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Fifa rules in favour of N.I

2

Comments

  • #32
    estebancambias
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭estebancambias


    Yes they are. Both Darron Gibson and Marc Wilson play for the Republic despite being born in NI.


  • #33
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Stekelly wrote: »
    Gibson has never lived in the country he wants to play for.

    First time Owen Hargreaves came to England was for an England training session.

    There has to be some fairly rigid rules put in place, to simply say someone qualifies for a passport is no certainty (Jesus, FF dish out Irish passports to all and sundry, Berite would have dishd them out to Kaka, Ronaldinho and anyone else he could persuade to play for Ireland) and to say that it is a nation created by colonialism, well, that may put the whole of south America (and North for that matter, although not as important football wise), Africa and large chunks of the far east into question.

    as much as this pains me to say, Blatter may be right (ouch).


  • #34
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    estebancambias wrote: »
    Yes they are. Both Darron Gibson and Marc Wilson play for the Republic despite being born in NI.

    Lets start this from scratch.

    The IFA and FAI had a gentlemans agreement not to 'poach' across the border. Under Kerrs youth system we 'broke' the rules and the IFA made it clear if anyone played for the senior side that they would appeal it. Which they did.

    What bit of this confuses you?


  • #35
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    First time Owen Hargreaves came to England was for an England training session.

    There has to be some fairly rigid rules put in place, to simply say someone qualifies for a passport is no certainty (Jesus, FF dish out Irish passports to all and sundry, Berite would have dishd them out to Kaka, Ronaldinho and anyone else he could persuade to play for Ireland) and to say that it is a nation created by colonialism, well, that may put the whole of south America (and North for that matter, although not as important football wise), Africa and large chunks of the far east into question.

    as much as this pains me to say, Blatter may be right (ouch).

    Which is exactly what Quatar did hence the rule change.


  • #36
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    First time Owen Hargreaves came to England was for an England training session..

    Yes but he qualified by others means (family) Gibson doesnt which is the whole point. You either need the proper family connections or to have lived in the country for a certain time period (cudicini, almunia)


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  • #37
    estebancambias
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭estebancambias


    I'm sorry but can you not see how completely stupid that is?


    Almunia can play for the English national team because he has lived in the country for a certain amount of time. Now he has no affiliation with the county other than that Arsenal happened to sign him 5 seasons ago.

    Gibson on the other hand obviously feels and is Irish, yet because of boundaries drawn up by some civil servant he is unable to play for the Irsih team.


  • #38
    Thanx 4 The Fish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,399 ✭✭✭✭Thanx 4 The Fish


    How old is his family ? Could he qualify under the granny rule ?


  • #39
    estebancambias
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭estebancambias


    T4TF: Gibson will be able to play anyway cause' he has one cap. But neither of his parents or grandparents were born in any other of the 26 counties.


  • #40
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,327 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    FIFA & UEFA are a mess anyway as the UK has 4 entries into all their competitions and yet none of them are (independent) countries!

    Their whole ethos is a football association rather than nationality, residency or citizenship. Inadvertently or not, they have decided to take a stance on the Irish national question.


  • #41
    Thanx 4 The Fish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,399 ✭✭✭✭Thanx 4 The Fish


    estebancambias wrote: »
    T4TF: Gibson will be able to play anyway cause' he has one cap. But neither of his parents or grandparents were born in any other of the 26 counties.
    ah yes, but what I am getting at is that if his grandparents were old enough then they could have been around in a united Ireland :)

    Granted they would have to have been pretty old.


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  • #42
    Bubs101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Bubs101


    estebancambias wrote: »
    T4TF: Gibson will be able to play anyway cause' he has one cap. But neither of his parents or grandparents were born in any other of the 26 counties.

    In complete fairness then he should be playing for Norn Iron. It's utterly unfair on them if we can rob any one of their players because of a political issue which has nothing to do with football. You people saying that the only reason Gibson is in this mess is because some Civil servant drew a boundary are wrong, it's because to appease nationalists the British government let them have Irish passports. Northern Ireland has been seperate now for a good 80 years. We can't just claim there people as our own


  • #43
    estebancambias
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭estebancambias


    He doesn't want to play for them. Its not like we poached him. He has always supported the Republic of Ireland team. If this was the case we would have poached some of their players who could increase our national pool like Healy, Davis and Hughes. But no they play for Northern Ireland.


    The reason Alex Bruce plays for us is because one of his grandparents is from Bangor in Northern Ireland.


  • #44
    Pigman II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,921 ✭✭✭✭Pigman II


    estebancambias wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Keane, McGrath or Brady could not have played for Northern Ireland, because being born in the Republic they wouldn't have British passport.

    As has been pointed out McGrath was born in England. Little known fact but Liam Brady was eligible to play for England.

    As for TheTraitor, well I doubt he'd ever play for any country where he didn't have the racial-highground and/or ability to spout comments such as "you're not even [nationality I represent], you [nationality I don't represent] c***."


  • #45
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Pigman II wrote: »
    As has been pointed out McGrath was born in London. Little known fact but Liam Brady was eligible to play for England.

    As for TheTraitor, well I doubt he'd ever play for any country where he didn't have the racial-highground and/or ability to spout comments such as "you're not even [nationality I represent], you [nationality I don't represent] c***."



    Who is the traitor?


  • #46
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Who is the traitor?

    Pigman II


  • #47
    Syke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 227 ✭✭Syke


    The irony of all this is that catholic players don't want to play for the North because of the sectarianism and abuse they get when they do. Catholic fans are singled out in supporters clubs and we've seen what happened to Neil Lennon.

    Given the behavior of the supporters, the supporters associations and the shameful blind eye that the IFA have turned to all this, many Northern Irish catholics (at least the ones I know) have no connection or empathy for the Northern Irish team.

    The IFA compound this travesty by ignoring the root of their problem and giving the players a like it or lump it option to international football.

    As long as things remain the way they are now, I'm behind the FAI on this all the way.


  • #48
    Bubs101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Bubs101


    estebancambias wrote: »
    He doesn't want to play for them. Its not like we poached him. He has always supported the Republic of Ireland team. If this was the case we would have poached some of their players who could increase our national pool like Healy, Davis and Hughes. But no they play for Northern Ireland.


    The reason Alex Bruce plays for us is because one of his grandparents is from Bangor in Northern Ireland.

    The reason Alex Bruce plays for us is that he is far too crap for England. Same with Healy, too bad for Ireland. Hughes and Davis would have gotten around 5 caps each


  • #49
    estebancambias
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭estebancambias


    First of all Bubs, I agree. None of them are good enough for the Irish team.


    But what I mean about Bruce is, as far as I'm aware none of his grandparents come from south of Ireland.

    He is able to play for Ireland for the same reason Gibson is, only in a more indirect way.


  • #50
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    estebancambias wrote: »
    First of all Bubs, I agree. None of them are good enough for the Irish team.


    But what I mean about Bruce is, as far as I'm aware none of his grandparents come from south of Ireland.

    He is able to play for Ireland for the same reason Gibson is, only in a more indirect way.

    I think Sean Scannell's dad is from County Armagh too.


  • #51
    Cionád
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,003 ✭✭✭Cionád


    Simple solution, merge them into one Ireland football team. :)


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  • #52
    grahamo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭grahamo


    As far as I know people born in the North of Ireland up to the 1940's (I think) were automatically entitled to an Irish passport if they wanted one. Wouldn't this give players like Gibson, Bruce, Healy etc. the "family connection" they need to qualify for the Republic?


  • #53
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    grahamo wrote: »
    As far as I know people born in the North of Ireland up to the 1940's (I think) were automatically entitled to an Irish passport if they wanted one. Wouldn't this give players like Gibson, Bruce, Healy etc. the "family connection" they need to qualify for the Republic?

    47 when Ireland became a Republic. My understanding is in Gibsons case there are no relatives born on the island prior to that date.

    The FAI are between a rock and a hard place. They can only strike a deal if the IFA agree to one, which they won't. So now it will be up to individual players to appeal the IFA appealing in future.


  • #54
    estebancambias
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭estebancambias


    grahamo wrote: »
    As far as I know people born in the North of Ireland up to the 1940's (I think) were automatically entitled to an Irish passport if they wanted one. Wouldn't this give players like Gibson, Bruce, Healy etc. the "family connection" they need to qualify for the Republic?

    But Gibson actually has a passport. He is entitled to an Irish passport because of the Good Friday Agreement.


  • #55
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    estebancambias wrote: »
    But Gibson actually has a passport. He is entitled to an Irish passport because of the Good Friday Agreement.

    For the purposes of this discussion, so what?


  • #56
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    For the purposes of this discussion, so what?

    it's sounds like the argument that a passport prior to 1947 will suffice, but a passport from the good friday wont? if that's true; what's the difference?


  • #57
    DerekD Goldfish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭DerekD Goldfish


    I agree with Fifa
    the rules are in place for a reason
    they cant go making exceptions to the rule as they would be inundated with cases from other country's who wanted to be exempt from the rules also.
    Just because gibson feels irish doesn't mean he should automatically be able to play for us. While he will continue to do so I understand the IFA wanting to put a stop to us poaching players they have a small enogh population base to chose from as it is without some of thier brightest prospects being "stolen"
    As for Gibson and others not wanted to represent the north well thats their problem if they dont want to represent the country they were born in, grew up in and all their family were from its not Fifa or the IFA fault.


  • #58
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    leninbenjamin wrote: »
    it's sounds like the argument that a passport prior to 1947 will suffice, but a passport from the good friday wont? if that's true; what's the difference?

    No, he has a passport, thats not in dispute. The issue is the additional criteria he needs.

    - Lived in the 26 counties for 5 years.
    - Have a parent or grandparent who was born in the 26 counties
    - Have a spouse who is born in the 26 counties.

    Anyone born in the north prior to 47 is classed as being born in the 26 counties for some legal reasons I'm not sure of. DG does not have that either.


  • #59
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,327 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    DerekD Goldfish wrote: »
    I agree with Fifa
    the rules are in place for a reason
    they cant go making exceptions to the rule as they would be inundated with cases from other country's who wanted to be exempt from the rules also.
    Just because gibson feels irish doesn't mean he should automatically be able to play for us. While he will continue to do so I understand the IFA wanting to put a stop to us poaching players they have a small enogh population base to chose from as it is without some of thier brightest prospects being "stolen"
    As for Gibson and others not wanted to represent the north well thats their problem if they dont want to represent the country they were born in, grew up in and all their family were from its not Fifa or the IFA fault.

    Feels Irish? He is Irish!! You are talking about the RoI team representing the Irish Nation which it does not. The RoI team represents the football association in the RoI not the Irish Nation.


  • #60
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    DerekD Goldfish wrote: »
    I agree with Fifa. the rules are in place for a reason
    they cant go making exceptions to the rule as they would be inundated with cases from other country's who wanted to be exempt from the rules also.

    I don't. If they are inundated, then let them deal with each case submitted. I'm sure they'd have the resources. Exceptions 'have' to be made, not should be made.
    Just because gibson feels irish doesn't mean he should automatically be able to play for us. While he will continue to do so I understand the IFA wanting to put a stop to us poaching players they have a small enogh population base to chose from as it is without some of thier brightest prospects being "stolen"

    What if a close personal friend or family member was killed on bloody sunday, yet they have to stand to 'god save the queen', before every international match. Balderdash. Ireland is an exceptional scenario. Neil Lennon had to retire from international football because of the horrid sectarian attitude of alot of NI fans. The good friday agreements means that one can be a citizen of the republic, FIFA has no right to infringe on that right! Even if it opens up a can of worms elsewhere, they just have to deal with it.

    Believe it or not, I'm not even nationalistic, I just find that infringing on a right that people have fought hard (politically) for is wrong. Ireland has the history etc. Quatar were obviously just trying to get some Brazillians playing football for them.
    As for Gibson and others not wanted to represent the north well thats their problem if they dont want to represent the country they were born in, grew up in and all their family were from its not Fifa or the IFA fault.

    And if they decide to join Celtic will be threatened with death, will be berated by their own fans, and made feel like a stranger in his own country. Whether you like it or not, people from the north of Ireland are entitled to citizenship of the republic. It is wholly FIFA and the IFA's fault if they don't recognise this right.


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  • #61
    DerekD Goldfish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭DerekD Goldfish


    Feels Irish? He is Irish!! You are talking about the RoI team representing the Irish Nation which it does not. The RoI team represents the football association in the RoI not the Irish Nation

    There is no such thing as "The Irish Nation" we are not one unified entity and until such time as we are each association will represent the seperare area over which it presides.
    Unless players meet the eligibilty criteria set down by Fifa they shoudnt be allowed represent the country.
    There is and IMO shouldnt be an acception to this


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