White Supremecist Flag in Portmarnock

2BFree · 09-06-2008 8:12pm #1

Has anyone seen this flag been flown near the beach? : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Confederate_Navy_Jack.svg

It is being flown on a tall flagpole in a garden right next to the beach, and can be seen in plain view for much of it.

It is the flag of the confederate states of america, the one which was pro-slavery, and is also used also by the KKK, white supremecists and righ-wing neo-nazi's.

In this poll here, most have voted that it is considered racist: http://www.able2know.org/forums/about91423.html

I was on the beach quite recently and found it very offensive when I saw it, and quite shocked that someone would fly such a flag. It may aswell be a swastika IMO.

Has anyone seen it or been offended by it?

Is there anything that could be done?

copacetic · 09-06-2008 8:15pm

it's probably a cork person flying what is well known in Ireland to be a symbol of cork, the 'rebel' county.

what you could do is cop on, 'may as well be a swastika' ffs.

Tabnabs · 09-06-2008 8:15pm

Have to say (and I'm no supremacist :rolleyes:) I don't connect the flag with these negative connotations, quite possibly in the states it means something extremely negative, but it doesn't represent the same as, say, the swastika would for example. Why not complain to the council if you feel so strongly about it?

mikemac · 09-06-2008 8:19pm

Bit OOT there OP.
It's probably owned by a Cork person and of course you do know they were playing Tipp yesterday. People all over the country put up flags during the GAA Championship

Yes, it's the Confederate flag and remember, the American Civil War did not start over slavery. The fact that you associate it with slavery and racism is unfortunate and incorrect

Stay away from Parc Ui Caoimh if this is the sort of thing that offends you.
Edit: I know it's not the county colours of Cork but watch a Cork game FFS and you'll see hundreds of them

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 09-06-2008 8:21pm

Maybe they were having an american civil war reenactment or something.
I'd swear some people go around looking for things to be offended about.

Tabnabs · 09-06-2008 8:26pm

Damn Corky people, next thing they'll be using a Japanese WW2 flag too, just no respect for their betters...

mikemac · 09-06-2008 8:28pm

Good point Dyflin, they use the Empire of Japan flag too

The OP might have a heart attack if one of them appears in Portmarnock

djfattony2000 · 09-06-2008 8:30pm

Maybe they just really like the Dukes of Hazzard

woodseb · 09-06-2008 8:30pm

i think you may have stumbled upon something, growing up in portmarnock i rarely saw a black person - maybe it was a center of white supremacy:rolleyes:

2BFree wrote: »

It may aswell be a swastika IMO.

you mean the indian peace symbol ? - symbols mean different things to different people.....

Dizzyblonde · 09-06-2008 9:32pm

I was on Portmarnock beach yesterday and didn't see it. I'd never have thought it was offensive though, to my mind it's just the flag of the Southern States?
I'm old enough to remember the Swastika Laundry here in Dublin when I was a child - they had red vans with a huge Swastika on them - they weren't offensive, it was just their name - and the Swastika wasn't racist until Hitler adopted it.
If the flag in Portmarnock is being flown in order to offend then it's wrong, but it might just be someone for whom the flag has an innocent connection?

KTRIC · 09-06-2008 9:41pm

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

and the Swastika wasn't racist until Hitler adopted it.

And the name Hitler wasn't infamous until a dictator with it as a last name became famous. He could have been called Byrne for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

Quite a good aritcal there on the Swastika.

This is from Wikipedia:

Displaying the flag

The display of the Confederate flag remains a highly controversial and emotional topic, generally because of disagreement over the nature of its symbolism. Opponents of the Confederate flag see it as an overt symbol of racism, both for the history of racial slavery in the United States, and the establishment of Jim Crow laws by Southern states following the end of Reconstruction in late 1870s, enforcing racial segregation within state borders for nearly a century until the Civil Rights Movement. Others view the flag as a symbol of rebellion against the federal government of the United States, as many past and present enemies of the United States such as the Vietcong during the Vietnam War and the Iraqi Republican Guard of Iraq during Saddam Hussein's regime sometimes used the flag[21]. Some hate groups use the Southern Cross as one of the symbols associated with their organizations, including racists, separatists, Neo-Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan,[22] while others (mostly White Southerners) see it as an historical symbol representing pride in the Southern United States or a past era of southern sovereignty.[23] Some historical societies such as the Sons of Confederate Veterans and the United Daughters of the Confederacy also use the flag as part of their symbols.

As a result of these varying perceptions, there have been a number of political controversies surrounding the use of the Confederate flag in Southern state flags, at sporting events, at Southern universities, and on public buildings. According to Civil War historian and native Southerner Shelby Foote, the flag traditionally represented the South's resistance to Northern political dominance; it became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement, when fighting against desegregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance.

Symbols of the Confederacy remain a contentious issue across the United States and have been debated vigorously in many Southern state legislatures over their civic placement since the 1990s.

Says it all really. :rolleyes:

2BFree · 09-06-2008 9:53pm

what you could do is cop on, 'may as well be a swastika' ffs.

Why the hostilities?

Cop on? - cop on to what?

It does have racist connotations and I find it quite offensive.

Have to say (and I'm no supremacist ) I don't connect the flag with these negative connotations, quite possibly in the states it means something extremely negative, but it doesn't represent the same as, say, the swastika would for example. Why not complain to the council if you feel so strongly about it?

The flag is a political flag, I will connect political connotations to it. The flag is used as a symbol of white supremacy. (why you need to roll your eyes I dont know.)

Here are pictures of the 'Celtic Wolves' (Irish neo-nazi group) in the Wicklow mountains.

http://www.celticwolves.tk/

The flag can be seen in the background, and not one for burning. They were later arrested and fined for having racist and offensive material in public despite their remote location.

The flag is offensive, is used alongside swatstika's and as a neo Nazi symbol, as with the swastika.

More images and links to back this up:

http://www.georgetown.u47.k12.me.us/grade6.01/kv/T790871A.JPG

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/22/2143734.htm?section=world

http://blog.radioleft.com/klan.jpg

http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2007/06/21/535025/FrontcoverImageJPEG.JPG

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/steven1b.jpg

http://static.toptorrents.org/images/195682/71184.jpg

The Klu Klux Klan website showing the flag: http://www.kkk.bz/

Bit OOT there OP.
It's probably owned by a Cork person and of course you do know they were playing Tipp yesterday. People all over the country put up flags during the GAA Championship

I wasnt aware that Cork fans use a politically racist flag. Unfortunate if it were the case.

Yes, it's the Confederate flag and remember, the American Civil War did not start over slavery. The fact that you associate it with slavery and racism is unfortunate and incorrect

NO, I am not incorrect.

It IS associated with slavery and racism - as seen above, EVEN in Ireland.

Clearly you lot are in the dark about the flags associations. I am not making this stuff up, but I, and a hell of alot of others would be offended by the flag and it is comparible, to the African american population, with the swastika.

What the motivations of the person is who is flying it I dont know, but if its political, then its offensive and something should be done about it.

2BFree · 09-06-2008 9:57pm

Says it all really

SO do the images of white supremacists in both Ireland and the US above. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

i71jskz5xu42pb · 09-06-2008 10:12pm

2BFree wrote: »

something should be done about it.

Why the passive voice? Get of your ass and do something about it if it offends you that much. My guess is that it does not actually bother you that much, you'll just let it slide rather than make an effort to back up your espoused convictions. I'm open to correction on this.

Looks like nobody here agrees with you so you are wasting your time moaning and trying to convince us all what a terrible injustice it is.

2BFree · 09-06-2008 10:17pm

Why the passive voice? Get of your ass and do something about it if it offends you that much. My guess is that it does not actually bother you that much, you'll just let it slide rather than make an effort to back up your espoused convictions. I'm open to correction on this.

Looks like nobody here agrees with you so you are wasting your time moaning and trying to convince us all what a terrible injustice it is.

It does bother me that much.

Maybe you should read the above line that I wrote: ""Is there anything that could be done?""

The reason, AFAICS, why people in this thread dont agree is because they are not aware of the meaning of the flag and its racist associations.

The images posted demonstrate its uses as a racist flag. Nobody appart from yourself has responded since.

You disagree that its an offensive flag with racist connotations?

copacetic · 09-06-2008 10:28pm

Everyone on here is likely aware of arguments in the states over its use. Everyone is also aware that within ireland 99% of people would understand its use as a flag for the supporters of cork 'the rebel county'

The fact that you claim not to have a clue about this despite the 'controversy' over the use of it being brought up in the past makes me wonder whether this is all just a troll.

Either way no-one could seriously believe that someone in a house in portmarnock is a white supremacist, flying a flag to prove it unless they were an idiot.

manic56 · 09-06-2008 10:31pm

I assume your not a troll...

Mate this flag has been used for years by people from cork.Get off your high horse before you get your jaw broken.

mikemac · 09-06-2008 10:38pm

Complete troll.

You claim to be an expert but you have no clue about Cork fans using this flag or the fact that Cork were playing yesterday.

Go to the next Cork game and tell the fans they are all racists. Report back here and then I'll respect you :pac:

Out of interest, what are your feeling on the Empire of Japan flag which is also regualary used at GAA games

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/10/08/japanese_flag_3_3.gif

Wishbone Ash · 09-06-2008 10:39pm

2BFree wrote: »

I wasnt aware that Cork fans use a politically racist flag.

I find that incredible! Presumably you are not into GAA but have a look the next time Cork are playing on the TV. There are usually thousands of them.

There is another one always on display on Donabate beach in a house slightly north of the Waterside Hotel. AFAIK the owner considers himself to be a bit of a 'rebel' as he has had stand offs with FCC over planning, right of way etc.

2BFree · 09-06-2008 10:42pm

Everyone on here is likely aware of arguments in the states over its use. Everyone is also aware that within ireland 99% of people would understand its use as a flag for the supporters of cork 'the rebel county'

The fact that you claim not to have a clue about this despite the 'controversy' over the use of it being brought up in the past makes me wonder whether this is all just a troll.

Either way no-one could seriously believe that someone in a house in portmarnock is a white supremacist, flying a flag to prove it unless they were an idiot.

I am not a troll, and I would dispute your claim that 99.9% of people know its used for sporting purposes in Cork.

99.9% of people are not 'into' sport, including myself. I am however, involved in politics, and I know what the flags political connotation is, and its offensive in that regard.

I could "seriously" believe it, yes. It is used for racist purposes in ireland as the images show.

I assume your not a troll...

Mate this flag has been used for years by people from cork.Get off your high horse before you get your jaw broken.

What is your bloody problem 'mate'?

I have explained why i think it is offensive, and justly so, and I was unaware that it is used for the purposes outlined in the thread.

Again, why the hostilities?

2BFree · 09-06-2008 10:45pm

There is another one always on display on Donabate beach in a house slightly north of the Waterside Hotel. AFAIK the owner considers himself to be a bit of a 'rebel' as he has had stand offs with FCC over planning, right of way etc

.

Well its probably that one then. Im not familiar with the area.

If thats his motivations for flying the flag then fair enough.

2BFree · 09-06-2008 10:48pm

You claim to be an expert but you have no clue about Cork fans using this flag or the fact that Cork were playing yesterday.

It wasnt yesterday i saw it, maybe 2 weeks ago maybe.

2BFree · 09-06-2008 10:54pm

And just to say, I think its bizzare that you all seem to think that 'everyone' knows that the flag is used for sports in Cork.

Everyone iv asked and shown the flag to (8 people), none of them knew this.

Its not me who should get off my high horse in fairness.

mikemac · 09-06-2008 10:59pm

You are here almost a year so time to learn how to quote from posts. I haven't seen you do this once.
And nobody here mentioned high horse except you.

When several posters disagree with you, it's time to review your opinion and not lash out.

And believe it or not, even if Cork fans know what happened in America in the 19th century, they don't feel guilt over it, why should they?

The French revolution killed thousands of innocent people but many Irish people would call themselves Republicans. Is the French tri-colour equally dispicable?

Hagar · 09-06-2008 10:59pm

The fact that the flag is used by Cork fans to support their county simply because it contains red and white doesn't mean it's not a racially offensive flag. It just means those who are flying it are ignorant of its significance.

Chinafoot · 09-06-2008 11:01pm

Since the link to North County Dublin is pretty tenuous I'm moving this to Humanities. I suggest you all calm down before continuing there.

copacetic · 09-06-2008 11:03pm

Hagar wrote: »

The fact that the flag is used by Cork fans to support their county simply because it contains red and white doesn't mean it's not a racially offensive flag. It just means those who are flying it are ignorant of its significance.

it's not simply because it has red and white, it is because it is a 'rebel' flag. People who are using it aren't ignorant of it's significance, it doesn't have any 'significance'.

2BFree · 09-06-2008 11:07pm

You are here almost a year so time to learn how to quote from posts. I haven't seen you do this once.

And nobody here mentioned high horse except you.

Eh:

Mate this flag has been used for years by people from cork.Get off your high horse before you get your jaw broken.

OTT or what.

When several posters disagree with you, it's time to review your opinion and not lash out

I am not lashing out. Most of the posts so-far, and from square one, have been hostile (as seen from the post above), people telling me to cop-on, rolling eyes and sarcasm.

And believe it or not, even if Cork fans know what happened in America in the 19th century, they don't feel guilt over it, why should they?

The French revolution killed thousands of innocent people but many Irish people would call themselves Republicans. Is the French tri-colour equally dispicable?

Where did I say they should feel guilt?

I said its an offensive flag, which it is to millions of people.

The fact that the flag is used by Cork fans to support their county simply because it contains red and white doesn't mean it's not a racially offensive flag. It just means those who are flying it are ignorant of its significance.

Thats a fair point. I never knew its sporting significance though.

Hagar · 09-06-2008 11:10pm

copacetic wrote: »

it's not simply because it has red and white, it is because it is a 'rebel' flag. People who are using it aren't ignorant of it's significance, it doesn't have any 'significance'.

I disagree, they use use it because its red and white.
If you don't think so explain the use of the Japanese sunrise flag.
Are they known as rebels too?

2BFree · 09-06-2008 11:10pm

it's not simply because it has red and white, it is because it is a 'rebel' flag. People who are using it aren't ignorant of it's significance, it doesn't have any 'significance'.

Of course it has significance, millions of people would find it offensive in the USA.

If it didnt have significance the KKK or white supremacists wouldnt use it.

Wishbone Ash · 09-06-2008 11:26pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

There is another one always on display on Donabate beach in a house slightly north of the Waterside Hotel. AFAIK the owner considers himself to be a bit of a 'rebel' as he has had stand offs with FCC over planning, right of way etc.

2BFree wrote: »

Well its probably that one then. Im not familiar with the area.

If thats his motivations for flying the flag then fair enough.

It's not as if Portmarnock and Donabate are beside one another!

So it's the flag in Donabate you refer to. That has been flying for years. it gets quite threadbare and is replaced regularly.

White Supremecist Flag in Portmarnock

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