King's Inns have mishandled anything as far as this issue goes.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    So, Krd, it's safe to assume you lost your boyfriend or girlfriend to a barrister, a solicitor, and then an accountant?

    :(
    Thanks for pouring salt on some old wounds.

    Would you like to come round to my house and squirt lemon juice in my eyes?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    krd wrote: »
    :(
    Thanks for pouring salt on some old wounds.

    Would you like to come round to my house and squirt lemon juice in my eyes?

    Not really, but I might hire some unemployed Barristers to do it. Would it still count as assault now that you've given me permission to squirt lemon juice in your eyes? I'm willing to argue it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    hada wrote: »
    thanks for the job info - sure what use is my 1.1 BCL degree, acceptance to Oxford LLM anyway when I can make 40,000euro p/a driving a truck. Only problem is I haven't served two years in prison, pity, what a great job opportunity. Thanks krd, you've just actually made my life so much easier - ever think of becoming career guidance counsellor?

    ps. you know for a person who posts a hell of a lot in the legal discussion forum - you really don't ever have anything of material substance to contribute.

    That's not completely fair. I saw how upset some of you kids were, so I went trawling for entry level legal positions. Sorry I didn't find any, but I did find positions for truck drivers and plummers. If I was a career guidance counsellor, I would probably say have to say in fairness, get a hgv licence.

    It's difficult for anyone to post anything of material substance, as explicit legal opinions can not be offered. I have a very poor knowledge of the law, (this has cost me dearly) so my contributions can only be opinion or ancedotal. (most probably wrong)
    There are specific legal issues that hang over my head like the sword of Damocles,,,,,,,,,,, which I would just luurve good advice on. And bad advice in the past has got me into a lot more trouble.

    Congratulations on your 1.1 and your acceptance to Oxford, I really hope it works out for you.

    In fairness, I believe hard work should always be rewarded. But this is not the opinion of many, and this is not how the world works.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭hada


    krd wrote: »
    That's not completely fair. I saw how upset some of you kids were, so I went trawling for entry level legal positions. Sorry I didn't find any, but I did find positions for truck drivers and plummers. If I was a career guidance counsellor, I would probably say have to say in fairness, get a hgv licence.

    It's difficult for anyone to post anything of material substance, as explicit legal opinions can not be offered. I have a very poor knowledge of the law, (this has cost me dearly) so my contributions can only be opinion or ancedotal. (most probably wrong)
    There are specific legal issues that hang over my head like the sword of Damocles,,,,,,,,,,, which I would just luurve good advice on. And bad advice in the past has got me into a lot more trouble.

    Congratulations on your 1.1 and your acceptance to Oxford, I really hope it works out for you.

    In fairness, I believe hard work should always be rewarded. But this is not the opinion of many, and this is not how the world works.

    My advise to you is, please don't make this your happy hunting ground to make a mockery of the whole forum with posting of how you'd enjoy to see NQ Barristers on the dole line, etc. We all have opinions, good or bad as they might seem to be, and feel free to post them, but try and be a little more prudent in your delivery of them. Especially if the opinions are about as useful as the clap.


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