ireland dying pub culture

gollyitsolly · 29-05-2008 12:57PM

People are smoking and drinking more. Yep. Off licences and supermarkets have overtaking the pub sales and a report in the paper last week said the smoking ban has not changed peoples habits. Cigarette sales are up.

AARRRGH · 29-05-2008 01:50PM

Couple of reasons why I don't really drink in the pub anymore:

It's too expensive. I used to be able to have a night out on £20, now it'll be at least €50 before midnight.
Most pubs are crap these days. I'd be hard pressed to name five pubs which "deserve" my money.
Drinking cans is more fun.
I think we're more health conscious these days, so the idea of sitting in pubs all the time is a bit off putting. Certainly I'm more health conscious. This kind of thing scares the **** out of me.
Pubs are great when you have nothing to do, but we're all much busier these days so the idea of spending hours sitting in a pub isn't really an option anymore. I feel guilty thinking I could be doing x, y & z instead of sitting in the pub. When I'm at home/in my friends place with cans I'm able to multi-task.
I know this is kind of the same as 1, but I'm more cautious with money these days.

stovelid · 29-05-2008 02:08PM

dublindude wrote: »

[*]I think we're more health conscious these days, so the idea of sitting in pubs all the time is a bit off putting. Certainly I'm more health conscious.

[*]Pubs are great when you have nothing to do, but we're all much busier these days so the idea of spending hours sitting in a pub isn't really an option anymore. I feel guilty thinking I could be doing x, y & z instead of sitting in the pub.
[/LIST]

Is the beer in cans healthier than in the pub taps?

Also: any multitasking I do when I'm drinking at home tends to need redoing in the morning.

AARRRGH · 29-05-2008 02:12PM

stovelid wrote: »

Is the beer in cans healthier than in the pub taps?

Well I don't get hangovers from cans, so there must be something going on...

stovelid wrote: »

Also: any multitasking I do when I'm drinking at home tends to need redoing in the morning.

True!

Doesn't stop me trying though.

x in the city · 29-05-2008 02:13PM

simple reason is

'Romantic Ireland's dead and buried, its with O'Leary in the grave...'

mise_me_fein · 29-05-2008 02:25PM

MOH wrote: »

Lack of 'cafe-bars'. There's loads of European countries you can go to and have a good night in a cafe bar, people who want to drink can, people who don't can drink tea, coffee, or soft drinks without getting ripped off, can generally get decent food. Often as busy and good craic as 'pubs' but just a less intense 'must-drink-alcohol-only' atmosphere. Of course, the government here decided we can't be trusted with such things as we'd all run riot. Despite the fact I've seen large groups of Irish drinking in cafe-bars abroad who didn't instantly turn into slavering alcoholic monsters laying waste to the area around them.

Café bars are cr*p. The atmosphere is dull. Why do you think Irish pubs are so common abroad????

You used to people able to have a cup of tea and a slice or brown bread wit butter here. Things have changed. Eveything is expensive in Ireland but the wages are higher than most other places also.

So what if you´ve seen Irish people drinking in café bars??? That´s what most of the places you drink on the continent are! Not all Irish people want to go to Irish pubs when they go on holiday.

If you think opening up these cafes would make Irish people drink less, you´re wrong. Drink is more expensive and more highly taxed here than in most countries, and yet we still drink more than most.

Blisterman · 29-05-2008 02:49PM

As I posted in the last thread, only about 10% of alcohol sold in Ireland, is drunk at home, one of the lowest percentages in Europe.

So, everyone saying that nobody goes to the pub anymore, they just sit and drink at home, is completely innacurate.

Irish people have more money than ever before. It's not like nowadays they can't afford beer like they used to.

The real threat to rural pubs especially, is the crackdown on drink driving.
In cities, there are just more alternatives to sitting in a traditional pub. It's a bit boring to go to the same place every night. People want more variety. That been said, there's not too many pubs going out of business in cities, at the moment.

^whitey^ · 29-05-2008 03:08PM

i_love_toast wrote: »

i know everyone will say publicans..and the 6 cans of bavaria for 7euro but the governemt are even trying to put the price of them up to every other expensive beer so for example students are gonna suffer.

It's 7.50 now the bastards ... back to tuborg I go.

Dashticle · 29-05-2008 03:32PM

x in the city wrote: »

simple reason is

'Romantic Ireland's dead and buried, its with O'Leary in the grave...'

Romantic Ireland's dead and gone

Yeah pubs are pretty much too expensive and I tend to have better craic drinking cans with my mates, cheaper, and no chance of having to associate with any dickheads like at the local

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 29-05-2008 03:41PM

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Café bars are cr*p. The atmosphere is dull. Why do you think Irish pubs are so common abroad????

You used to people able to have a cup of tea and a slice or brown bread wit butter here. Things have changed. Eveything is expensive in Ireland but the wages are higher than most other places also.

So what if you´ve seen Irish people drinking in café bars??? That´s what most of the places you drink on the continent are! Not all Irish people want to go to Irish pubs when they go on holiday.

If you think opening up these cafes would make Irish people drink less, you´re wrong. Drink is more expensive and more highly taxed here than in most countries, and yet we still drink more than most.

That's more xenophobia than anything else: if I go aborad I want to experience some culture. If I want to get pissed in an Irish pub, I'll do it here.

I've had some fantastic nights out in Scanavia in cafe bars, Pool bars and barbeques and cans in the park. Vfery little of that in Dublin, though.

Blisterman wrote:

Irish people have more money than ever before. It's not like nowadays they can't afford beer like they used to.

I think it's more disposable income than matters, rather than money. A lot of people with money get married younger and take out mortgages, which leaves tham with less 'real' income than before.

mise_me_fein · 29-05-2008 04:53PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

That's more xenophobia than anything else: if I go aborad I want to experience some culture. If I want to get pissed in an Irish pub, I'll do it here.

I've had some fantastic nights out in Scanavia in cafe bars, Pool bars and barbeques and cans in the park. Vfery little of that in Dublin, though.
QUOTE]

Good for you. I´ve been to plenty of european citie and am currently living in a large one with plenty of cafe bars....and they´re usually lacking in atmosphere compared to a cosy pub.

So you go to Scandinavia for culture????? Try India or Peru mate

BraziliaNZ · 30-05-2008 02:02AM

Whoever's quoting Yeats, seriously when was Ireland ever romantic??!? I think I used to buy 4 tuborg for 5 euro, or there used to be always euro bottles of Warsteiner or something. Anyway my local a couple of years ago was Walshes of Stonybatter, best pint of Guinnes in the world, and I think it cost 3.85 or so, which was very reasonable, considering it was the best in the world of course. The price isn't that bad compared to wages, I think we're all just looking to whinge and moan as usual. And come on, I've never seen any city where the bars/pubs are so full at weekends as Dublin, and during the week, you should see New Zealand towns/cities on weeknights, dead as disco, actually disco is more alive I'd say than weeknights in NZ.

Blisterman · 30-05-2008 09:40AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I think it's more disposable income than matters, rather than money. A lot of people with money get married younger and take out mortgages, which leaves tham with less 'real' income than before.

Well, I did read an artical comparing how Irish people spent money 50 years ago, and now.

And while wages have risen a hige amount, the percentage spent in pubs has remained the same, about 5%.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 30-05-2008 09:54AM

mise_me_fein wrote: »

That's more xenophobia than anything else: if I go aborad I want to experience some culture. If I want to get pissed in an Irish pub, I'll do it here.

I've had some fantastic nights out in Scanavia in cafe bars, Pool bars and barbeques and cans in the park. Vfery little of that in Dublin, though.
QUOTE]

Good for you. I´ve been to plenty of european citie and am currently living in a large one with plenty of cafe bars....and they´re usually lacking in atmosphere compared to a cosy pub.

So you go to Scandinavia for culture????? Try India or Peru mate

I'd go anywhere BUT to a pub for "culture". Been to India, agreed.

Scandanaiva's a far more varied and interesting place than Ireland. Everything from people, to scenry, to ngihtly activities...

(Why's it called pub culture anyway - there's fvck all cultural about it!)

mise_me_fein · 30-05-2008 12:13PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I'd go anywhere BUT to a pub for "culture". Been to India, agreed.

Scandanaiva's a far more varied and interesting place than Ireland. Everything from people, to scenry, to ngihtly activities...

(Why's it called pub culture anyway - there's fvck all cultural about it!)

I´ve been to Scandinavia myself, and to be honest, they pretty much drink the same as us. The difference is that we have the craic.

I don´t agree with you on it being more interesting than Ireland. I mean, Copenhagen on New Years Day was dead this year.....you wouldn´t have that in Dublin.

Forget about Dublin if you looking for scenry...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 30-05-2008 12:16PM

mise_me_fein wrote: »

I´ve been to Scandinavia myself, and to be honest, they pretty much drink the same as us. The difference is that we have the craic.

I don´t agree with you on it being more interesting than Ireland. I mean, Copenhagen on New Years Day was dead this year.....you wouldn´t have that in Dublin.

Forget about Dublin if you looking for scenry...

That's because the interestign people are off doing soemthing else somewhere else. Mind you, Denmark away from Copenhagen was more open and lively. Wheer in Ireland do you get a city-based fairground with nightly firework shows?

MOH · 30-05-2008 01:36PM

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Café bars are cr*p. The atmosphere is dull.

I've been in cafe bars with brilliant atmosphere, and pubs with none.

Why do you think Irish pubs are so common abroad????

Because they're a novelty. They'll get business in out of curiosity, plus Irish and British tourists. Anyway, a large majority of "Irish" pubs abroad aren't e.g. There's a least 12 in Amsterdam, of which maybe 4 could be properly classed Irish pubs. They just push the Irish angle as a gimmick

So what if you´ve seen Irish people drinking in café bars???

Huh? My point about Irish people drinking in cafe bars abroad is that the government seemed to feel if they introduced them here it would lead to mass social breakdown, yet if Irish people can deal with the concept when abroad, why not here?

That´s what most of the places you drink on the continent are! Not all Irish people want to go to Irish pubs when they go on holiday.

Exactly. I generally avoid Irish pubs abroad, unless I want to see a match or something. Lots of people do, you want to try something different. So why wouldn't a few decent cafe bars here get the same kind of attention that Irish pubs abroad do?

If you think opening up these cafes would make Irish people drink less, you´re wrong. Drink is more expensive and more highly taxed here than in most countries, and yet we still drink more than most.

They probably wouldn't make Irish people drink any less. They'd be unlikely to make me drink any less. But they'd attract people who wouldn't be mad about pubs. Who don't drink 7 or 8 pints every time they go out, or just want a quiet night and maybe be able to get a coffee after 10pm at night without a barman glaring at you like you've two heads. I'm not saying everyone should abandon pubs and move to cafe bars, I'd probably still prefer a pub most of the time - I'm saying it would provide an alternative for people who want it.

mise_me_fein · 30-05-2008 02:10PM

Those places alreday exist where you can get food in a pub during the day.

Things are fine the way they are.

We drink more or less the same as always. Some people just listen to the Last Word too much probably.

RealEstateKing · 30-05-2008 02:47PM

We drink more or less the same as always.

Not true, we drink far more, cause we've got cash to do it with now.

Remember in the ye olden days, it's have been the blokes that were doing most of the drinking.

Cafe bars probably woudlnt change things that quickly: You dont turn a nation of drink-obsessed savages into proper human beings overnight. It takes time, and possibly the odd use of the taser.

mattman · 03-06-2008 10:33PM

DUBLIN PUBS charge a fortune..which annoys me..

I'm from Carlow..pints in my local are 3.70 (guinn) and 4 (heineken)..

Do you know the government is gettin over a euro per pint! publician gets after costs(which are crazy)..about 70 cent per pint after taxes etc.

so shut up..

I had 9 customers in on monday(yesterday)... NINE...
That wont come CLOSE to covering my costs..let alone any wages for me..

And yes I have rural pub.

m.

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

why do people think irish are the only ones for whom socialising revolves around drinking? It's the same in New Zealand, Canada, Australia, and USA from my experiences. Irish/British people and their descendants in the new world socialise in bars and pubs. Who cares? It's great fun. If the customer levels are dwindling in Ireland, it's down to the extortionate prices being charged. Nothing makes me angrier than seeing a publican on TV moaning about not getting customers, when he's charging 5 euro a pint ffs.

BraziliaNZ · 04-06-2008 12:33AM

mattman wrote: »

DUBLIN PUBS charge a fortune..which annoys me..

I'm from Carlow..pints in my local are 3.70 (guinn) and 4 (heineken)..

Do you know the government is gettin over a euro per pint! publician gets after costs(which are crazy)..about 70 cent per pint after taxes etc.

so shut up..

I had 9 customers in on monday(yesterday)... NINE...
That wont come CLOSE to covering my costs..let alone any wages for me..

And yes I have rural pub.

m.

Ok sorry buddy I guess my point was directed more at Dublin publicans. Your prices are good, similar to a local in Stonybatter I used to drink at, which was doing a roaring trade last time i was in Dublin and probably still is. So what do you put the lack of trade in your bar down to? Drink driving? Smoking ban? Interesting to hear a publicans view.

gixerfixer · 04-06-2008 12:29PM

Irelands dying pub culture>>>>>Good ridence to it:)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 04-06-2008 01:16PM

mattman wrote: »

DUBLIN PUBS charge a fortune..which annoys me..

I'm from Carlow..pints in my local are 3.70 (guinn) and 4 (heineken)..

Do you know the government is gettin over a euro per pint! publician gets after costs(which are crazy)..about 70 cent per pint after taxes etc.

so shut up..

I had 9 customers in on monday(yesterday)... NINE...
That wont come CLOSE to covering my costs..let alone any wages for me..

And yes I have rural pub.

m.

Sorry to hear that. How would yuour customers react to a varyign the entertainment a little? Dunno if its big enough for pub quizzes... Blind date piss-takes...

Just off the top of my head: people (in Dublin anyway, judging by this thread) apart from price, seem to be getting bored as much as anything.

jdivision · 04-06-2008 01:20PM

mattman wrote: »

DUBLIN PUBS charge a fortune..which annoys me..

I'm from Carlow..pints in my local are 3.70 (guinn) and 4 (heineken)..

Do you know the government is gettin over a euro per pint! publician gets after costs(which are crazy)..about 70 cent per pint after taxes etc.

so shut up..

I had 9 customers in on monday(yesterday)... NINE...
That wont come CLOSE to covering my costs..let alone any wages for me..

And yes I have rural pub.

m.

Then you should be doing other things to get customers in to be honest. Have you looked at doing food, trying to get a lunchtime crowd, providing free sandwiches to people who come in after work and so on. Not saying it's true in your case but a lot of publicans complain and do nothing to improve their lot. It's why certain publicans are hugely successful and others aren't

professore · 04-06-2008 01:22PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Hey - the Europeans spend a night in a pub quiet frequently: most of the morning too, as they can be trusted not to start brawls and pukefests at 2.01 am.

Because all 100000 of them are not all kicked out on the street at once at 2.00 am. There should be no such thing as closing time. It is responsible for a lot of the problems.

professore · 04-06-2008 01:31PM

MOH wrote: »

1. Prices. If you can drink in a house for half what you're paying in the pub, more people are going to drink at home. Especially if money starts getting tight. Prices of non-alcoholic drinks are a joke - in most pubs it's cheaper to drink a pint of beer than a pint of Coke or Fanta, which to me is one contributor to people getting hammered - I'll never drink a soft drink in a pub because you're being fleeced even more than on alcohol.

2. In rural areas, clampdowns on drink driving are definitely hitting pubs. Less people are willing to risk driving home after a feed of pints, there's no local transport, and not everyone can afford taxis, even if you can get them.

3. Lack of 'cafe-bars'. There's loads of European countries you can go to and have a good night in a cafe bar, people who want to drink can, people who don't can drink tea, coffee, or soft drinks without getting ripped off, can generally get decent food. Often as busy and good craic as 'pubs' but just a less intense 'must-drink-alcohol-only' atmosphere. Of course, the government here decided we can't be trusted with such things as we'd all run riot. Despite the fact I've seen large groups of Irish drinking in cafe-bars abroad who didn't instantly turn into slavering alcoholic monsters laying waste to the area around them.

Great post ....

professore · 04-06-2008 01:44PM

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Café bars are cr*p. The atmosphere is dull. Why do you think Irish pubs are so common abroad????

I travel a lot on business. Some of the best craic I have had has been in (so-called) cafe bars, with locals ... Antwerp (Belgium), Copenhagen (Denmark), Eindhoven (Holland), Munich (Germany) and just last Friday, Bonn (Germany) would be my top 5. Also in many of these "strict" places it's still possible to smoke (a bad thing IMHO but shows you that we shouldn't blame Europe for strict laws)

And yes I'm Irish born and bred, like a drink, and recognise craic when I see it. I also think it's bs to say that somehow people don't drink much in these countries ... utter rubbish - they just are more relaxed about it than we are because there's no pressure and the focus is on having a chat not just on skulling vodka and red bull in a 2000 capacity cattle market where the music is so loud it's a health and safety issue and conversation is impossible.

professore · 04-06-2008 01:46PM

Have you thought about organising a bus? I know my auld lad lives in a rural area and it's tough for him to get to the pub and home again since there's no public transport. Young people would use it too I'm sure. Don't know if it's economically viable though ...

mattman wrote: »

DUBLIN PUBS charge a fortune..which annoys me..

I'm from Carlow..pints in my local are 3.70 (guinn) and 4 (heineken)..

Do you know the government is gettin over a euro per pint! publician gets after costs(which are crazy)..about 70 cent per pint after taxes etc.

so shut up..

I had 9 customers in on monday(yesterday)... NINE...
That wont come CLOSE to covering my costs..let alone any wages for me..

And yes I have rural pub.

m.

damonjewel · 04-06-2008 02:11PM

Actually my local in Dublin have started a whole set of initiatives to get people in. Not so long ago they openend and people crammed in but now with various things that have happened the lounge is empty. So they have now got trad night, music night, quiz night, poker classic night, race night etc Probably won't be long till they have a pool table and dart board installed.

As for rural pubs, I can imagine its difficult but let take the example that I am out for a drive with my wife and kids. Why stop at a bar when soft drinks and non-alcoholic beer is as expensive if not more expensive than beer?

Baby4 · 04-06-2008 03:40PM

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ireland dying pub culture

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