Normal roads in Ireland a disgrace and embarassment

darkman2 · 19-07-2008 03:43AM #1

Forget about the motorways - our roads are a complete disgrace. Why can people who dig up our resurfaced roads not put the tarmac back properly? Are they incapable of making potholes or raising pieces unnesacarily? This never EVER happens in the US or Europe. They repair roads properly - we dont. Why is this? Why is there still potholes so close to Dublin? Why did I visit Finland and discover how immaculate and great their roads are compared to ours (these roads suffer Ice and rain 130 days of the year)? Not one pothole, surface as smooth as a baby's backside. Why can we not achieve this standard? Its embarrassing for all of us.

19-07-2008 05:15AM

A lot of the time a temporary "patch" is placed over the hole while the subsoil settles back down, a few weeks later (hopefully) it's replaced by the final surface.

There's a reluctance to get overuse "waker" plates to compact the soil while filling because most new services use plastic pipes, high risk of wacking 'em flat!

slimjimmc · 19-07-2008 11:56AM

There's shoddy work abroad too but at least they do something about it!

I remember one of those UK consumer programmes in the telly box did a feature a year or two ago on sub-standard road repairs in 1 particular council area. Companies digging up roads frequently failed to repair them properly.

Here's my synopsis, the details may not be 100% but you'll get the gist.....

A local council was concerned that roads were not being properly reinstated after road works. So it began investigations. It discovered the guys were simply backfilling with the material dug out (sometimes piling it up over the surface) and compacting it down with their size 10 work boots. On an odd occasion they might drive over it a few times with the digger if it was still about. Then they would dump a bit of tar & chippings over the top, pack up and go. This result of their substandard* workmanship was a hump which would quickly become a slump/pothole through traffic impact and natural settlement. (sound familiar ?)

The council's response? Give the companies an ultimatum: redo the repairs correctly or face heavy fine+cost of repair. And to make sure, the council sent out an inspector to every road work while the job was being done, not just after.

This approach was very effective in stamping out dodgy road works in that council's area.

* Backfill to be progressively finer layers of aggregate with each layer wacked before adding the next one. Backfill up to the base of original tarmac layer then finish off with fresh tarmac (a splash of tar and a bucket of chippings not acceptable) flush with the original road surface. My understanding is that there is a UK standard (BS ????) governing road repairs

AlekSmart · 19-07-2008 01:08PM

Excellent thread this.

One of the most discouraging aspects of driving or riding in Ireland is the abysmal condition of our secondary road network.

We are all well used by now to Ministerial press-releases about yet another by-pass or motorway being opened.

However each Km of new Primary road now comes with a penalty as it requires an appropriately higher level of ongoing maintenance,the cost of which will eventually be pared from "ordinary" budgets.

For far too long the contractors,many of whom are affiliated in some form to the "developers" who populate the Fianna Fail tent at Galway Races,have run their own show when it comes to civil engineering work for local authorities.

A lack of adequate supervision and direction from Local Authorities has given the contractors free rein to leave all sorts of negligently finished work about the place.

I defy anbody to travel along Mount St in Dublin and describe it as anything less than a travesty of civil engineering and a slap in the face to motorists and pedestrians expected to use it.

Part of the problem lies in the "close" relationship between all of the parties involved,with Golf courses being the favoured location for hammering out any difficulties which arise....as cost-effectively as possible for the contractor of course :eek:

The acid-test for me is quite simple and revolves around the Manhole Cover.
If I can ride from Holyhead to London and be able to ride across the manhole covers without even being aware of it then I want to know what section of the Irish Civil Engineers manual insists on ALL such covers being either elevated or depressed at least 25mm from the surrounding road surface.......

Try this test drivers....deliberately seek out those covers and feel my point !!!

gurramok · 19-07-2008 06:49PM

How about starting a pothole thread and people post up results of potholes and their subsequent makeshift or professional repair?

Sponge Bob · 19-07-2008 07:11PM

slimjimmc wrote: »

This approach was very effective in stamping out dodgy road works in that council's area.

The dodgiest road works in Galway are carried out by the county council themselves.

murphaph · 19-07-2008 10:29PM

slimjimmc wrote: »

There's shoddy work abroad too but at least they do something about it!

I remember one of those UK consumer programmes in the telly box did a feature a year or two ago on sub-standard road repairs in 1 particular council area. Companies digging up roads frequently failed to repair them properly.

Here's my synopsis, the details may not be 100% but you'll get the gist.....

A local council was concerned that roads were not being properly reinstated after road works. So it began investigations. It discovered the guys were simply backfilling with the material dug out (sometimes piling it up over the surface) and compacting it down with their size 10 work boots. On an odd occasion they might drive over it a few times with the digger if it was still about. Then they would dump a bit of tar & chippings over the top, pack up and go. This result of their substandard* workmanship was a hump which would quickly become a slump/pothole through traffic impact and natural settlement. (sound familiar ?)

The council's response? Give the companies an ultimatum: redo the repairs correctly or face heavy fine+cost of repair. And to make sure, the council sent out an inspector to every road work while the job was being done, not just after.

This approach was very effective in stamping out dodgy road works in that council's area.

* Backfill to be progressively finer layers of aggregate with each layer wacked before adding the next one. Backfill up to the base of original tarmac layer then finish off with fresh tarmac (a splash of tar and a bucket of chippings not acceptable) flush with the original road surface. My understanding is that there is a UK standard (BS ????) governing road repairs

I saw that too and I think of it every time I drive along roads such as the R134 Nangor Road and the R121 Lucan-Clonsilla road and the road running through Damastown Industrial Estate in Mulhuddart-all having been extensively dug up to facilitate the Metropolitan Area Network fibre cables for the ESB (It was Rilmount who did the work on contract) and which have NEVER been the same since. Undulating repairs and tar banding* everywhere. To make it worse, yet again the R121 along the same stretch is currently being dug up for a water pipe and the (I sincerely hope) temporary trench repair is an absolute disgrace and dowright dangerous, even in a car. We also see regular use made of untextured inch thick steel plate as a temporary covering for excavations-THIS IS ACTUALLY ILLEGAL as the plate should be textured like any manhole cover to give adequate traction to a motorcycle especially in wet weather and while cornering.

*Tar banding is the liquid tar seam which is poured between a repair and the original asphalt surface to prevent water ingress. It should be poured very carefully so as to minimise the amount on the surface of the road because when it is wet it is smooth as ice and quite lethal to motorcycles.

DWCommuter · 20-07-2008 12:29AM

At the moment, nothing beats the Airton road in Tallaght. Its the point of this thread in pure motion.

steyr fan · 20-07-2008 12:45AM

I hit a pothole yesterday so bad I had to stop to make sure my car was not damaged. It wasn't. As I was getting back into my car, another car hit the same pothole, and got a puncture.

Why oh why do we as a nation put up with ****e standards? When we start to complain then maybe the county council latchcos will actualy do what they are paid to do.

Gonzo · 20-07-2008 03:41AM

Ireland is not alone when it comes to forgetting about roads that arent Motorways or Dual Carriageways, Spain has some reallly bad non-national roads as well, cracked and pot-holed to bits just like ours.

But yes it is a total disgrace, we have nice shiny motorways and hqdc's but our national secondary, R Roads and L Roads are an embarresement in most cases. Another thing that annoys me is when they decide to resurface the road but leave the hard-shoulder untreated and covered in muck and potholes.

Another issue I have is when a Motorway is built, why is the old N road suddenly downgraded to an R road.

20-07-2008 04:12AM

Gonzo wrote: »

Another issue I have is when a Motorway is built, why is the old N road suddenly downgraded to an existing R road.

Being a cynic, I recon it's simply to reduce it's maintanance costs down to that of an R or L road, the speed limit is also reduced - after a few years of reduced maintenance, the rediculously low speed limit may be necessary. :rolleyes:

D.L.R. · 20-07-2008 11:20AM

A few Secondary roads should be reclassified as Primary. N.Ireland has lots of Primary A roads criscrossing the countryside, presenting many travelling options, whereas the south has the Dublin roads, the Atlantic corridor, and that's pretty much it. We are too conservative with our Primaries, more needed around Dublin and in the midlands.

Sponge Bob · 20-07-2008 02:48PM

D.L.R. wrote: »

We are too conservative with our Primaries, more needed around Dublin and in the midlands.

The Drogheda-Mullingar-Tullamore-Portlaoise-Carlow-Enniscorthy corridor should become a Primary as should Nenagh-Birr-Tullamore .

Other than those these below are the primaries since 1994 and are pretty comprehensive ....albeit utterly ****e third world roads in many cases.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/si/0209.html

N1 to N33 ( inclusive) and N50 better known as M50 ...but only part of the M50 is a primary road, from the n3 to tallaght .

Basically we have loads of Primary Roads, scads of them.

The real question I think is What is a Major Inter Urban??? and what status does a major inter urban have in law....none I should think

By law Carlow seemingly has no greater status than Clonmel but we all know that in practise it does a lot better.

RadioCity · 20-07-2008 09:48PM

D.L.R. wrote: »

A few Secondary roads should be reclassified as Primary. N.Ireland has lots of Primary A roads criscrossing the countryside, presenting many travelling options, whereas the south has the Dublin roads, the Atlantic corridor, and that's pretty much it. We are too conservative with our Primaries, more needed around Dublin and in the midlands.

I think its very disappointing that the alternative to the Motorways are effectively anonymous (R132 etc etc) and should be at least designated National Secondary route. Nearly all UK motorways have a similarly numbered "A" road running roughly parallel to the motorway.

Danno · 20-07-2008 10:24PM

We should have them re-named A1 or A2 etc...

A=Alternative

L1011 · 20-07-2008 10:45PM

DWCommuter wrote: »

At the moment, nothing beats the Airton road in Tallaght. Its the point of this thread in pure motion.

I think I can count 5 different partial resurfacings on the bit of it I've to drive every day already...

Add to that that the original surface is just an asphalt skim over an older concrete surface!

20-07-2008 10:55PM

MYOB wrote: »

I think I can count 5 different partial resurfacings on the bit of it I've to drive every day already...

Add to that that the original surface is just an asphalt skim over an older concrete surface!

There's more to come at the Greenhills road end, a huge pile of ducting just waiting to be installed! Well thats sewers & electrics sorted just need Eircom and DCC to dig up for telecoms & water then we'll have a full house!

Climate Expert · 20-07-2008 11:22PM

Fully agree. We pay so much road tax, VRT, fuel duty and vat and most of it doesn't go back into the road infrastructure.

We can never achieve the levels of a lot of countries due to the amount of roads, population density and settlement patterns in Ireland but we can still do a lot better.

Have you ever driven through the main st. in Gort? This is the main road from the west to the south and its running throught he main st. of a busy town. Not only that but the surface is one of the worst I've driven on for any road.

Sponge Bob · 21-07-2008 12:10AM

Climate Expert wrote: »

Have you ever driven through the main st. in Gort? This is the main road from the west to the south and its running throught he main st. of a busy town. Not only that but the surface is one of the worst I've driven on for any road.

Gort is in the 3 year sapital plan that Galway county council have so it will be fixed by 2010 as long as the council receives its 2008 funding in each of the three years and no bridges fall down in Leenane

Mind you that particular plan , published in December 2007 also says ,

"N18 Gort to Crusheen commencing construction in first half of 2008."

Nahh, what !??!! Nahhhh , and pray tell whats this other item that may involve digging it all up again ???

"Water & Sewerage Schemes to Start after 2008 Gort Regional Water Supply Scheme"

We could be waiting a while you know, a bit of tar and chip in the interim may make it less painful .

aquascrotum · 25-07-2008 01:57PM

I don't understand why developers weren't forced to contribute to comprehensive infrastructure (ie roads) improvements during the boom. Instead we have numerous ludicrous instances of driving down a barely 2 lane track in the middle of nowhere, which suddenly widens, good road surface, footpaths, streetlighting etc as you drive past a housing development, before reverting to two lane track again. Piecemeal improvements were all that were asked for. Insane.

At the mo in Bettystown they're building a full scale Tesco and apartments, which will no doubt draw shoppers even from Drogheda. And the extent of the road improvements on the main death trap into the village from the Drogheda side is to fill in the (numerous!) verge potholes with gravel.

CoCo's are a joke for letting this happen. Since moving to the area I've actually sold my car as it had 18" alloys and stiff sports suspension, and the roads in the area were intolerable - I blew out 2 tyres and buckled one wheel in the space of 3 months all on local roads, none of which was due to speed.

loyatemu · 25-07-2008 02:38PM

Danno wrote: »

We should have them re-named A1 or A2 etc...

A=Alternative

or N1xx - ie the former N7 become the N107 and so forth.

on the other hand I understand that they want to encourage people to use the new roads for long distance journeys.

Normal roads in Ireland a disgrace and embarassment

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