Canada to check travellers for pirated music/videos at borders

Run_to_da_hills · 07-06-2008 11:37AM

BrightEyes wrote: »

If I borrow a CD off a 'friend' and copy the songs to iTunes there is nothing wrong with this. If there is something wrong with this, then I can claim that myself and my 'friend' went halves on buying the CD. Unless they ban uploading songs from a CD to your computer than it is impossible to prove the music was illegally acquired

Technically you must have the original copy of the CD and only one additional copy as back up. If you have a copy of this CD on your Ipod, more than likely your mate would also have a copy, I doubt very much that your mate would be stuck with the diskman

I have heard of one DJ that reported several flightcases of his music collection stolen, he got a reciept from the cops to say that he reported the matter. If he was ever quizzed about his MP3 collection on his laptop he could say that he once had the originals but that they were swiped.

weeder · 07-06-2008 11:58AM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In Holland an inspector can walk into a restaurant/coffee shop/club with a pen drive and check the laptop used by the DJ for illegal music in minutes. Maybe a similar method could be implimented to Ipods and MP3 players in the future. Because this whole game is so new and hit them by surprise they have yet to work out a solution and im sure they are working fast on it. They will clamp down on the commercial guys first before they clamp down on the kid with his Ipod.

I am sure my Nokia N95 is well capable of ratting to what ever authority of all my illegal MP3and videos that I have stored on it.

i have to disagree with you,with DRM on every single mp3 legally sold it might be possible but as long as you can buy drm free music such a thing is impossible, there is absolutely no way to tell if a drmless piece of media has been legally purchased or not, and because youcan legally buy drm free music or music from the millions of unsigned artists offereing free downloads all legal and drm free, not to mention the latest nine inch nails album being free and drmless, its jut not possible

JC 2K3 · 07-06-2008 12:01PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In Holland an inspector can walk into a restaurant/coffee shop/club with a pen drive and check the laptop used by the DJ for illegal music in minutes. Maybe a similar method could be implimented to Ipods and MP3 players in the future. Because this whole game is so new and hit them by surprise they have yet to work out a solution and im sure they are working fast on it. They will clamp down on the commercial guys first before they clamp down on the kid with his Ipod.

But how?? Do all music files used by DJs have to be DRM? And can you not see how easy it would be to get around that by storing music in a different format, encryption etc.?

I don't think they'll ever work out a solution for your average consumer, and whatever solution they have for DJs won't be effective.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I am sure my Nokia N95 is well capable of ratting to what ever authority of all my illegal MP3and videos that I have stored on it.

For that to be the case, there'd have to be a security exploit hardcoded into the firmware on the Nokia N95, and the Gardaí would have to know about it, which would require some sort of Nokia-Irish government conspiracy - and were that the case, you can be assured that someone would have noticed it.

And even if no one had noticed it, and the authorities found a load of people with illegal songs and videos on their wifi cabable mp3 players/phones, it wouldn't stand up as evidence in court. It'd be like Gardaí searching a house without a warrant.

egan007 · 07-06-2008 12:06PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In Holland its a e10'000 fine for playing illegal music commercially.

Commercially being the key word here

Moojuice · 07-06-2008 12:11PM

What a ridiculous law. You can claim that you own all the cds and have a masive cd collection. Who is goign to carry huge wads of reciepts around with them? They can **** off if they think that this is going to work practically or legally. "What officer? yes I do own all the cd copies at home, what? you want to search my house?, well god luck getting a warrant".

Wertz · 07-06-2008 12:19PM

I've never paid for a digital music/video file in my life. But that doesn't matter since the only thing worth going to canada for is the weed...

karen3212 · 07-06-2008 12:26PM

there is no way they're going to be able to man the whole Canadian border anyway, they probably wouldn't know exactly where all of it is!

Run_to_da_hills · 07-06-2008 12:31PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

But how?? Do all music files used by DJs have to be DRM? And can you not see how easy it would be to get around that by storing music in a different format, encryption etc.?.

It was over three years ago I was chatting to a DJ in a club in Amsterdam, being genuinly interested in the system they had. He said he was registered, Im not sure how they go about it but im sure they have some sort of encryption and a licence sticker on his laptop. Likewise there is a similar system here with all businesses. The BSA (Nothing to do with Motorbikes) have authority to check your company for illegal software. and can drop in at any given moment to check your coroporate computer. Thats why many companies are so strict with employees downloading music, programmes etc and cracking software on their equipment. http://w3.bsa.org/ireland/

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I don't think they'll ever work out a solution for your average consumer, and whatever solution they have for DJs won't be effective.

With the way digital technology advancing so will new ways of policing it will also advance.
When we eventually go for RFID based cash cards every purchace made is accounted for, the authorities could find out is seconds what you have purchased, where and when you got it. If you have an illegal copy of some new DVD video they could tell if you had purchased the orighinal or not through your records.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

For that to be the case, there'd have to be a security exploit hardcoded into the firmware on the Nokia N95, and the Gardaí would have to know about it, which would require some sort of Nokia-Irish government conspiracy - and were that the case, you can be assured that someone would have noticed it. And even if no one had noticed it, and the authorities found a load of people with illegal songs and videos on their wifi cabable mp3 players/phones, it wouldn't stand up as evidence in court. It'd be like Gardaí searching a house without a warrant.

I only mentioned that the technology is availible to scan the contents of your mobile phone, whether they can act on it is a different matter. Maybe new Euro laws could be soon enacted that your force your service provider to disclose information.

weeder · 07-06-2008 12:37PM

and if you legally purchased a drm free copy of an album there would be zero way for them to tell labels are dying anyway, more and more musicians are turning to the internet for distribution and its getting their careers further and faster, my brother would be a good example

so say hypotethically all the commercial music he has is DRM'ed what if he has a non drm album for personal use, the authoritys have no way of telling wether he played the particluar track in a club

07-06-2008 12:39PM

weeder wrote: »

and if you legally purchased a drm free copy of an album there would be zero way for them to tell labels are dying anyway, more and more musicians are turning to the internet for distribution and its getting their careers further and faster, my brother would be a good example

Who is your brother then?

Hai you guys. Don't insult Canada. They'll only go on strike again. Damn the WGA.

weeder · 07-06-2008 12:44PM

http://jimicullenmusic.com/
the bottom line being you dont need a label to make a career as a musician nowaday and without teh internets he wouldnt be nearly as popular as he is(which isnt an whole lot i grant you but hes toured the uk and america

trout · 07-06-2008 01:01PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The BSA (Nothing to do with Motorbikes) have authority to check your company for illegal software. and can drop in at any given moment to check your coroporate computer.

I don't think that's quite true. The BSA are a world wide advisory group, not a regulatory body, and can only instigate legal action on behalf of their members if they have prior proof of piracy. In my experience, this has to come from whistleblowers, awareness from vendors, or organisations discovering their own unwitting piracy, through the use of a self-assesment form (this current form 2006 for some reason ??) linkeh -> http://w3.bsa.org/ireland//antipiracy/Software-Asset-Review.cfm

The BSA mission is awareness and education, not policing.

linkeh -> http://w3.bsa.org/ireland/about/

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

With the way digital technology advancing so will new ways of policing it will also advance.

As will technology that will just bypass DRM. For every DRM equipped media format, you'll have an equivalent format such as Ogg Vorbis.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

When we eventually go for RFID based cash cards every purchace made is accounted for, the authorities could find out is seconds what you have purchased, where and when you got it. If you have an illegal copy of some new DVD video they could tell if you had purchased the orighinal or not through your records.

Wow. That would be impressive. If the DRM Alliance can bring the music hardware vendors, sales & distribution channels, law enforcement and finance systems together in one cohesive world-wide, real-time solution, that might just work.

DonJose · 07-06-2008 01:02PM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Pavee point will be up in arms about this.

LOL good one!!!

Moojuice · 07-06-2008 01:20PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

When we eventually go for RFID based cash cards every purchace made is accounted for, the authorities could find out is seconds what you have purchased, where and when you got it. If you have an illegal copy of some new DVD video they could tell if you had purchased the orighinal or not through your records.

Bollix. You can still buy things with cash and they have no way of tracing or verifying this. There will always be a way to buy stuff without using any form of electronic payment.

trout · 07-06-2008 01:22PM

Moojuice wrote: »

Bollix. You can still buy things with cash and they have no way of tracing or verifying this. There will always be a way to buy stuff without using any form of electronic payment.

Not to mention swaps, gifts, prizes, freebies ... think of the CD's you get free on the Sunday papers from time to time.

ressem · 07-06-2008 01:25PM

Not just Canada though.
It's to do with the ACTA proposal (discussion paper available on wikileaks), being discussed by the US and EU also.
http://file.sunshinepress.org:54445/acta-proposal-2007.pdf

which includes gems like...
criminal sanctions in addition to the civil sanctions for

> significant willful infringements without motivation for financial gain to such an extent as to prejudicially affect the copyright owner (e.g. Internet piracy)

and the stuff you've been laughing at

Border measures:
- procedures for rights holders to initiate suspension by customs authorities of import, export and trans-shipment of suspected IPR goods;

Internet distribution and information technology:
...
- procedures enabling right holders who have given effective notification of a claimed infringement to expediciously obtain information identifying the alleged infringer;
- Remedies against circumvention of technological protection measures used by copyright owners and the trafficking of circumvention devices.

Which I'm sure has nothing to do with Article 97 of the consolidated Lisbon treaty.

In the context of the establishment and functioning of the internal market, the European Parliament and the Council, acting in accordance with the ordinary legislative procedure, shall establish measures for the creation of European intellectual property rights to provide uniform protection of intellectual property rights throughout the Union and for the setting up of centralised Union-wide authorisation, coordination and supervision arrangements.

Mossy Monk · 07-06-2008 01:38PM

No to Lisbon

Run_to_da_hills · 07-06-2008 01:41PM

Mossy Monk wrote: »

No to Lisbon

+1
Lisbon = another advancement towards totalitarian control

trout wrote: »

The BSA mission is awareness and education, not policing..

I don't think so, they have an online reporting tool that you can fill out if you suspect a company is using illegal software, They will follow it up. I know of an Internet shop in Co Clare that had a visit about 4 years ago from the BSA, bootleg copyies of Windows along with other software was discovered. The place had to change management. I also know of a PC shop in South Dublin that got a hefty fine over installing illegal copies of windows on new machines. http://w3.bsa.org/ireland/antipiracy/ these guys do follow up complaints.

trout wrote: »

As will technology that will just bypass DRM. For every DRM equipped media format, you'll have an equivalent format such as Ogg Vorbis.

There are heaps of different formats out there, some have their advantages, I would personally stick to the one with the highest bit rate quality. Pioneer have come out with an MP3 compatible CD deck, i.e. CDJ1000 MK3. I have the old MK2 decks that will only play CDs i.e. WAV format. I have no intention of changing as I find the audio quality of WAV far superior than that of MP3. The more you convert audio formats the more you loose quality during the compression process.

trout wrote: »

Wow. That would be impressive. If the DRM Alliance can bring the music hardware vendors, sales & distribution channels, law enforcement and finance systems together in one cohesive world-wide, real-time solution, that might just work.

Yes, everything around the world is becomming intigrated in this digital world at the cost of civil liberties. Just like your new Global compatible RFID based passport that was issued after september 2006.

trout · 07-06-2008 02:00PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I don't think so, they have an online reporting tool that you can fill out if you suspect a company is using illegal software, They will follow it up. I know of an Internet shop in Co Clare that had a visit about 4 years ago from the BSA, bootleg copyies of Windows along with other software was discovered. The place had to change management. I also know of a PC shop in South Dublin that got a hefty fine over installing illegal copies of windows on new machines. http://w3.bsa.org/ireland/antipiracy/ these guys do follow up complaints.

Follow up after the fact is reported, and proven, but they cannot conduct a raid on their own initiative. The few raids that are conducted are carried out by law enforcement agencies, accompanied by BSA reps who have provided proof of piracy.

I used to work with the chairman of the BSA in Ireland. He has told me raids are very much the action of last resort, given the complexity and effort required, as well as the Garda co-operation.

The BSA promote compliance and self-regulation, through awareness not policing.

"BSA educates consumers on software management and copyright protection, cyber security, trade, e-commerce and other Internet-related issues."

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There are heaps of different formats out there, some have their advantages, I would personally stick to the one with the highest bit rate quality. Pioneer have come out with an MP3 compatible CD deck, i.e. CDJ1000 MK3. I have the old MK2 decks that will only play CDs i.e. WAV format. I have no intention of changing as I find the audio quality of WAV far superior than that of MP3. The more you convert audio formats the more you loose quality during the compression process.

Loss/lossless encoding is a different discussion to DRM/royalty & license free. Converting from one lossy format to another is always going to degrade your end data. FLAC ftw!

For an alternate take on technology and civil liberties ... have a look at EFF -> http://www.eff.org/

JC 2K3 · 07-06-2008 02:11PM

trout wrote: »

FLAC ftw!

Nah, V0(VBR) MP3 is the way to go. FLAC is only suitable for archiving really - unless you're some sort of audio God capable of detecting the tiniest of differences in sound quality (if they are even present).

Run_to_da_hills · 07-06-2008 02:18PM

trout wrote: »

Follow up after the fact is reported, and proven, but they cannot conduct a raid on their own initiative. The few raids that are conducted are carried out by law enforcement agencies, accompanied by BSA reps who have provided proof of piracy. I used to work with the chairman of the BSA in Ireland. He has told me raids are very much the action of last resort, given the complexity and effort required, as well as the Garda co-operation. .

I know that, its like when there is a serious raid on a Counterfeit DVD operation, Members of an Garda will arrive along with representatives of INFACT and maybe a number of customs and excice officers. THe BSA will provide the groundwork and the basis for a raid and any evidence that could be used against them in a follow up court case.

trout wrote: »

Loss/lossless encoding is a different discussion to DRM/royalty & license free. Converting from one lossy format to another is always going to degrade your end data. FLAC ftw!.

Thats why I don't mind paying for quality. I would rather 20 gigs of quality music rather than 300 gigs of low quality rubbish, same goes for DVDs.

JC 2K3 · 07-06-2008 02:23PM

Ironically, paying for music online legally generally only gets you lossy, low-mid quality MP3s or AACs, whereas downloading illegally you can get most things in FLAC (lossless) or V0(lossy, but almost indistinguishable from FLAC).

trout · 07-06-2008 02:31PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Nah, V0(VBR) MP3 is the way to go. FLAC is only suitable for archiving really - unless you're some sort of audio God capable of detecting the tiniest of differences in sound quality (if they are even present).

Umm ... could you repeat that ? I can't hear you

Run_to_da_hills · 07-06-2008 02:32PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Ironically, paying for music online legally generally only gets you lossy, low-mid quality MP3s or AACs, whereas downloading illegally you can get most things in FLAC (lossless) or V0(lossy, but almost indistinguishable from FLAC).

I would still prefere to buy a hard copy of the latest NOW 68 CD rather than download it legally, most DJs would do the same.

JC 2K3 · 07-06-2008 02:39PM

Now 68? I'm appalled.

Though if you are going to buy legally, a hard copy is the way to go.

DJ_Spider · 07-06-2008 02:47PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You are allowed use copied MP3s only provided you have the original. Ireland is still years behind in policing MP3's used by DJs, Most inspectors are still looking for bootleg cds in night clubs. but it wont be long before laptops used by DJs will have to be registered. In Holland its a e10'000 fine for playing illegal music commercially.

The situation in the UK is this: http://www.pcdj.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=13 Good job Ireland is behind, I have over 25000 mp3's on my shiny thing, collected from the last 20 odd years. I think some of the songs were only released on vinyl single. Now where did I put my gramaphone?!

Run_to_da_hills · 07-06-2008 02:50PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Now 68? I'm appalled..

Agreed but that is what would be wanted at the average 21'st party, personally not my choice of music.

galwayrush · 07-06-2008 05:43PM

Bollocks, i'm off to Canada in July, how will i survive the flight without my i-pod:eek:

eoin2nc · 07-06-2008 05:45PM

Downloading music illegally make baby Jesus cry

Run_to_da_hills · 07-06-2008 06:27PM

galwayrush wrote: »

Bollocks, i'm off to Canada in July, how will i survive the flight without my i-pod:eek:

Just being a flightcase with all the origional CD copies that you have transferred over to your Ipod and you would have nothing to worry about

.

DJ_Spider wrote: »

The situation in the UK is this: http://www.pcdj.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=13 Good job Ireland is behind, I have over 25000 mp3's on my shiny thing, collected from the last 20 odd years. I think some of the songs were only released on vinyl single. Now where did I put my gramaphone?!

I would be very slow at mouthing about any MP3 collection, God knows who could be earwigging on this site. :eek:

Canada to check travellers for pirated music/videos at borders

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