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Underground DART Line.

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    #2
    dobsdave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,814 ✭✭✭dobsdave


    I'm probably missing something here, but if you're going from Bray to Howth you have to change at Pearse?
    Whats happening to the line as it is now?
    Won't the metro cover all these stations anyway.


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    #3
    kravmaga
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭kravmaga


    dobsdave wrote: »
    I'm probably missing something here, but if you're going from Bray to Howth you have to change at Pearse?
    Whats happening to the line as it is now?
    Won't the metro cover all these stations anyway.

    We will be in our graves by the time the Metro is built, are ya kiddin me.


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    #4
    Gekko
    Registered Users Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Gekko


    If this isn't a recipe for more city centre chaos, I don't know what is


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    #5
    dobsdave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,814 ✭✭✭dobsdave


    blueeyedboy wrote: »
    We will be in our graves by the time the Metro is built, are ya kiddin me.

    Do you have any input on the questions I asked?


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    #6
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭markpb


    dobsdave wrote: »
    I'm probably missing something here, but if you're going from Bray to Howth you have to change at Pearse?
    Whats happening to the line as it is now?
    Won't the metro cover all these stations anyway.

    The dart + interconnector will be linked to form two new Dart lines, running in an X across the city. The main dart/dart interchange will be at Pearse like you said. There's a pretty good image on wikipedia. The metro won't affect the stations at all, it just gives extra interchange points at Stephens Green and Drumcondra. The line as it is will be kept but won't be used as a direct path, the advantage to this is that it removes line conflicts so trains should be able to run at higher frequencies than they currently are.


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    #7
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    markpb wrote: »
    The dart + interconnector will be linked to form two new Dart lines, running in an X across the city. The main dart/dart interchange will be at Pearse like you said. There's a pretty good image on wikipedia. The metro won't affect the stations at all, it just gives extra interchange points at Stephens Green and Drumcondra. The line as it is will be kept but won't be used as a direct path, the advantage to this is that it removes line conflicts so trains should be able to run at higher frequencies than they currently are.

    The original rail plan (around 2000) had very much the same interconnector proposal, but a different DART layout was envisaged. The existing Malahide/Howth to Bray/Greystones line was to stay as currently is (apart from a Northern extension), while a new loop line from Hazelhatch via Spencer Dock to Maynooth was to intersect at Pease and Eastwall (new station). However, I also think the current X proposal makes more sense as less people would need to interchange between lines (who for example, would want to go from Maynooth and end up doubling back to get to Parkwest). Nearly everyone on that line would be getting off in town, unlike the current Dart where many Southbound passengers travel to as far as Lansdowne Road. This would be quite a mess to be honest!

    Regards!


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    #8
    Sar!
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Sar!


    As Im sure everyone agrees, the transport system in Dublin is a complete mess as it is. All these systems DART, TRAIN, METRO, BUS, LUAS, I mean seriously when are we gonna get one decent system that services everywhere, properly? (Oh and of course using ONE ticket would be good! :))

    They need to seriously relook at the whole transport system in Dublin and create a proper system that works and services everywhere properly instead of building all these bits and pieces! (Ala if we got something like the underground in London and any other decent capital city in Europe!) I know, i know, everyone always says that because Dublin wasnt bombed thats why we are suffering now with no underground but i dont need to point out its greatly needed!

    Sorry for the rant but there are so many things they could do to try and solve the current problems first before they add another system to the mix and mess up the traffic even more with construction. For example moving level crossings in Dublin ABOVE or BELOW the ground so they can help the traffic problems would be nice to see.

    Dublin is a crazy mess when it comes to transport and being honest I cant see how adding an underground DART is really going to help anyone! No doubt it will have a fancy new seperate ticket system too - cant wait (oh but as blueeyedboy rightly said it wont be our lifetime anyway!)


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    #9
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    I think the underground dart will be hugely beneficial for Dublin. It will create a number of stops in the centre and connect to all rail modes (we hope). Its the keystone to the city network.

    But I do agree that small(er) things should be done in the meantime to relieve traffic chaos. A pet hate of mine is traffic light signalling on roads. Ever find yourself stuck at a red light watching tumbleweeds go by? If Dublin's traffic signals were "smarter" there wouldn't be so many clogged up roads. I can't really understand why nobody has addressed this (obvious) problem.

    As for rail, grade separating the major level crossings would be great but they really are jammed in there with very little room to spare. Huge engineering challenge. Love to see it done, mind!


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    #10
    HonalD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭HonalD


    D.L.R. - you've made a great point....as they say "where there is a will, there is a way..." make up your own mind!:)


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    #11
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users Posts: 29,294 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    is there any links or sites that show all the current routes and their conections, ie, luas, dart, comuter rail, all on one map, along with all the proposed routes, some thing similar to the london network map showing underground, tram, DLR and rail,

    would be interesting to see on one map how all these conect up, and how easy it would be to travel arcross dublin using them, for either the local or visitor


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    #12
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,266 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    http://www.transport21.ie/MAPS/upload/DrulinRailMapBG.jpg


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    #13
    ipodrocker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭ipodrocker


    the proposed plan sucks, my mate visits dun laoghaire often from killester so when it gets done he will have to change dart at pearse thats crazy!, great planning


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    #14
    dmeehan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭dmeehan


    ipodrocker wrote: »
    the proposed plan sucks, my mate visits dun laoghaire often from killester so when it gets done he will have to change dart at pearse thats crazy!, great planning
    well lets forget about everyone else in the city and build the railway to suit your mates needs


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    #15
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    ipodrocker wrote: »
    the proposed plan sucks, my mate visits dun laoghaire often from killester so when it gets done he will have to change dart at pearse thats crazy!, great planning

    We had heard of NIMBYs - Now we have NIMPs too (Not In My Path!)!!! :rolleyes:

    For goodness sake, I've travelled on the London Underground and Paris Metro years ago and in London, most journeys required at least one change (and the headway was often 5 minutes), and in Paris, 2 or 3 changes was pretty normal for any one journey (though the headway was about 2 minutes). In Dublin, the Dart Underground is expected to have a max headway of 3 minutes, while the existing Loop Line is expected to cater for at least 16 train slots each way an hour of which headway works out at around 4 minutes (though this includes suburban rail). With this in mind, interchanging shouldn't be such a massive ordeal. The proposed cross-over Dart system is the best solution as it best spreads out passenger egress patterns in the city each morning.

    Regards!


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    #16
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    ipodrocker wrote: »
    the proposed plan sucks, my mate visits dun laoghaire often from killester so when it gets done he will have to change dart at pearse thats crazy!, great planning

    So a plan which makes the DART a considerably better service but inconveniences your mate sucks. Could I see your detailed design and plans for a better one? I hope it will include proposed timings and frequencies of all trains at all pinch points too.


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    #17
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    paulm17781 wrote: »
    the proposed plan sucks, my mate visits dun laoghaire often from killester so when it gets done he will have to change dart at pearse thats crazy!, great planning
    Ipodrocker, I suggest you check out this map and follow some sample routes with your finger, and you'll realise that the DART Interconnector definitely deserves its description as the most important transport project in the country in terms of increasing railway use and making public transit easier to use. All of the current problems we experience in Dublin will be remedied by it. I don't use the term lightly but the Interconnector will REVOLUTIONISE public transport in this city.
    D.L.R. wrote: »
    But I do agree that small(er) things should be done in the meantime to relieve traffic chaos. A pet hate of mine is traffic light signalling on roads. Ever find yourself stuck at a red light watching tumbleweeds go by? If Dublin's traffic signals were "smarter" there wouldn't be so many clogged up roads. I can't really understand why nobody has addressed this (obvious) problem.
    Sorry mate but experience doesn't bear this out. All traffic lights in Dublin are controlled by SCATS, a computer system. Induction coils buried in the road at the lights detect a car coming up. If traffic is light or non existent, it immediately (in my experience within 3 secs) changes your light to green for you. Of course, at rush hour everything is busy, so you won't see anything like this.


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    #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    In Ireland there seems to be a big dislike towards changing services. Most rail services to Tralee involve changing at Mallow but if IÉ were to get rid of the direct service there would be uproar.

    I'm yet to be convinced that Ireland will be capable of delivering a project like this properly. We couldn't get the Port Tunnel right so I can't see the Interconnector being any different.


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    #19
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    Spacetweek, you have my name beside Ipodrocker's quote. Could you edit that? :)


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    #20
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,460 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Sorry mate but experience doesn't bear this out. All traffic lights in Dublin are controlled by SCATS, a computer system. Induction coils buried in the road at the lights detect a car coming up. If traffic is light or non existent, it immediately (in my experience within 3 secs) changes your light to green for you. Of course, at rush hour everything is busy, so you won't see anything like this.

    A lot of lights aren't using this system yet, at least out near me (south Dublin along the N11). It is good when it works though, I do think there should be a sign marking where the induction coil is, or on the traffic light, so people know to stop at the correct place if they want the light to change (ideally a small light to indicate that it's been activated).


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    #21
    pclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,939 ✭✭✭pclancy


    Could the existing liffey tunnel under phoenix park not be included in this somehow?


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    #22
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    pclancy wrote: »
    Could the existing liffey tunnel under phoenix park not be included in this somehow?
    That idea's been talked about a lot, but thoroughly debunked at this stage for a very simple reason: trains coming through that tunnel would end up at Connolly, an overcrowded, congested station with no further room for trains.


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    #23
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,533 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    spacetweek wrote: »
    That idea's been talked about a lot, but thoroughly debunked at this stage for a very simple reason: trains coming through that tunnel would end up at Connolly, an overcrowded, congested station with no further room for trains.

    They don't have to. They could go to Docklands


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    #24
    Thelikefaneire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭Thelikefaneire


    GerardKeating wrote: »
    They don't have to. They could go to Docklands

    Or Broombridge if IE had gotten their way and bought it back off Dublin Bus. Instead its reserved for the a Luas line they arent even building because the luas BX line to connect the green and red lines has been put on hiatus:confused:

    The interconnector is a really important project, but people have been saying for ages that it needs a better name! People remember the Dart, Luas and the Metro easily because they're so short, but inter-connect-tor? Try telling that to tourist's who barely speak english!:rolleyes:


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    #25
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭markpb


    Thelikefaneire wrote: »
    Or Broombridge if IE had gotten their way and bought it back off Dublin Bus. Instead its reserved for the a Luas line they arent even building because the luas BX line to connect the green and red lines has been put on hiatus:confused:

    The interconnector is a really important project, but people have been saying for ages that it needs a better name! People remember the Dart, Luas and the Metro easily because they're so short, but inter-connect-tor? Try telling that to tourist's who barely speak english!:rolleyes:

    When the interconnector is built, the Dart lines will be named Dart 1 and Dart 2, Interconnector is the project name for a short stretch of tunnel, nothing else so no tourist will need to know it.


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    #26
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,266 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Thelikefaneire wrote: »
    Or Broombridge if IE had gotten their way and bought it back off Dublin Bus. Instead its reserved for the a Luas line they arent even building because the luas BX line to connect the green and red lines has been put on hiatus:confused:
    CIÉ own all the land, not the subsidiaries. Do you mean Broadstone or Broombridge?


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    #27
    D.S.
    Registered Users Posts: 756 ✭✭✭D.S.


    This seems like an absolutely crucial piece of infrastructure which could simply and neatly link up the dart/luas/metro/rail transport types. Do people think this is really going to get its rail order (particularly in the current climate) or is it another pipedream??


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    #28
    mackerski
    Registered Users Posts: 2,277 ✭✭✭mackerski


    astrofool wrote: »
    I do think there should be a sign marking where the induction coil is, or on the traffic light, so people know to stop at the correct place if they want the light to change (ideally a small light to indicate that it's been activated).

    Yeah. Or maybe a white line just beyond the coil. So simple it might just work...


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    #29
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    D.S. wrote: »
    This seems like an absolutely crucial piece of infrastructure which could simply and neatly link up the dart/luas/metro/rail transport types. Do people think this is really going to get its rail order (particularly in the current climate) or is it another pipedream??

    I think it'll get the rail order etc. I just fear the plug will be pulled due to funding. This is one the government should borrow for if necessary.

    I noticed there's a downturn in the construction sector. This would employ quite a few...


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    #30
    D.S.
    Registered Users Posts: 756 ✭✭✭D.S.


    paulm17781 wrote: »
    I think it'll get the rail order etc. I just fear the plug will be pulled due to funding. This is one the government should borrow for if necessary.

    I noticed there's a downturn in the construction sector. This would employ quite a few...

    Well fingers crossed so that the government for once can show a bit of vision and long term (joined-up) thinking. It's a vital piece of work from what I can see - borrowing for this piece of infrastructure if it comes seems like a no-brainer.


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    #31
    j1smithy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 605 ✭✭✭j1smithy


    Karsini wrote: »
    In Ireland there seems to be a big dislike towards changing services. Most rail services to Tralee involve changing at Mallow but if IÉ were to get rid of the direct service there would be uproar.

    I'm yet to be convinced that Ireland will be capable of delivering a project like this properly. We couldn't get the Port Tunnel right so I can't see the Interconnector being any different.

    Whats wrong with the port tunnel? afaik it has done its intended task of taking lorries off the streets of dublin


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