Technical swing question - clubface position at top of backswing.

Mr. Larson · 12-08-2008 09:08PM #1

Hi folks, difficult to explain technical swing issues on the internet but here goes. Does anyone else have difficulty keeping the clubface open at the top of the backswing?

I've been pulling a lot of my shorter irons recently, hitting them left and have had to aim well right to compensate, which has encouraged a pretty severe draw, almost a hook with my shorter irons. I think it's down to keeping the clubface closed througout my backswing. Was at the driving range tonight and for the first time, I examined where the clubface was pointing at the back-most position of my backswing. I noticed the clubface at the top of my backswing (which is relatively short) is pointing way right of the target. I've always done it this way.

Correcting it, and getting the clubface actually facing the target at the top, it felt like I was actually rolling my hands over (left over right, clockwise) on the way back, which felt really weird. Is this what you are supposed to do? Is the clubface supposed to point to your target at the top?

I think I've become so accustomed to keeping the clubface closed at the top of the swing (and throughout), when I roll my hands open and open the clubface to face the target at the top of the swing, it feels really strange and as if I might not get the club back square in time and fan it out to the right.

As it happened, I was hitting the ball sweeter and straighter by doing this but I would be nervous to try it anywhere else other than on the range in case I make a total misfire, it just doesn't feel natural!

- My gut instinct is to train it like I'm doing it the new way (opening face out and rolling hands throughout backswing) and then just trust it when I get out on the course. What would people suggest firstly and does it sound like the new way is the correct way to move your hands and clubface on the way back?

Thanks in advance...:)

PhilipMarlowe · 12-08-2008 09:25PM

There are two things you can learn by stopping your backswing at the top and checking the position of your hands: how many hands you have, and which one is wearing the glove.

Sorry, couldn't resist!
I'm not a technical player at all so can't comment.

Mr. Larson · 12-08-2008 10:00PM

Licksy wrote: »

how many hands you have, and which one is wearing the glove.

:P - So if the logo on the glove is pointing 45 degrees to the right at the top, could that result in too much torque, or would that mean.... [Joking]

madds · 12-08-2008 10:24PM

Jabberwocky, I have the exact same problem in that I know the clubface is not pointing at the target at the top of my backswing. In order to correct this I too tried to roll the hands during the BS but it felt totally unnatural to me also.

I tried to address this last April but realized it was too late in the season to correct so am going to start working on it in October.

The lesson I received from a Carton pro was to introduce 2 checkpoints into the BS. The first checkpoint occurs when the clubhead is at 8 o'clock during the takeaway. The arms should be extended fully with the clubhead pointing vertically.

From this position it's just a case of making a full shoulder turn and you will automatically find the correct position at the top.

The pro suggested I try pausing the backswing at the 8 o'clock position to check that the clubhead and hands were in the right position, and then continue to the correct position at the top.

At least that's what I remember from the lesson last April!

Mr. Larson · 12-08-2008 10:35PM

Thanks Madds, it's interesting to hear you found it bit unnatural also. That sounds like a good drill... I'll defnitely give that a go and see if it works for me or how it feels. I'm leaning towards trusting the 'train it - trust it' mantra on this one and trying it during my next round (which will probably be in December when the weather improves a bit :rolleyes: ). Unluckily for me, my long game isn't in great shape at the minute so I can afford to tweak it at this point without risking messing me up completely...

Thanks again.

stockdam · 12-08-2008 10:47PM

I don't like examining the swing in detail. Sergio Garcia's positions are different to Harringtons and to Furyk's etc. but all are pretty effective. A repeating swing is better than one that is in the textbook positions (Darcy's swing is far from textbook).

I'd concentrate on the setup and the initial take away.

I'm probably wrong but I find golf hard enough without over analysing the swing.

Mr. Larson · 12-08-2008 10:55PM

stockdam wrote: »

I'm probably wrong but I find golf hard enough without over analysing the swing.

I know what you mean and accept the point about what's good and works for one might not work for another - but I'd wager you don't don't pull a lob wedge 5 yards left of the green from 80 yards very often...

Just something that occured to me on the range and thought it [closed face throughout] might explain why I've been doing it. I'm also making a conscious effort to get quality and not quantity of practice when at the range. Been leathering balls off the tee aimlessly for too long. You know what they say... "if you aim at nothing, you will hit it!"

stockdam · 12-08-2008 11:19PM

You haven't seen my short game - I can do anything. Actually my weakness is also pulling my wedges but that's because I often align my shoulders left of the target and then swing along this line and the ball goes where I am aiming.

I'd check that you aren't doing the same thing or that your grip isn't too strong. ANother suggestion is to grip very lightly and keep the hands passive.

slingerz · 12-08-2008 11:49PM

sounds like your over compensating. aim more left than you think you should. you'll naturally correct yourself and if you hit in straight then just realign and hit another and you've got your groove back. if this wasnt always there i'd say its a mental problem or else rustyness. examining your swing doesnt really work for me i think you should go with what your comfortable with. if i tried furyk's swing i'd hurt myself but he's a pro so he must be doing something right

PhilipMarlowe · 12-08-2008 11:51PM

Lob wedge from 80 yards may be some clue.... I've seen it done on the tv alright but how about trying to hit softer 3/4 shots from in close. I find I turn over shots most often when I hit them too hard (told you I'm not technical). 80 yards for me is a 80% shot with my 52/53 degree gap wedge.

ridonkulous · 13-08-2008 08:39AM

This video explains the golf swing pretty well and has some really good points.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HP0JDB77yY

I cant really get a clear image of what the problem you are having is so I wont comment. The only other advice i would give you is get a lesson. Ive at some point or another suffered from basically every problem you can encounter when swinging a golf club and I found Shane O'Grady (shameless plug) in Blackbush GC to be very good at fixing these problems, both temporarily and permanently.

Mr. Larson · 13-08-2008 08:53AM

Licksy wrote: »

Lob wedge from 80 yards may be some clue.... 80 yards for me is a 80% shot with my 52/53 degree gap wedge.

What I call my Lob Wedge is actually a 56 degree - probably not a lob wedge, more likely a gap or sand wedge maybe.

PhilipMarlowe · 13-08-2008 09:35AM

48 is a Pitching wedge and 56 is a Sand wedge so a Gap wedge slots in the middle at 52 (usually). Lob wedge is often 60 degree (anything from 58 to 65! degrees).
Hitting your 56 degree wedge from 80 yards seems perfectly ok to me (I don't carry one) so it's unlikely to be anything as simple as hitting too hard.

Another thing, have you been fitted for lie? I used to draw all my irons (and most particularly the short irons) until my lie angles were checked and flattened (a lot). My divots were always uneven with the heel of the club going deeper than the toe so that naturally the ball would draw. Since the lie angle was flattened, the club sits flatter and in theory the shots go straighter

Technical swing question - clubface position at top of backswing.

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