Any garda checkpoints out today?

Sam Vimes · 01-07-2008 09:53AM #1

As the title suggests, were there any garda check points this morning trying to catch L drivers unaccompanied?

does anyone know if the gardai are actually going to enforce this or will they just use it as an excuse to fine people that annoy them while letting normal people go?

my girlfriend has her driving test on monday and she doesn't have anyone to acompany her to the test. personally i think she'd be crazy to show up at the test having just broken the law to get there in the first week of the new rules. it's one thing driving around and hoping that the gardai will let you off but as everyone knows, testers will fail you for the tiniest of reasons and i think that committing an offence that carries a €1000 fine is all the excuse they'd need.

what do people think? will she be ok if she shows up at the test with no one accompanying her?

beerbaron · 01-07-2008 09:59AM

If she did show up with someone else to accompany her, would the tester have any right to request to see their full licence ?

The test begins and ends at the test centre, so she would be accompanied throughout the entire test by a licenced driver.

Dingatron · 01-07-2008 10:02AM

Personally I'd bring someone with me even a non driver as they wouldn't know the difference. There was a thread recently where someone was failed because there was a faint smell of smoke in the instructors car and the guy didn't even smoke.

Sam Vimes · 01-07-2008 10:03AM

beerbaron wrote: »

The test begins and ends at the test centre, so she would be accompanied throughout the entire test by a licenced driver.

but what about getting to the test centre in the first place?

Sam Vimes · 01-07-2008 10:05AM

could it be that getting to the test centre is not considered part of the test so they can't fail you for it?

Sherifu · 01-07-2008 10:06AM

I'd probably chance it if it was me.

whiskeyman · 01-07-2008 10:09AM

I'd imagine they'll be clever and be selective about this.

Expect to see a few roadblocks in the areas around Punchestown next weekend. Should be a very high proportion of prov licence drivers around there.

beerbaron · 01-07-2008 10:10AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

could it be that getting to the test centre is not considered part of the test so they can't fail you for it?

Thats essentially what I meant, we might here from some of the posters on Learning To Drive on how their tests went today.

SheroN · 01-07-2008 10:17AM

I can't see how they can fail her for not having a licensed driver in the car on the drive to the test centre. The test starts once you sit down and they start asking you questions, as long as there's not a box on the test sheet they fill out they can't mark negativly for it.

And anyways, she could always say someone was in the car with her but they walked off after she parked up.

_feedback_ · 01-07-2008 10:19AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

my girlfriend has her driving test on monday and she doesn't have anyone to acompany her to the test. personally i think she'd be crazy to show up at the test having just broken the law to get there

People have been driving unaccompanied to the test for a long time now!

Ref the bit in bold ... Just hire a driving instructor.

Sam Vimes · 01-07-2008 10:20AM

SheroN wrote: »

I can't see how they can fail her for not having a licensed driver in the car on the drive to the test centre. The test starts once you sit down and they start asking you questions, as long as there's not a box on the test sheet they fill out they can't mark negativly for it.

And anyways, she could always say someone was in the car with her but they walked off after she parked up.

yeah she can say that but testers aren't stupid. they'll probably have heard that excuse 1000 times when she sits her test next week. if they have the power to fail her for it, i can't see that working

biko · 01-07-2008 10:20AM

Tell her to park far away and walk the last 300 meters or so. They'll think she took the bus or walked or summit.
Bicycle in boot?

Sam Vimes · 01-07-2008 10:22AM

elviscostello wrote: »

People have been driving unaccompanied to the test for a long time now!

Ref the bit in bold ... Just hire a driving instructor.

yes people have been driving unaccompanied to the test for a long time now. i drove unaccompanied to my test. however, i didn't do it in the same week as new legislation was brought in saying i would be fined €1000 and possibly imprisoned for doing it.

that's the same thing people said a few years ago about drink driving

Steve · 01-07-2008 10:22AM

I don't think the tester can fail her for this - how's he to know how she got there. For all he knows, she could have got the car delivered by helicopter.

She does run the risk of getting stopped at a checkpoint and getting pulled for driving unaccompanied - this could delay her enough to miss the test altogether.

Sam Vimes · 01-07-2008 10:23AM

biko wrote: »

Tell her to park far away and walk the last 300 meters or so. They'll think she took the bus or walked or summit.
Bicycle in boot?

but she's doing the test in her own car. maybe she can say she brought her car on the bus

connundrum · 01-07-2008 10:25AM

elviscostello wrote: »

Ref the bit in bold ... Just hire a driving instructor.

Bingo! Get her to do the test in the driving instructor's car. That way the instructor will be there all the way - I find that people who use instructor's cars have a greater pass rate anyways*

No garda checkpoints today anyway, although I have seen a huge increase in the last couple of weeks. Last year I drove for 7-8 months without encountering a checkpoint, and in the last 3 weeks I've come across 4.

I have noticed a sizeable decrease in the amount of L Plates visible on cars today though, now people are breaking one more law in not driving with L Plates clearly visible.

*Poll of 7 friends taken in the last year

johnnyrotten · 01-07-2008 10:26AM

biko wrote: »

Tell her to park far away and walk the last 300 meters or so. They'll think she took the bus or walked or summit.
Bicycle in boot?

Summit?

Sam Vimes · 01-07-2008 10:27AM

connundrum wrote: »

Bingo! Get her to do the test in the driving instructor's car. That way the instructor will be there all the way - I find that people who use instructor's cars have a greater pass rate anyways*

i'd be inclined to think the exact opposite. she's been driving her own car for two years now and i don't think the driving test is the best time to be trying to get used to driving a new car.

the driving instructor idea is good though

Sam Vimes · 01-07-2008 10:27AM

johnnyrotten wrote: »

Summit?

summit=something

Steve_o · 01-07-2008 10:31AM

AFAIK, you can't be failed for anything you do when the tester is not in the car... so driving to the centre unaccompanied shouldn't get you failed.

SheroN · 01-07-2008 10:32AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

summit=something

You're making a massive deal out of nothing with this.

A tester will not fail her for this, it's none of their business how she got there. There's no box on the test sheet for "DId the candidate drive down with a fully liscensed driver?" hence they cannot fail her for it.

If she's stopped by a checkpoint on the way to her test and she shows them her letter of application, I would doubt very much any garda would have a problem with her being in the car on her own.

_feedback_ · 01-07-2008 10:34AM

SheroN wrote: »

If she's stopped by a checkpoint on the way to her test and she shows them her letter of application, I would doubt very much any garda would have a problem with her being in the car on her own.

Yeah another good point

mikemac · 01-07-2008 10:34AM

connundrum wrote: »

I have noticed a sizeable decrease in the amount of L Plates visible on cars today though, now people are breaking one more law in not driving with L Plates clearly visible.

I can understand why this happens as people don't want to attract attention to themsleves but will they be hit with an extra fine if they get caught for driving unaccompanied and with no L plates too?
OT: What's with people who put L plates outside their car, upside down or even trim off the white part?

Dingatron wrote: »

Personally I'd bring someone with me even a non driver as they wouldn't know the difference. There was a thread recently where someone was failed because there was a faint smell of smoke in the instructors car and the guy didn't even smoke.

The instructor is entitled to work (car is his workplace) in a smoke free environment. I read the thread and the tester was entitled to fail the driver. It's the driving instructor who hired out the car who should be paying for the retest and refunding the money paid for hiring the car

Sam Vimes · 01-07-2008 10:39AM

SheroN wrote: »

You're making a massive deal out of nothing with this.

A tester will not fail her for this, it's none of their business how she got there. There's no box on the test sheet for "DId the candidate drive down with a fully liscensed driver?" hence they cannot fail her for it.

If she's stopped by a checkpoint on the way to her test and she shows them her letter of application, I would doubt very much any garda would have a problem with her being in the car on her own.

there are several boxes for dangerous driving though. not everything you can be failed for is itemised, they fall into categories. if you can fail for your car smelling slightly of smoke i'd say committing a criminal offence to take your test might just do it too.

i've seen someone fail because it had been raining and she had the window open so her passenger seat was wet. that's not on the sheet either

if it was six months down the road i'd say it'd be grand but of all times you'd think they'd be cracking down on it in the first 7 days of the new legislation

Wishbone Ash · 01-07-2008 10:40AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

personally i think she'd be crazy to show up at the test having just broken the law to get there in the first week of the new rules

The regulation that commenced at midnight, only applies to those on their 2nd Provisional Licence/Learner Permit in Category B.

All other learners in Category B were always required to be accompanied as are those with any Provisional Licence/Learner Permits in the other categories with the exception of those in Categories A, A1, M and W.

Sam Vines wrote:

testers will fail you for the tiniest of reasons

To be unsuccessful in a driving test one must have incurred a very serious fault or have repeated a less serious fault several times during the 25 minute drive.

One cannot fail for the "tiniest of reasons"! It's an urban myth or 'pub talk'.

beerbaron wrote: »

If she did show up with someone else to accompany her, would the tester have any right to request to see their full licence ?

No.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

could it be that getting to the test centre is not considered part of the test so they can't fail you for it?

The test begins when the candidate is called from the waiting room. How the candidate got to the test centre is not within the remit of the examiner.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

they'll probably have heard that excuse 1000 times when she sits her test next week. if they have the power to fail her for it, i can't see that working

They don't ask - itis not within their remit to do so. If it was, the accompanied driver would have to show their licence etc.

Wishbone Ash · 01-07-2008 10:43AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

if you can fail for your car smelling slightly of smoke ....
..........i've seen someone fail because it had been raining and she had the window open so her passenger seat was wet

You are confusing a 'failure' with a test being 'abandoned'.

If you arrive with, for example, no L plates displayed, the test is abandoned. It's not a failure (althought it's back to square one for the candidate).

Sam Vimes · 01-07-2008 10:48AM

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The regulation that commenced at midnight, only applies to those on their 2nd Provisional Licence/Learner Permit in Category B.

All other learners in Category B were always required to be accompanied as are those with any Provisional Licence/Learner Permits in the other categories with the exception of those in Categories A, A1, M and W.

i wish people would stop saying that. every person in the country, including you, knows that in practise being on a first, second or seventh provisional meant nothing. the new law means cracking down on everyone. the old situation (not the law) meant cracking down on no one

and she's on her second provisional anyway

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The test begins when the candidate is called from the waiting room. How the candidate got to the test centre is not within the remit of the examiner.

They don't ask - itis not within their remit to do so. If it was, the accompanied driver would have to show their licence etc.

well they didn't ask but the law was different at 11:59 last night.

do you have some inside knowledge on this? are you 100% sure that the instructors have no entitlement to ask the student if they broke the law to get to the testing centre? if so, happy days

Sam Vimes · 01-07-2008 10:52AM

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

You are confusing a 'failure' with a test being 'abandoned'.

If you arrive with, for example, no L plates displayed, the test is abandoned. It's not a failure (althought it's back to square one for the candidate).

i'm not confusing failing with the test being abandoned. i know what the difference is. i just didn't feel the need to be so precise since the result is exactly the same for the student and everyone knows what i mean

and what if they put up L plates before the tester takes them out? if they can fail them for breaking one law on the way to the test but not actually in the test, why not another? i thought that "How the candidate got to the test centre is not within the remit of the examiner."

Steve · 01-07-2008 10:57AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

do you have some inside knowledge on this? are you 100% sure that the instructors have no entitlement to ask the student if they broke the law to get to the testing centre? if so, happy days

A tester is no more entitled to ask that than you are. Thats what Guards are for. Do you think the tester will also ask if they broke the speed limit on the way to the test, or if they parked illegally outside the shops when they stopped for a bottle of water on the way?

Sam Vimes wrote: »

and what if they put up L plates before the tester takes them out? if they can fail them for breaking one law on the way to the test but not actually in the test, why not another?

You're not getting it - they don't fail for this, they refuse to do the test because the candidate is not legally able to drive without L-plates.

Sam Vimes · 01-07-2008 10:59AM

stevec wrote: »

A tester is no more entitled to ask that than you are. Thats what Guards are for. Do you think the tester will also ask if they broke the speed limit on the way to the test, or if they parked illegally outside the shops when they stopped for a bottle of water on the way?

an average citizen is not allowed request to see your license for example. driving instructors have more entitlements than normal people

stevec wrote: »

You're not getting it - they don't fail for this, they refuse to do the test because the candidate is not legally able to drive without L-plates.

so why not just provide them with L plates? surely they have some, or allow the student to put their own up that they have in the glove compartment

Steve · 01-07-2008 11:07AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

an average citizen is not allowed request to see your license for example. driving instructors have more entitlements than normal people

:rolleyes:
AFAIK the only special dispensation they have is exemption from wearing a seatbelt - that may be gone now though.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

so why not just provide them with L plates? surely they have some, or allow the student to put their own up that they have in the glove compartment

Probably the same reason the testers don't have a stock of spare wiper blades in case they're needed.

Any garda checkpoints out today?

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