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The Escapist : Zero Punctuation Game Reviews

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,834 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    New Zero Punctuation today: Metal Gear Solid 4


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,392 ✭✭✭✭kaimera


    Excellent review :D

    Not a fan per se of MGS but doesn't detract from the review. Bang on form!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭madrab


    yeah one of his better ones, full of vitriol :)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Very funny stuff, and no doubt is well prepared for the backlash from Kojima apologists; that man is in serious need of an editor as Yahtzee mentions


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7 Higgins113


    Man that MGS$ one was teh funnehs:pac:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    That was a pretty good one. It's nice to see my sentiments of the game in animated form :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,698 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    kaimera wrote: »
    Excellent review :D

    Not a fan per se of MGS but doesn't detract from the review. Bang on form!

    I am a fan of the MGS games, and even by my standards MGS4 is stretching it in alot of areas that yahtzee hit bang on (review pending completion)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 129 ✭✭andgoodbye


    I was too lazy to look through the 15+ pages of crap here so I'll just chip in with my contribution:
    "I, being White enough to afford all of the consoles..."

    Ahhh, political incorrectness to the highest degree


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭Ri_Nollaig


    andgoodbye wrote: »
    I was too lazy to look through the 15+ pages of crap here so I'll just chip in with my contribution:
    "I, being White enough to afford all of the consoles..."

    Ahhh, political incorrectness to the highest degree
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_collar

    although id imagine it was done to get just the reaction you made :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭MooseJam


    good review, I guess I won't be rushing out to buy a ps3 to play this


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  • Subscribers Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭conzy


    MooseJam wrote: »
    good review, I guess I won't be rushing out to buy a ps3 to play this

    If you took everything yahtzee says to heart you would never play games again.......


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    conzymaher wrote: »
    If you took everything yahtzee says to heart you would never play games again.......
    That's not true - he has reviewed manys a game that he overall enjoyed; from stuff he waxes lyrical about (Pyschonauts, Call of Duty 4) to games he admits weren't as bad as people were saying (Assassins Creed). Yahtzee just doesn't accept some of the polished turds that are passed off as AAA titles these days. with budgets sky rocketing in games making, it's a fair attitude to expect higher standards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,969 ✭✭✭robby^5


    Yahtzee's reviews are great, he's like the standup comic of reviewers. But I really pity anyone who takes what he says to heart and doesnt go out and buy some of the amazing games he's reviewed (yet torn to pieces). He basically focuses on whatever flaws a game has (and EVERY game has them, even game of the year material like mgs4) and explodes them.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 23,414 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kiith


    conzymaher wrote: »
    If you took everything yahtzee says to heart you would never play games again.......
    Thats not true...you'd play Portal :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭steviec


    Yahtzee is actually a fairly accurate reviewer I find. I agree with most of his reviews - even if he focusses heavily on the flaws in a game he'll still say he likes it overall, like the GTA or Assassin's Creed reviews, or the games he really loved like Portal or Psychonauts. And I especially like how he's not afraid to tear over-rated games to shreds if he really doesn't like them, like Halo 3 and Smash Bros being the more memorable ones, reviews I'd definitely agree with.

    There's one specific area where I disagree with his taste in games though and that's why I disagree with his MGS review. He tends to be of the belief that there's little place for story telling and dialogue in games - it was his main problem with MGS, it was his main problem with Mass Effect (another review I didn't agree with), and it's his main problem whenever he mentions JRPGs aswell.

    So in general I trust his reviews, but if it's a heavily story driven game like MGS or Mass Effect, I tend to disagree with his opinions but I can certainly respect them and he's always consistent. Once you dismiss Metal Gear's biggest strength, your bound to not like the rest of the game, but if you do enjoy the story like I do then you'll soon get taken in by the gameplay too because you'll come to love playing stealthily when you take the time to learn how.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭Slutmonkey57b


    steviec wrote: »
    There's one specific area where I disagree with his taste in games though and that's why I disagree with his MGS review. He tends to be of the belief that there's little place for story telling and dialogue in games - it was his main problem with MGS, it was his main problem with Mass Effect (another review I didn't agree with), and it's his main problem whenever he mentions JRPGs aswell.

    So in general I trust his reviews, but if it's a heavily story driven game like MGS or Mass Effect, I tend to disagree with his opinions but I can certainly respect them and he's always consistent. Once you dismiss Metal Gear's biggest strength, your bound to not like the rest of the game, but if you do enjoy the story like I do then you'll soon get taken in by the gameplay too because you'll come to love playing stealthily when you take the time to learn how.


    "In the past I've slagged off a lot of story based games for having too much story and not enough game" I think you'll find is what he has a problem with.
    His main problem with jrpgs as I recall is that he think they're all generic, repetitive clones of each other with annoying "random encounter" cutscene battles passed off as gameplay. He's got a pretty good point there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Rhyme


    robby^5 wrote: »
    Yahtzee's reviews are great, he's like the standup comic of reviewers.
    I've always thought of him as a professional troll... but one that makes me chuckle.

    I had to look twice at the title of todays review, he's beating on webcomics after writing an article not so long ago about what makes webcomics bad (and a massive somethingawful thread about how sh*t CAD is). Nice though, a lot of truth.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,484 ✭✭✭✭Stephen




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    This was very very good.
    In a nutshell CAD (the webcomic) is bad and if you like it you should feel bad.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    VERY scathing towards web-comics, though especially CAD of course. Very funny all the same (if a tad bitter ;))


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    i always said how the n00bs sure did love their ninjas :p


    yeah hes bang on tho. ive never ever seen the attraction of webcomics. and they arent funny


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭R0ot


    This was very very good.
    In a nutshell CAD (the webcomic) is bad and if you like it you should feel bad.

    Felt more like he was ripping on penny arcade and CAD


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭Jack Sheehan


    Not really Penny Arcade, but defo Ctrl Alt Delete. He had a rant about this on his website a few weeks ago, let me dig it up...

    Edit: From FullyRamblomatic.com...

    As a recent interview with me over at Gamespot and several references in previous reviews and writings may have informed you, I have a long-standing hatred of the webcomic Ctrl-Alt-Del. I thought I'd take a moment to explain it a bit better.

    You see, I have this theory that the internet is causing a general mediocritisation of human culture, because you can put pretty much any piece of work on the internet and no matter how hugely it sucks dolphin jizz you'll find some dick who's prepared to tell you it's brilliant. This is the principle on which Deviantart appears to be founded.

    But the cruellest thing you can do to an artist is tell them their work is flawless when it isn't. It gives them no incentive to improve or try new things, which a creative person must always strive to do. And it tends to foster the kind of monstrous egos the webcomic sphere grows like mushrooms in the ****-spattered dark. Tim Buckley of Ctrl-Alt-Del is notorious for having a zero tolerance for any criticism, constructive or otherwise, often deleting it unregarded from his forums, or declaring them invalid for half-baked reasons. It seems blanket praise has already done its damage to this fevered ego.

    I don't hate Buckley. I look at CAD and I see a lot of misdirected potential. I know, that sounds hilarious even to me. But if you look at Buckley's art blog, you'll find that he's actually a pretty decent artist when he wants to be. But the promise of easy praise and popularity keeps him mired in his copy-pasted shoulder-hunched droopy-eyed slack-jawed magnum opus.

    Not that copy-pasted art need necessarily ruin a comic - Dinosaur Comics is one of my favourite regular reads. It's the fact that for having run a gag-a-day strip for however many years, Buckley still has no idea how to structure a joke. I've never known an artist so determined to never learn anything about their craft. His usual response to this sort of thing is that he just has his own style and that there's no such thing as a 'right' or 'wrong' opinion, but the fact is, while humour is a flexible harlot, it still has rules. Rules which can be broken in the right contexts; contexts which don't include anything Tim Buckley has written.

    I'm going to post a link now to a Ctrl-Alt-Del comic from July 2007. Don't let the fact that it's old excuse the mistakes; this is still very typical of Buckley's current work.

    http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20070718

    Here's another comic, this one a Penny Arcade strip from early the same year. The subject matter and joke are the same (Puzzle Quest) but it's a fairly obvious joke to make and I can easily assume both writers came up with it independently.

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/28

    Both comics identify the humour in the situation - that the rules of a game world seem absurd when applied to the real world - but while Penny Arcade understands that the crux of a joke should be reserved for the final panel, Ctrl-Alt-Del is apparently so excited about the idea that it blurts it out right away, leaving three more panels to flounder in excessive dialogue and pointlessness.

    A punchline should be equated to an actual punch in the face. That's why it's called a punch-line. You deliver it and run. You do not hang around explaining how you did the punch and that the recipient should probably be in a lot of pain now.

    Identify the funny part of the idea and save it for last. Leave with the audience laughing. If you do nothing else, finish strong. That's a rule any humourist will agree with. But with the centrepoint of the gag already uselessly spent, Buckley's comic is forced to fall upon its old standby of violence as a sort of prosthetic punchline. Now, violence can certainly be funny, modern cinema was virtually built on the tradition of slapstick, but it doesn't work in static, non-animated media. There is humour to be found in shock value, but most people have been on the internet long enough to not be shocked by anything as mundane as a claymore through the sweetbreads.

    But even if the joke were structured properly, there is still far too much dialogue. This is a problem common to a lot of webcomics, but since we're already in the CAD-bashing groove we'll stick with it. Shakespeare wrote that 'brevity is the soul of wit'. He did not then add 'unless you're writing a webcomic'. It applies to everything, and don't tell me you're arrogant enough to claim to know better than Shakespeare.

    A gag strip has a very simple formula. Buildup. Buildup. Buildup. Punchline. Anything that does not in some way build towards the punchline can safely be removed. If any dialogue can conceivably be replaced with a gesture or facial expression (visit Perry Bible Fellowship for a crash course in this), do so; this is a comic, a predominantly visual medium, not a ****ing essay. Additionally, any dialogue pertaining to either ninjas, pirates, monkeys or Jesus should be excised, sealed in resin and buried in an undersea volcano.

    This is why Ctrl-Alt-Del is a blight, and the fact that it remains crushingly popular despite making mistakes that a child would be brutally caned for on their first day at comedy school is one of the main reasons I openly weep tears for the future of human culture.

    I know that an opinion can't technically be wrong and that there could be people who still like CAD for the characters or the art, but if you genuinely think that it is well-written, then you are demonstrably wrong. That's all there is to it.

    Yahtzee is well aware that his own previous webcomic efforts aren't necessarily any better but reminds you that they came out of a dark time in his life from which he has determinedly moved on without a backward glance


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    R0ot wrote: »
    Felt more like he was ripping on penny arcade and CAD

    Well i think the "Token girl character has miscarrage" is def a shot at CAD


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    R0ot wrote: »
    Felt more like he was ripping on penny arcade and CAD
    I don't think he was harsh about PA - only insofar as he remarked on the (very true) reality that PA's own genuine financial & critical success has led to a slew of copy-cat comics. I don't believe he was being actually critical of them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    Having never read a single web comic before in my life that one wasn't great for me.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,591 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Woah that CAD miscarriage comic is really awful. Not only is it totally out off tonally but it doesn't even have anything to say (people are said, baby miscarries: deep). Well done Yahtzee: such pseudo-intellectual nonsense deserves a good hiding.

    But I do enjoy Penny Arcade, and don't think the video criticises them really. In fact, the article above praises them quite heavily. Yeah theres a jab at their money and success, but thats about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭madrab


    CAD actually did a comic about miscarriage? wtf?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Well what made me realise he was ragging on CAD was the reference to poor art + spamming speech bubbles. I was never aware that they ACTUALLY did a comic based on miscarriage; I presumed Yahtzee was just picking a random taboo subject for shock value. That's pretty poor judgement by CAD for sure. Jesus.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,216 ✭✭✭✭monkeyfudge


    Certainly a lot of it can be leveled at Penny Arcade as well though.

    Have you ever seen photos of those guys? Certainly very far removed from their comic representations.

    I'd have a lot more respect for the authors of Shortpacked and VGcats as they represent themselves in a more accurate and even self deprecating way.


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