Sarkozy: 'The Irish will vote again'

darkman2 · 16-07-2008 02:22AM #1

They take NO as not the answer. They want you to vote again. Jesus even if I was a YES supporter - as an Irish person the bullying is unacceptable. Why do people think they said other states to ratify - that is bullying because they are forcing Irish people to look at everywhere else (that where not given democratic referendum) and say do you want to be the odd one out?

I dont like being bullied - im voting no - I dont care about the treaty anymore.

Xavi6 · 16-07-2008 02:24AM

Down with this sort of thing

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 16-07-2008 02:26AM

Careful now.

javaboy · 16-07-2008 02:26AM

What are you whining about? In Zimbabwe, they don't get a free vote on anything.

We get two chances to exercise our democratic right to vote probably very close together and people complain?

As an Irish person your voting either way based on anything other than the treaty's content is unacceptable.

bronte · 16-07-2008 02:30AM

This guy seriously grinds my gears.

darkman2 · 16-07-2008 02:31AM

javaboy wrote: »

What are you whining about? In Zimbabwe, they don't get a free vote on anything.

We get two chances to exercise our democratic right to vote probably very close together and people complain?

As an Irish person your voting either way based on anything other than the treaty's content is unacceptable.

Hold on, the bullying is unacceptable. We are being bullied into holding another referendum. We said NO. Even the YES side must have reservations about how we are being treated. Its a disgrace which would not occur in France or Germany - when they say NO it means NO. When we say NO it means YES after another referendum.

Kold · 16-07-2008 02:43AM

I'd do his wife though.

Nick_oliveri · 16-07-2008 02:47AM

Tell you what would be better.... Three chances to vote on the same issue... (or abstain)

javaboy · 16-07-2008 02:54AM

darkman2 wrote: »

Hold on, the bullying is unacceptable. We are being bullied into holding another referendum. We said NO. Even the YES side must have reservations about how we are being treated. Its a disgrace which would not occur in France or Germany - when they say NO it means NO. When we say NO it means YES after another referendum.

Really I don't see what the problem is with voting again. If there are absolutely no changes to the Lisbon treaty and you are still happy with how you voted the first time, vote the same way again. It's no big deal. In fact I would have thought the more extreme anti-EU people would be delighted at another chance to vote no.

beautiation · 16-07-2008 02:59AM

Can we vote on Lisbons 3-7 at the same time? I'm a busy man y'know.

Mossy Monk · 16-07-2008 02:59AM

France are our overlords now?

Cowen should tell Sarkozy to get ****ed tbh.

ashlingm · 16-07-2008 03:01AM

do you honestly think if it had been a win for the yes vote last time that the no campainers would be allowed hold another referundum...eh dont think so.

I know my vote wont be changing...

javaboy · 16-07-2008 03:04AM

ashlingm wrote: »

do you honestly think if it had been a win for the yes vote last time that the no campainers would be allowed hold another referundum...eh dont think so.

I know my vote wont be changing...

Do you know how our system of democracy works? Why would the government that the people voted in hold a referendum to undo a change to our constitution that they themselves wanted in the first place?

anonymous_joe · 16-07-2008 03:09AM

How is it bullying?

We rejected the treaty once. Would we reject it a second time? If the answer's yes, so be it. If someone asked you if you were hungry, and you said no, if they asked you again later, the answer might have changed. A weak analogy I know, but it's bloody late.

Given the vast number of people who proclaimed ignorance of what the treaty was about, I would definitely advocate a second vote. I know people who voted yes and people who voted no without knowing why. I think people should be given far more information, and voting made compulsory.

darkman2 · 16-07-2008 03:10AM

javaboy wrote: »

Do you know how our system of democracy works?

Yes, when the people vote no in a referendum they mean NO.

Now we are being humiliated across Europe because they know we will vote again - because our vote is NOT respected.

beautiation · 16-07-2008 03:10AM

All this does is give rapists a leg to stand on in court:

Prosecutor:"She said no. No means no"
Defence: "That's not what this system thinks!"

sdanseo · 16-07-2008 03:11AM

What a disgrace, we have said NO. Anyone who even suggests another vote should be publicly castrated with a large spoon.

Martyr · 16-07-2008 03:12AM

Do you know how our system of democracy works?

Ireland voted NO ...what part of NO don't you understand?

If other countries such as the UK had been given the chance to vote, there is no doubt the result would be NO ..but then, the whole point of this treaty is to eradicate any kind of democracy we have left.

Sarkozy is basically saying "You are not allowed to say NO"

If they could, they'd probably beat you until you say "YES"

javaboy · 16-07-2008 03:14AM

darkman2 wrote: »

Yes, when the people vote no in a referendum they mean NO.

Now we are being humiliated across Europe because they know we will vote again - because our vote is NOT respected.

The people of Ireland voted in a government which wants to make the treaty law but they cannot change the constitution without a referendum. If people didn't want a pro-European government in power, they should have just voted Sinn Fein and be done with it. But if people are going to vote in a government that is pro-Europe then don't be surprised when they try to get European legislation passed.

javaboy · 16-07-2008 03:43AM

beautiation wrote: »

All this does is give rapists a leg to stand on in court:

Prosecutor:"She said no. No means no"
Defence: "That's not what this system thinks!"

That's hilarious. It's a false analogy though. The more accurate one would be the man asking her again. The man would be committing a crime by forcing himself on the woman and similarly the government would be violating our constitution by forcing the Lisbon treaty through as it stands.

sdonn_1 wrote: »

What a disgrace, we have said NO. Anyone who even suggests another vote should be publicly castrated with a large spoon.

I suggest another vote.

Average Joe wrote: »

Ireland voted NO ...what part of NO don't you understand?

If other countries such as the UK had been given the chance to vote, there is no doubt the result would be NO ..but then, the whole point of this treaty is to eradicate any kind of democracy we have left.

Sarkozy is basically saying "You are not allowed to say NO"

If they could, they'd probably beat you until you say "YES"

What do you realistically think will happen if you vote NO!!! again? And again if needs be? And again? How do you think they're going to force the changes on us?

Do you really think that Sarkozy is saying you're not allowed to vote no? Do you really think that they'd beat us if they could? I didn't realise we'd upped sticks and moved to Zimbabwe.

Dave! · 16-07-2008 04:02AM

This is an outrage

Cowen should just by-pass the people and ratify this treaty himself. Saves time and money -- we're in a recession here, we can't afford all those pens and bits of paper.

Martyr · 16-07-2008 04:02AM

javaboy wrote: »

I didn't realise we'd upped sticks and moved to Zimbabwe.

Then why vote at all? is that not what you believe democracy to be? to have a choice? or to have none at all? which is situation in Zimbabwe, maybe you should move there if you prefer having no choice.

Dont be at yourself · 16-07-2008 04:09AM

I'm all for the treaty, but this is hardly the way to go about it.

What if we vote no again? Will we have to vote for a third, fourth, fifth time, until we get it 'right'?

If it's a vote for the same treaty, it's a farce to have another vote - especially so close after the last treaty.

Jesus Wept · 16-07-2008 04:17AM

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G'WANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!

Overheal · 16-07-2008 04:26AM

At least you have a voting system thats proven to work. You don't have a computer going "Al Gore? That looks like a spelling error for 'George Bush' - let me just run the spell-check for you."

You effectively knew a second vote/referendum was going to happen, and that voting No was effectively a stall-tactic. And that political parties will now, hopefully, spend more time educating the common voter on the Treaty, so at least the second referendum is more informed than the last. I don't understand why you're all suddenly getting to prissy.

Its when you get to a third things start getting conspiratorial, don't jump the gun yet.

Karl Hungus · 16-07-2008 04:30AM

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

What if we vote no again? Will we have to vote for a third, fourth, fifth time, until we get it 'right'?

I think this is the crux of the issue right here.

We can back and forth about it all we can about whether the "No party" would be happy to say no a second time, but it's simply ignoring what the Irish people have voted for. We as a nation have voted no, and where does that get us? Back to square 1 and told to vote again? How is that in any way fair?

How many of the other EU states been asked to repeatedly vote until the outcome is the favoured one?

Dont be at yourself · 16-07-2008 04:44AM

You effectively knew a second vote/referendum was going to happen, and that voting No was effectively a stall-tactic.

Really? Funny, it didn't mention anything about a second-vote or a stall-tactic on the ballot paper. I though a 'no' vote meant that you rejected the treaty, not that you wanted to vote on it again in six months.

I don't understand why you're all suddenly getting to prissy.

Yeah, we're fussy old so-and-sos here, aren't we? Imagine taking umbridge to the fact that our clearly expressed democratic voice is being blatantly ignored because it's not what France wants to hear!

Why don't they just remove the No from the ballot paper altogether? If it's not going to be acknowledged and listened to, we may as well save on the ink.

Call Me Jimmy · 16-07-2008 05:02AM

Don't mistake this for me defending him because he seems like a douchebag anyway but a comment in a private meeting with his own people (the context of which hasn't been reported) hardly equates to bullying.

The bottom line is, no matter how many times he "bullies" us he can't force us to vote yes. Worst comes to worst, ye have to spend roughly 15 minutes voting again. Vote no if ye like and that's him told. If there is a regular bi-yearly vote on it, then yer free to vote out a government that is allowing that to happen. Don't over-dramatize the situation, though.

DarkJager · 16-07-2008 07:27AM

The best thing for us to do is vote No again, and again, and again until the likes of Sarkozy and his thick French skull get the message. He should also mind his own fcuking business, France has absolutely no say in what we do.

EDIT: Looks like his comments didn't go down too well with the government!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0716/eulisbon.html

super_furry · 16-07-2008 07:35AM

I didn't vote last time due to being on holiday. I would have leaned towards Yes, but if we're forced to vote again it'll definately be a no.

super_furry · 16-07-2008 07:36AM

Average Joe wrote: »

Then why vote at all? is that not what you believe democracy to be? to have a choice? or to have none at all? which is situation in Zimbabwe, maybe you should move there if you prefer having no choice.

Well what kind of democracy refuses to accept a democratic referendum? "Sorry lads, wrong answer. Try again."

Sarkozy: 'The Irish will vote again'

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