Big Brother Style RFID electronic border controll being introduced between UK & Eire

Run_to_da_hills · 25-07-2008 11:43AM #1

This was blatantly denied by there home office last year that such would happen, Now we are being told that they will be introducing a draconian electronic border control I.E the eventual use of RFID passports and smart cards to enter the UK or Ireland. (All passports have RFID since October of 2006 and any new proposed ID card will incorporate it)

They say that these measures are to curb people trafficking,drug smuggling , illegal migration and terrorism. This is about to turn Ireland and UK into the same type big brother state as the USA with their proposed REAL ID card, Any person serious on trying to avoid the authorities will not take a Ryanair flight ot the Sealink in the first place :rolleyes:

Every thing about you will be disclosed before you enter or leave Ireland, from revenue, traffic offences, any recorded violation, anyone who has had a hint of trouble in the past will be hauled in for hours and grilled by the authorities, Welcome to the new police state,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7523435.stm

Overheal · 25-07-2008 11:45AM

Aye I found it silly all the same.

On a related note though how does this affect "The Boatride"?

Steve_o · 25-07-2008 11:51AM

Mr.S wrote: »

'bout time.

Though i will miss the Garda Immigration at Dublin Airport, i swear, they just wave people through in the EU section, dont even look at the passport!

I rely on this as my passport photo was taken 7 years ago, I know have long hair and a beard....

m@cc@ · 25-07-2008 12:07PM

Mr.S wrote: »

'bout time.

Though i will miss the Garda Immigration at Dublin Airport, i swear, they just wave people through in the EU section, dont even look at the passport!

I found that too, the scary thing being I was on a flight from Bratislava.

Danbo! · 25-07-2008 12:18PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Every thing about you will be disclosed before you enter or leave Ireland, from revenue, traffic offences, any recorded violation, anyone who has had a hint of trouble in the past will be hauled in for hours and grilled by the authorities,

So? who cares apart from people with serious crimes in their past.

So what, im going on a trip to england and I got caught speeding 3 years ago. Cue a rendition flight and a grilling from the authorities? No.

FunkZ · 25-07-2008 12:26PM

I gots nothing to hide...

<.<
>.>

Run_to_da_hills · 25-07-2008 12:58PM

noblestee wrote: »

So? who cares apart from people with serious crimes in their past.

So what, im going on a trip to england and I got caught speeding 3 years ago. Cue a rendition flight and a grilling from the authorities? No.

There are plenty of people out there that have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. EG, you were attending at a civil rights march in the city or a football match that gets dirty and an image is taken by facial recognition CCTV, your name is now on the list. The next time you get off the boat in the at Holyhead you are pulled in by the authorities as a "terrorist suspect"

I know a guy that was caught with an ounce of blow over 20 years ago on a raid in his flat in London, to this day he still has hassle with the cops over the matter ,i.e. gets his car stripped down by UK customs every time he gets off the boat at Holyhead and this is without any "electronic surveilance".

Run_to_da_hills · 25-07-2008 01:19PM

Mr.S wrote: »

His own fault.. no blow, no searches.

An ounce of blow is nothing and would be considered P.U in many countries.

Dave! · 25-07-2008 01:28PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

An ounce of blow is nothing and would be considered P.U in many countries.

Did he not know the law? It's clearly the law you have a problem with, not the questioning.

If he murdered someone would it be okay to question him 20 years later? Yes? So it's just the law on blow that you disagree with.

Glad we could clear that up, next please.

andrew · 25-07-2008 01:36PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Every thing about you will be disclosed before you enter or leave Ireland, from revenue, traffic offences, any recorded violation, anyone who has had a hint of trouble in the past will be hauled in for hours and grilled by the authorities, Welcome to the new police state,

I highly doubt everything would be disclosed. IMO if you have a criminal record then its right that authorities in other countries know about it. People with a past history of crime generally tend to commit more crime than those without a criminal past. Also, maybe your mate gets stopped constantly because he looks like a dodgey fucker? If he's had a flat of his raided before, I'm guessing he probably is.

DubTony · 25-07-2008 01:40PM

Dave! wrote: »

Did he not know the law? It's clearly the law you have a problem with, not the questioning.

If he murdered someone would it be okay to question him 20 years later? Yes? So it's just the law on blow that you disagree with.

Glad we could clear that up, next please.

If he murdered somebody 20 years ago, and had since been released, it would only be appropriate to question him if there was evidence that connected him to the scene of a crime. Just because he was guilty once doesn't automatically make him a suspect of any crime.

Stabshauptmann · 25-07-2008 01:46PM

Dave! wrote: »

Did he not know the law? It's clearly the law you have a problem with, not the questioning.

If he murdered someone would it be okay to question him 20 years later? Yes? So it's just the law on blow that you disagree with.

Glad we could clear that up, next please.

Wish there was a thanks button in AH

DubTony · 25-07-2008 01:50PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

...
Every thing about you will be disclosed before you enter or leave Ireland, from revenue, traffic offences, any recorded violation, anyone who has had a hint of trouble in the past will be hauled in for hours and grilled by the authorities....

Are you saying that all this information is contained on the card or document you produce to identify yourself? I'm sure that's not how it works. British authorities would have to have received a persons "file" to get this info. I can't imagine that information regarding a drink driving conviction or even a jail term for "non-terrorist offenses" would be shared for every citizen in the country.

Run_to_da_hills · 25-07-2008 02:02PM

DubTony wrote: »

Are you saying that all this information is contained on the card or document you produce to identify yourself? I'm sure that's not how it works. British authorities would have to have received a persons "file" to get this info. I can't imagine that information regarding a drink driving conviction or even a jail term for "non-terrorist offenses" would be shared for every citizen in the country.

All this information is contained on a central database that will be accessed as soon as your RFID based smart card / passport is swiped. Your photo image will show up along with a string of other personal details.

If you have been following the news recently road traffic penalty points will carry across the UK, Ireland and NI, this would include drink driving. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0626/breaking27.htm

Steve · 25-07-2008 02:39PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

All this information is contained on a central database that will be accessed as soon as your RFID based smart card / passport is swiped. Your photo image will show up along with a string of other personal details.

That quite frankly scares the shit out of me. I have worked on projects using passive RFID tags and readers and the data can can quite easily be read from a few feet away - it does not need to be swiped. Anyone of ill intent who is technically capable could easily wander around an airport skimming data from peoples passports - a bit like the ATM skimmers are doing at present.

DubTony · 25-07-2008 02:42PM

Fair enough. This has to do with penalty points and driving disqualifications, but according to the article in the Times won't happen with Britain for 4 or 5 years.
Maybe I'm a bit naive about this stuff but how do they get the other info - photo and "string of other personal details"?

All this information is contained on a central database that will be accessed as soon as your RFID based smart card / passport is swiped. Your photo image will show up along with a string of other personal details.

SteveC wrote:

... could easily wander around an airport skimming data from peoples passports - a bit like the ATM skimmers are doing at present.

But to what end? What information is on the card / passport? Isn't the info on a database normally just the info that the database owner puts on it? So a card / passport simply has name, rank and serial number information. Doesn't it?

robinph · 25-07-2008 02:52PM

How is having the RFID etc in our passports supposed to stop people smuggling? I thought they all got smuggled inside containers or such like anyway so us walking openly across the border having a chip in the passport will do nothing to help them find people hidden in the back of a lorry. If someone walks across a border with a dodgy looking passport, or just plain looking dodgy then you stop them. Why does it need a computer to tell them to do that?

Dave! wrote: »

If he murdered someone would it be okay to question him 20 years later? Yes?

No it wouldn't be OK to stop and ask questions purely based on that previous conviction.

Procasinator · 25-07-2008 03:13PM

SteveC wrote: »

That quite frankly scares the shit out of me. I have worked on projects using passive RFID tags and readers and the data can can quite easily be read from a few feet away - it does not need to be swiped. Anyone of ill intent who is technically capable could easily wander around an airport skimming data from peoples passports - a bit like the ATM skimmers are doing at present.

The RFID chips would have nothing but an ID, much like your user id being 61898. These ID's don't do much alone - you need access to the database to get information about the passport holder.

Really, this hasn't changed all that much - the passports could have a written unique number (e.g. the passport number) which security could type in manually to get all your info; this just makes the process quicker.

robinph · 25-07-2008 03:16PM

Procasinator wrote: »

Really, this hasn't changed all that much - the passports could have a written unique number (e.g. the passport number) which security could type in manually to get all your info; this just makes the process quicker.

...and removes your chance of not handing over ID which I think is part of the reason for them kicking up a stink in the UK about the ID cards. As there is no requirement for us to have to carry ID whilst walking along the street, having an RFID chip on you means that your ID could be checked remotely as you walk past without you knowing about it.

chuci · 25-07-2008 03:32PM

if you got nothing to hide i dont really see the problem like.

Steve · 25-07-2008 03:35PM

DubTony wrote: »

But to what end? What information is on the card / passport? Isn't the info on a database normally just the info that the database owner puts on it? So a card / passport simply has name, rank and serial number information. Doesn't it?

Procasinator wrote: »

The RFID chips would have nothing but an ID, much like your user id being 61898. These ID's don't do much alone - you need access to the database to get information about the passport holder.

Really, this hasn't changed all that much - the passports could have a written unique number (e.g. the passport number) which security could type in manually to get all your info; this just makes the process quicker.

They can already automatically read the passport number - they don't have to type anything. What is the RFID going to add if it is only storing a number?

/gets tinfoil hat.

Steve · 25-07-2008 03:38PM

robinph wrote: »

...having an RFID chip on you means that your ID could be checked remotely as you walk past without you knowing about it.

...and your movements tracked - another reason the law abiding people will carry them and the crims won't.

MOH · 25-07-2008 05:34PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This was blatantly denied by there home office last year that such would happen, Now we are being told that they will be introducing a draconian electronic border control I.E the eventual use of RFID passports and smart cards to enter the UK or Ireland. (All passports have RFID since October of 2006 and any new proposed ID card will incorporate it)

They say that these measures are to curb people trafficking,drug smuggling , illegal migration and terrorism. This is about to turn Ireland and UK into the same type big brother state as the USA with their proposed REAL ID card, Any person serious on trying to avoid the authorities will not take a Ryanair flight ot the Sealink in the first place :rolleyes:

Every thing about you will be disclosed before you enter or leave Ireland, from revenue, traffic offences, any recorded violation, anyone who has had a hint of trouble in the past will be hauled in for hours and grilled by the authorities, Welcome to the new police state,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7523435.stm

Where does it say any of that in the link?

Run_to_da_hills · 25-07-2008 05:38PM

MOH wrote: »

Where does it say any of that in the link?

Did I mention that any of this was in that link? :rolleyes:

robinph · 25-07-2008 05:42PM

Mr.S wrote: »

and? im still failing to see the problem..

...and I'm failing to see how this benefits anybody other than the company that manufactures the RFID chips. Does not prevent terrorism, does not prevent people trafficking, does not prevent anything at all ever or make anybody safer.

It does however get people used to the idea of carrying around a form of ID that can be remotely checked without their knowledge, and if you follow that train of thought through you end up back in 1984.

R0ot · 25-07-2008 05:52PM

/me can see check points being erected along the Donegal/Derry boarder again..

Run_to_da_hills · 25-07-2008 06:02PM

R0ot wrote: »

/me can see check points being erected along the Donegal/Derry boarder again..

Nope, just an overhead gantry with RFID pick up along with ANPL cameras that can recieve infromation from your RFID electronic toll plasa device or car registration plate.

ART6 · 25-07-2008 06:08PM

Since the defence against terrorism has already caused the declaration of war on and the invasion of two countries with countless civilian deaths maybe we should be thankful that this is all our democratic representatives are planning. Union of Socialist Soviet Republics of Europe has a certain ring to it:)

Danbo! · 25-07-2008 06:09PM

so, run_to_da_hills, come one, what have you got to hide?

I really dont understand why people care if other countries want info on you if you are planning to enter it. so what? You're not a terrorist (i assume) so who cares?

shayser · 25-07-2008 06:40PM

RFID is happening; and not just for passports. Livestock RFID is pretty advanced, RFID for all drugs will be a legal requirement in California soon. It's in consumer products. It's fully implemented for some scenarios in the US, bullied into existence by likes of the Walmarts and the Krogers and the Supervalues. Police and soldiers in the US have them in their arms.

Realistically, it's not going to stop there. It can only get bigger. What might be next? They are so small, anything and everything is possible. As said, it's ideal to replace the multiple forms of ID we use now, passport, driving licence, birth cert etc. One simple tiny (nano) identifier to replace all. Need to pass the toll booth? No need to stop. Need to board the plane, the boat? Walk on through, sir. Perhaps, a library book? Scan here, sir. In a few years, when it's seen to work so well, will we see credit card companies introduce them? No need to queue at the checkout. Move your RFID over the product as you put in your basket and just walk out the door. No more queueing at the cinema. Sounds great.

Only thing is, if it doesn't work right, for whatever reason, well some poor sod isn't going to exist, is he?

Procasinator · 25-07-2008 06:44PM

RFID is not without it problems, for instance:
http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2006/01/05/german-privacy-hackers-develop-rfid-zapper

Big Brother Style RFID electronic border controll being introduced between UK & Eire

RFID identification between UK & Ireland....Is it a treat or a benefit? 7 votes

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