Chelsea - Grant + Rijkaard = Messi?

eZe^ · 26-05-2008 12:43AM

I don't know, Grant is a nice enough man and all, but I don't know if he'll be up there with Rijkaard(when Rijkaard is in a particular managerial set up)... Rijkaard is a top quality manager when along side an assistant who is the hard as nails no bullshi* man... If he joins chelsea, I think along with Ten Cates, they can form a partnership thats better than Grant and can maybe rival Mourinho...

The problems that they'll encounter are, the fact that Abramovich wants attractive free flowing football, when the philosophy of this current squad is hard grit winners... Barca have always had a philosophy of patient build ups, since the clubs foundation, and seeing as they are more flair orientated league, it'll be tough for Rijkaard to change an entire ethos without making radical radical changes...

Then, the next point, if Rijkaard is to do it, he'll need to get rid of nearly an entire starting 11 of winners, will Abramovich be happy just to give money to Rijkaard to build a squad he wants to build? I doubt it, if Abramovich is to fork out another 200 million on a new squad, he's going to want his uneducated input to be heard, therefore implementing what is basically a less intelligent 'Galactico' era. (I say less intelligent because Perez signed Galacticos not just in the hope of sexy football, but also with the fact that the players he bought were so so marketable, it seems that Abramovichs main aim is to stroke his own ego by making Chelsea play a brand of 'continental' football)

Call Me Jimmy · 26-05-2008 12:48AM

lol! If messi signed for chelsea I would eat my hat and the hats of all other hat-wearers. Not a chance!

Dave! · 26-05-2008 12:53AM

I've got one of these hats:

5starpool · 26-05-2008 12:54AM

armour87 wrote: »

We have set the standard for results in the Champions league.

Never having won it and one final reached isn't much of a standard to have set.

armour87 · 26-05-2008 12:59AM

Fair point but don't you think their progression in the last five years deserves respect and can only really be rivalled by Liverpool and Milan

dfx- · 26-05-2008 03:05AM

eZe^ wrote: »

Roman Abramovich's dream team;

Kaka

--Alves
Xavi
Fabregas---Ronaldo--
Robinho

--Messi
Toni
Torres----Villa
Etoo

Bench: Sneijder, Aguero, Adebayor, Robben

It'll happen lads, and it'll only cost him a billion or so....

Maybe. But where does the manager fit in Shevchenko?

leninbenjamin · 26-05-2008 03:30AM

eZe^ wrote: »

I don't know, Grant is a nice enough man and all, but I don't know if he'll be up there with Rijkaard(when Rijkaard is in a particular managerial set up)... Rijkaard is a top quality manager when along side an assistant who is the hard as nails no bullshi* man... If he joins chelsea, I think along with Ten Cates, they can form a partnership thats better than Grant and can maybe rival Mourinho...

6 to 1, half dozen to the other in my book. Any manager could look good in a good set up, i think that argument is kind of moot. Would Rijkaard have been able to turn around a dismal season like Grant did? even though Grant didn't win anything, considering the boots he had to fill, and the divas he had to work, with he did remarkably well. i think they are on the same level tbh, good managers but not fantastic. In regards Rijkaard, what Chelsea should be looking at is his failure to basically rebuild the squad when the time came. because it's a rebuilding job that's needed. I think he'd struggle tbh.

kmart6 · 26-05-2008 04:03AM

dfx- wrote: »

Maybe. But where does the manager fit in Shevchenko?

4th sub in the reserves:D

Unearthly · 26-05-2008 04:41AM

armour87 wrote: »

Fair point but don't you think their progression in the last five years deserves respect and can only really be rivalled by Liverpool and Milan

Well No. Porto, Barca and Man Utd won the competition between those 5 years to

It was like the time people made out Man Utd getting to 8 quarter finals in a row was an amazing achievement. Well they only won it once in those 8 years so wasn't really...

CivilServant · 26-05-2008 07:17AM

Chelsea fans should enjoy the process and make the most of it. Billions at your disposal, prospect of new blood coming in, new manager. Ranieri was sacked, Mourinho did better, then Mourinho was let go, Grant did better (sort of). Whoever is going to take the hot seat is going to be world class without a doubt.

IrishMike · 26-05-2008 09:19AM

armour87 wrote: »

Fair point but don't you think their progression in the last five years deserves respect and can only really be rivalled by Liverpool and Milan

Deserves respect yes to a point but to say they are the standard bearers in
Europe is laughable to say the least considering they have never won it!

Mitch Connor · 26-05-2008 09:21AM

IrishMike wrote: »

Deserves respect yes to a point but to say they are the standard bearers in
Europe is laughable to say the least considering they have never won it!

Liverpool getting to two finals and a semi-final is a lot more note worthy then what chelsea have acheived, given that Liverpool haven't spent anywhere near as much on their squad. Chelsea have under-performed given the amount of money spent and the players they have at their disposal.

davyjose · 26-05-2008 10:26AM

armour87 wrote: »

Fair point but don't you think their progression in the last five years deserves respect and can only really be rivalled by Liverpool and Milan

United finished bottom of their group 3 years ago, the same season Chelsea went on to win their second league.
United have since won the league twice and are European Champions.

As for respect for Chelsea? Are you kidding? They bought success, pure and simple.

lordgoat · 26-05-2008 11:38AM

davyjose wrote: »

As for respect for Chelsea? Are you kidding? They bought success, pure and simple.

In this day and age big money is part of success.

It can very easily be aragued that man u have bought success.

Mitch Connor · 26-05-2008 12:02PM

lordgoat wrote: »

In this day and age big money is part of success.

It can very easily be aragued that man u have bought success.

The argument amounts to degrees of buying - spending within your means, spending funded by the club rather than an Oil Company. A nice pissing contest.

DSB · 26-05-2008 12:12PM

Chelsea definitely deserve no respect as a football club. Considering the amount they've spent over such a short period of time I'd actually consider what they've done a failure. In sporting terms, I really wouldn't consider Abramovich to be a very intelligent man. I do hope they get Riijkaard because if he is unable to win anything for 2 years with the quality of player he had at Barcelona, then I can't see how he has a hope in competing with United.

armour87 · 26-05-2008 12:22PM

I totally agree that Abramovich is an impatient buffoon but Uniteds spending is not a million miles away from ours.

My results in Europe comment was more of a consistency in Europe. We were very nearly in 4 of the last 5 finals sure?

IrishMike · 26-05-2008 12:34PM

armour87 wrote: »

I totally agree that Abramovich is an impatient buffoon but Uniteds spending is not a million miles away from ours.

My results in Europe comment was more of a consistency in Europe. We were very nearly in 4 of the last 5 finals sure?

As were Liverpool
Difference is Liverpool actually made it to 2 of them and won one of them.
Chelsea would be lucky to be considered in the top 5 most consistent teams
in Europe when compared the Barca, Liverpool, United, Ac etc.

SantryRed · 26-05-2008 12:46PM

Chelsea won't be getting Messi. There is no chance that will ever happen. Messi will be at Barca for years to come.

Even if Riijkard was to become the manager, can't see why Messi wouldgo to a team who's mindset for the pas few seasons is to win one nil or two nil. Not to open out and go for more.

armour87 · 26-05-2008 12:59PM

IrishMike wrote: »

As were Liverpool
Difference is Liverpool actually made it to 2 of them and won one of them.
Chelsea would be lucky to be considered in the top 5 most consistent teams
in Europe when compared the Barca, Liverpool, United, Ac etc.

etc... & Chelsea?

SantryRed wrote: »

Chelsea won't be getting Messi. There is no chance that will ever happen. Messi will be at Barca for years to come.

Even if Riijkard was to become the manager, can't see why Messi wouldgo to a team who's mindset for the pas few seasons is to win one nil or two nil. Not to open out and go for more.

And look where that's got Barca in the past 2 seasons. 18 points behind league leaders Madrid who aren't that special at all.

SantryRed · 26-05-2008 01:04PM

armour87 wrote: »

And look where that's got Barca in the past 2 seasons. 18 points behind league leaders Madrid who aren't that special at all.

So why would he leave to go with Riijkard who was the manager of the club at the time? Wouldn't make sense to go with the same failure of a manager who was at the club in the last two seasons and won nothing?

He'll be at Barcelona next year with Pep Guardiola. Dream all you want mate but Messi's going no where.

DSB · 26-05-2008 01:14PM

armour87 wrote: »

Uniteds spending is not a million miles away from ours.

Rubbish.

Bounty Hunter · 26-05-2008 01:20PM

Chelsea - Grant = Rijkaard (maybe) Messi doesent come into the equation.

pity as much as many would hate to see him in the blue of Chelsea, id love to see him play in the premiership every week.

26-05-2008 01:42PM

Link

So Hiddink is out, but I found this interesting:

And League Managers' Association chief executive Richard Bevan believes that whoever is next in the Chelsea hot-seat will have to learn to live with the influence of Abramovich.

"I was told that at a dinner in Russia Roman Abramovich said he wanted more involvement in the football side of the business," Bevan said in The Sun. "That is, and was, his true love."

"He said he had contributed 30 per cent towards the club regarding on-pitch activity. That's fairly unusual from a chairman's perspective

IrishMike · 26-05-2008 01:45PM

armour87 wrote: »

etc... & Chelsea?

Not sure what you are trying to say here?
What im saying is that Chelsea are probably the 5th most consistent team in Europe over the past few seasons.
Hardly the standard bearers you are making them out to be

armour87 · 26-05-2008 02:06PM

DSB wrote: »

Rubbish.

Are you taking the piss mate?

Ferdinand 30m
VDS 8m
Veron 28m
Anderson 20m
Hargreaves 20m
Nani 20m
Rooney 30m
Carrick 18m
Saha 13m
Tevez will cost 20/30m

Il give you Vidic, Evra and Ronaldo. All bargains.

We, unfortunately don't do bargains due to Romans impatience in my point of view. Take Bosingwa for example. £16m for a right back who's so so while Liverpool get in this Degen guy for free and he could prove to be much better. Very confusing and rather embarassing I'l admit.

But United bought their way to success too and anybody who says contary is wrong.

@ Mike, you said Chelsea would be lucky to be considered in the top 5 most consistent teams in the last few years in Europe, but WITHOUT DOUBT they are in the top 5. No team would ever have wanted to be drawn with them. We were put out twice by teams who went on to win it and lost out this year by a penalty.

IrishMike · 26-05-2008 02:08PM

armour87 wrote: »

Are you taking the piss mate?

Ferdinand 30m
VDS 8m
Veron 28m
Anderson 20m
Hargreaves 20m
Nani 20m
Rooney 30m
Carrick 18m
Saha 13m
Tevez will cost 20/30m

Il give you Vidic, Evra and Ronaldo. All bargains.

We, unfortunately don't do bargains due to Romans impatience in my point of view. Take Bosingwa for example. £16m for a right back who's so so while Liverpool get in this Degen guy for free and he could prove to be much better. Very confusing and rather embarassing I'l admit.

But United bought their way to success too and anybody who says contary is wrong.

Won the league last year and went out and bought Nani and Anderson for 30m+
Not exactly bargin basement stuff.
You need to spend to stay on top, simple as that.

DSB · 26-05-2008 02:11PM

armour87 wrote: »

Are you taking the piss mate?

Ferdinand 30m
VDS 8m
Veron 28m
Anderson 20m
Hargreaves 20m
Nani 20m
Rooney 30m
Carrick 18m
Saha 13m
Tevez will cost 20/30m

Il give you Vidic, Evra and Ronaldo. All bargains.

We, unfortunately don't do bargains due to Romans impatience in my point of view. Take Bosingwa for example. £16m for a right back who's so so while Liverpool get in this Degen guy for free and he could prove to be much better. Very confusing and rather embarassing I'l admit.

But United bought their way to success too and anybody who says contary is wrong.

@ Mike, you said Chelsea would be lucky to be considered in the top 5 most consistent teams in the last few years in Europe, but WITHOUT DOUBT they are in the top 5. No team would ever have wanted to be drawn with them. We were put out twice by teams who went on to win it and lost out this year by a penalty.

You're quoting players signed 6 and 7 years ago in there though. Hugely distorts the facts. United aren't afraid to spend big, but they spend big over time. Chelsea just spend big whenever Abramovich decides he wants a big name player. There is no comparison.

26-05-2008 02:14PM

armour87 wrote: »

Are you taking the piss mate?

Ferdinand 30m
VDS 8m
Veron 28m
Anderson 20m
Hargreaves 20m
Nani 20m
Rooney 30m
Carrick 18m
Saha 13m
Tevez will cost 20/30m

Il give you Vidic, Evra and Ronaldo. All bargains.

We, unfortunately don't do bargains due to Romans impatience in my point of view. Take Bosingwa for example. £16m for a right back who's so so while Liverpool get in this Degen guy for free and he could prove to be much better. Very confusing and rather embarassing I'l admit.

But United bought their way to success too and anybody who says contary is wrong.

@ Mike, you said Chelsea would be lucky to be considered in the top 5 most consistent teams in the last few years in Europe, but WITHOUT DOUBT they are in the top 5. No team would ever have wanted to be drawn with them. We were put out twice by teams who went on to win it and lost out this year by a penalty.

United have also done very well on the selling side of things to finance those deals.

Ruud, Beckham, Stam, Rossi, Howard, P. Neville, Pique for 6m it seems, hopefully Saha as well as the fact that our youth academy makes us a fortune every year. Selling Veron at a loss was actually a great piece of business cos Chelsea were stupid enough to pay over the odds for a player who had shown he couldnt make it in England.

Fact is EVERY club has spent to get success. United mainly worked their way there by signing using money generated from the sales of players whilst we were under the stweardship of the notoriously scabby Martin Edwards. Since the success started and the money coming in has increased, United have spent big to stay big. Net spend United have done very very well.

Chelsea on the other hand have spent enorous amounts in a very short space of time. They didnt work their way to being able to do that like United, Arsenal and Liverpool have. They were in massive debt and rumoured to be 2 days off administartion when Roman saved the day.

And bar Veron, all those signing have been successful. How many flops have Chelsea wasted money on in recent times?

Shevchenko
Boularhouz
Malouda
Veron
Maniche
Kezman
Glen Johnson
Parker
Sidwell
Anelka
Ben Haim
Cant remember his name but that chap u spent 8-9 million on in January and hasnt kicked a ball.

Im sure there are many more.

And the Mikel situation was hilarious, we made 12 million off u for a player who never had a training session as a United player.

lordgoat · 26-05-2008 02:29PM

armour87 wrote: »

Ferdinand 30m
VDS 8m
Veron 28m
Anderson 20m
Hargreaves 20m
Nani 20m
Rooney 30m
Carrick 18m
Saha 13m
Tevez will cost 20/30m

Your transfer fees were way off.

Ferdinand - 29M
VDS 3M
Anderson +Nani - 28M in total if they win trophies
Rooney 28M
Saha 10M
Tevez 20M
I also think Hargreaves was 18

Also you forget to mention the amount of cash that was generated by the sales of players

Chelsea - Grant + Rijkaard = Messi?

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