the popularisation and normalising of drug use!

Loomis · 30-07-2008 12:13PM

Wreck wrote: »

Don't forget the people who ingest large quantities of caffeine on a daily basis through coffee, tea and soft drinks, even in public! This kind of complacency sickens me.

Caffeine addictions from drinking coke or coffee tend not to turn into debilitating habits though...

AngryBadger · 30-07-2008 12:14PM

chopperbyrne wrote: »

You may not be selling it to them, but you are giving money to the people who are supplying these kids and thus prolonging the problem.

Cannabis is illegal you know :rolleyes:

Touche.

However I don't think we agree on the definition of what constitutes a problem. In my view if you're going to say cannabis is illegal, then you should also be saying alcohol and cigarettes are illegal, (I'm not commenting on other substances because I have no experience with them). Since we don't do that I think it could be argued fairly convincingly that laws making cannabis illegal are actually discriminatory.

And would you apply the same argument to people who drink alcohol in terms of them being responsible for the knacker drinking that a lot of teens get involved in.

My main problem here is that you have a substance like cannabis, which is not any more dangerous than alcohol/cigarettes, (less so according to many studies), and yet is illegal. So you have people who drink, can become violent, and cause all kinds of problems but that's fine because it happens to be legal, and you have people who smoke dope and go to jail for it, even though they spend their time high watching cheesey music videos and childrens programmes. There's no balance between the two.

dr.bollocko · 30-07-2008 12:16PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Drugs have and always will be in use. I am not denying or objecting to that fact. Where my issues lie is that drug use is becoming normal, so normal that children now accept it as being a natural thing to do instead of the dreadful illegal and disgusting act it was percieved to be little more than ten years ago. Its seen as normal as going to the pub for a pint nowadays, (and I do realise that alcohol is just a different form of drug). Some of todays favourite celebraties are seen as rolemodels for our children and they publicly use drugs and flaunts its affects but todays media seem to publicize this as normal activity. Drug use by consenting adults in a private controlled respected manner is IMO acceptable, but publicizing and normalizing it isn't. When did society start to accept the likes of Pete Dohery and Amy Winehouse as rolemodels? and why should our national radio (paid for from our taxes) be allowed to promote these people and fund there habits by playing their music?

The public perception of drugs is like the public perception of every perceived threat to society.
A bit of a smoke screen when you begin to view it objectively.

Also ten years ago it was not perceived by most as a dreadful illegal and disgusting act. Just the meeja and the "Im a mammy and..." brigade.
By that token, publicising it and normalising it is not ok in your eyes, right?
Well for the past ten years the media have gone on a tirade against drugs, touting ridiculous scare stories that turned out to be a load of bull****.
When people get fed bull**** they rebel against it.
If we had a policy where we could actually educate people about drugs rather than using the d word as a bogey man for teens older to know better we might have some healthier reactions to drug use.
And drug use and celebrities is as old as the hills. As old as time.
Look at the romantics, look at the beat generation. The hippie movement, every rockband ever, right back to tribal times, drugs and music, writing and art go hand in hand.
So you are saying we should censor every mention of drugs to not give our kids the knowledge that they even exist?
Read 1984 much?

Quazzie · 30-07-2008 12:17PM

Alcohol abuse and smoking in general are big issues for society and one that are being tackled, Cannabis abuse and drug abuse in general isn't because people woh protest are seen as squares as said before

AngryBadger · 30-07-2008 12:18PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Drugs have and always will be in use. I am not denying or objecting to that fact. Where my issues lie is that drug use is becoming normal, so normal that children now accept it as being a natural thing to do instead of the dreadful illegal and disgusting act it was percieved to be little more than ten years ago.

Do you not feel parents of these kdis have more direct responsibility than the faceless millions who make up "society"?

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

todays media seem to publicize this as normal activity.

The media markets what it knows people want to read, yes they do have a certain level of control over what people want to read, but ultimately if a large portion of the population didn't want to read about Amy Winehouse latest drug binge, then the media wouldn't be harping on about it.

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Drug use by consenting adults in a private controlled respected manner is IMO acceptable, but publicizing and normalizing it isn't. When did society start to accept the likes of Pete Dohery and Amy Winehouse as rolemodels? and why should our national radio (paid for from our taxes) be allowed to promote these people and fund there habits by playing their music?

Well I actually agree with you on this, unfortunately a lot of people do want to hear about the hi-jinx of a lot of these eejits, and so they get coverage, c'est la vie, unless everybody suddenly stops showing any interest.

EDIT: I have to ask though, if it's publicised and "normalised" does that not mean people would be mfree to talk about it, therefore more informed, and less likely to **** themselves up with drugs? Or do you think ta taboo situation where there is no information or open forum is better?

chopperbyrne · 30-07-2008 12:19PM

Alcohol and cigarettes are sold in licensed sellers and are (supposed to be) regulated.

No minors should be able to get alcohol or cigarettes and licensed sellers should have their license revoked if caught selling to minors.

However, cannabis is neither licensed or regulated which makes it a far worse problem at the moment.

*I'm not going to get into a discussion on which of these three is the least unhealthy. I'd happily see cigarettes made illegal too.

dr.bollocko · 30-07-2008 12:21PM

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Alcohol and cigarettes are sold in licensed sellers and are (supposed to be) regulated.

No minors should be able to get alcohol or cigarettes and licensed sellers should have their license revoked if caught selling to minors.

However, cannabis is neither licensed or regulated which makes it a far worse problem at the moment.

*I'm not going to get into a discussion on which of these three is the least unhealthy. I'd happily see cigarettes made illegal too.

Yeah.
Too right buddy.
Prohibition has always worked.

Quazzie · 30-07-2008 12:25PM

Addressing the current drug problem in an educated way is far better than brushing it under the carpet, and ignored as we have done in the past. Education about the real downfalls of drugs not only on a personal level but on a cultural level IMHO is the way forward. trying to change the general view that drugs are "cool" is the way forward. Knowing the real benefits and detremental effects of drugs i think is the way to helping people make an informed decision about whether they want to do them. My worry is that 10 years ago smoking and alcohol was the norm, now its cannabis and cocaine. In ten years time will it be heroin?

dr.bollocko · 30-07-2008 12:28PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Addressing the current drug problem in an educated way is far better than brushing it under the carpet, and ignored as we have done in the past. Education about the real downfalls of drugs not only on a personal level but on a cultural level IMHO is the way forward. trying to change the general view that drugs are "cool" is the way forward. Knowing the real benefits and detremental effects of drugs i think is the way to helping people make an informed decision about whether they want to do them. My worry is that 10 years ago smoking and alcohol was the norm, now its cannabis and cocaine. In ten years time will it be heroin?

I wouldnt worry.
If things moved that fast we would all be on the mugwump gism by now.

Captain Ginger · 30-07-2008 12:31PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

My worry is that 10 years ago smoking and alcohol was the norm, now its cannabis and cocaine. In ten years time will it be heroin?

I doubt it, I mean I wouldn't call cocaine the norm yet either, but there is a massive difference between lighting up a joint and taking heroin.

Quazzie · 30-07-2008 12:33PM

Captain Ginger wrote: »

I doubt it, I mean I wouldn't call cocaine the norm yet either, but there is a massive difference between lighting up a joint and taking heroin.

Tean years ago people said there was a massive difference between lighting a cigarette and rolling a joint. As for cocaine, it is readily available in any nightclub or nightscene in Ireland. It has gone from being the elitist drug to the common man's drug.

Captain Ginger · 30-07-2008 12:36PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Tean years ago people said there was a massive difference between lighting a cigarette and rolling a joint. As for cocaine, it is readily available in any nightclub or nightscene in Ireland. It has gone from being the elitist drug to the common man's drug.

Well I guess things change in time.

I for one don't and will never see the attraction to crap like heroin.

AngryBadger · 30-07-2008 12:37PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Tean years ago people said there was a massive difference between lighting a cigarette and rolling a joint. As for cocaine, it is readily available in any nightclub or nightscene in Ireland. It has gone from being the elitist drug to the common man's drug.

What's your point here? There still is a massive difference between lighting a cigarette and rolling up a joint...

Quazzie · 30-07-2008 12:38PM

AngryBadger wrote: »

What's your point here? There still is a massive difference between lighting a cigarette and rolling up a joint...

My point is that what was seen ten years ago as unacceptable now is acceptable

Captain Ginger · 30-07-2008 12:46PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

My point is that what was seen ten years ago as unacceptable now is acceptable

No it isn't, people do it (myself included) but it isn't acceptable by any means.

Loomis · 30-07-2008 12:49PM

brianthebard wrote: »

they can't see that because it would take a considered,informed person instead of a knee jerker.

Eating plants as a cave man and a strung out heroin junkie committing crime and/or spreading disease through sharing of needles aren't exactly the same thing

dr.bollocko · 30-07-2008 12:52PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

My point is that what was seen ten years ago as unacceptable now is acceptable

Well that statement is not true. Were you around as a lucid adult ten years ago.
Do you think that drugs were a big no-no back in the distant wild past of 1998?

dr.bollocko · 30-07-2008 12:53PM

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

Eating plants as a cave man and a strung out heroin junkie committing crime and/or spreading disease through sharing of needles aren't exactly the same thing

And everything in between the dawn of man and the dregs of man?

Cactus Col · 30-07-2008 12:59PM

10 years ago wasn't ecstasy all the rage?

Never got into much drug use myself. I do think it is a bit sad that so many people resort to them. There is a danger with hash that people rely on it a bit too often when they've nothing to do. I think it was in South Park where they came to the conclusion that hash made being bored alright.

I know some people who have reduced the amount they smoke and feel much better and brighter for it, and have become a bit more active and engaging.

Whenever this topic is raised the side defending drug use always seems to get a bit overly defensive and will attack things that are legal (such as smoking, drinking,etc). Such arguments don't really do anything to convince the other side that some drug use may be okay.

Dragan · 30-07-2008 01:04PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

My point is that what was seen ten years ago as unacceptable now is acceptable

Go back far enough and the colour of your skin dictated where you sat on the bus and what was between your legs dictated whether you could vote.

Back in the day it was perfectly fine to call a black dog "******".

Thankful, things that will not always be as they "are".

Quazzie · 30-07-2008 01:05PM

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Well that statement is not true. Were you around as a lucid adult ten years ago.
Do you think that drugs were a big no-no back in the distant wild past of 1998?

I was 18 at the time and a few of my friends done hash but they were generally seen as outsiders and that what they were doing was wrong. I also know there was nearly no one younger than me doing it at the time

Quazzie · 30-07-2008 01:06PM

Dragan wrote: »

Go back far enough and the colour of your skin dictated where you sat on the bus and what was between your legs dictated whether you could vote.

Back in the day it was perfectly fine to call a black dog "******".

Thankful, things that will not always be as they "are".

So are we better as a society for that Dragan

dr.bollocko · 30-07-2008 01:06PM

The main issue with drug use arguments is one of moral relativism.

Any student in the country is not going to see an issue with having a few spliffs, whereas most mothers would shoot their kids for even going near people who go near drugs.
So the people who believe the negative myths about drug use vs. the people that have seen from personal use that these myths are not true.

People who argue on the opposite side to mine also revert to the addicts argument. there are a lot of fallacies involved in trying to argue either point.
it's all best left alone really.

Quazzie · 30-07-2008 01:09PM

dr.bollocko wrote: »

The main issue with drug use arguments is one of moral relativism.

Any student in the country is not going to see an issue with having a few spliffs, whereas most mothers would shoot their kids for even going near people who go near drugs.
So the people who believe the negative myths about drug use vs. the people that have seen from personal use that these myths are not true.

People who argue on the opposite side to mine also revert to the addicts argument. there are a lot of fallacies involved in trying to argue either point.
it's all best left alone really.

Brush stuff under the carpet much?

Oh ignorance is bliss!

Kold · 30-07-2008 01:09PM

Drug abuse has been popular and normal for millenia.

Dragan · 30-07-2008 01:10PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

So are we better as a society for that Dragan

You need to be a bit more specific as i don't know what you are referring to here.

Better as a society for slowly overcoming racism and sexism?

I would have thought that was obvious.

30-07-2008 01:14PM

gixerfixer wrote: »

Anyone who uses drugs either coke,E or heroin are life's losers

Not sure if you're serious or not, so i'll ignore.

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Where my issues lie is that drug use is becoming normal, so normal that children now accept it as being a natural thing to do

What? Says who? The children? Or are you presuming this on the basis that a few underage 'hardchaws' are smoking in your neighbourhood?

I know plenty of kids who do not consider it normal, and while my 'evidence' is as anecdotal as yours, you are the one trying to assert something here so I've no idea on what basis you are assuming this.

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Alcohol and cigarettes are sold in licensed sellers and are (supposed to be) regulated.

No minors should be able to get alcohol or cigarettes and licensed sellers should have their license revoked if caught selling to minors.

However, cannabis is neither licensed or regulated which makes it a far worse problem at the moment.

Therefore, the logical solution to this would be to legalise cannabis and license/regulate its sale. No minors should be able to get cannabis and licensed sellers should have their license revoked if caught selling to minors.

I've added the paragraph in colour because until i finished reading your post, i thought that was the direction you were heading. In fact, it is one of the best arguments that the 'pro' side use in the debate about legalisation/declassification.......(without opening up that whole can of worms)

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Tean years ago people said there was a massive difference between lighting a cigarette and rolling a joint. As for cocaine, it is readily available in any nightclub or nightscene in Ireland. It has gone from being the elitist drug to the common man's drug.

As has been pointed out, there still is a massive difference between joints and smokes (cigs).

Also, I refute your point that it is "readily available in any nightclub or nightscene in Ireland". It is not. I've been in the company of people who've tried and failed to obtain it on more than one occasion. They can get it easily enough during the day or beforehand or whatever but there are f*ck all people selling 'sneachta' in clubs simply because the risks are too big and they can sell it from the comforts of their own home/car a lot easier. Anyone who is selling it in nightclubs is an idiot.

It also has not "gone from being the elitist drug to the common man's drug" either. Coke is sold by weight or, more commonly, in bags costing €100 which weigh between 1.2g and 1.5g usually (approx 6-7 lines). This wouldn't last long if the user was used to snorting (also dependant on quality). It also makes you drink like a fish 'cos it parches you and numbs your throat so you lash the gargle out of it and it also keeps you awake for longer meaning you can drink more for longer periods. If you think the 'common man' spends €250+ on drink on drugs in a single night then I've no idea who you're hanging out with but for the love of god ask them for a loan of a few quid 'cos i'm f*cking broke.

dr.bollocko · 30-07-2008 01:15PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Oh ignorance is bliss!

Well now that is strange my dear because you don't seem too happy....

And you have said nothing to point me to a solid argument you are making.
Vague references to "Back in the day twas all grand" that are just absolute nonsense.
Then more "Its the musician's fault. They're role-models" as if ten years ago all the musicians in the world were clean living jesus lovers.

Then you relate personal experiences which seem to you to be some sort of esoteric insight into the world we live in today.
When it's actually the world that everyone has been living in for at least ten thousand years.
So if you can come down off of that high horse and actually see beyond your own experience to what the rest of the world is telling you then you might actually learn something rather than looking for a statement to condescend to.
and THIS VERY POST and the inevitable reply, my dear, is the reason why I said it's all best left alone really.

sunnyse · 30-07-2008 01:16PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

I was 18 at the time and a few of my friends done hash but they were generally seen as outsiders and that what they were doing was wrong. I also know there was nearly no one younger than me doing it at the time

I assume you mean no-one younger than you that you knew of Because 10 years ago there were any amount of under 18s smoking dope.
As other posters have said, drug use has gone on for generations and little has changed in the last 10 years. Think of most of the musical influences back to the 50s and 60s and many many of them were using some kind of illicit drugs.

thelordofcheese · 30-07-2008 01:29PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Does anybody else find it disturbing that drug use has become so common and so accepted in Irish culture. I for one have never smoked or used drugs so I can't claim to know the 'benefit' of any of these but I just feel its taken nearly no time at all from going from knocking down drug dealers doors in the late 80's early 90's to suddenly seeing some smoking hash, or snorting a line and not passing a second glance. when did it all become so normal?

This is my reasoning

the popularisation and normalising of drug use!

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