CL Final: United -v- Chelsea

Spud83 · 23-05-2008 12:48PM

selpher wrote: »

Yeah they were very composed. What great signings they look already, esp anderson. Hope chelsea go that route instead of the fading superstars one.

I think the problem with Chelsea (and this isn't a pop) is that the manager either it be Grant or someone new knows that the have to win the CL or the league to keep their job. So it is hard to trust young players when you wont be given the time for them to develop, especially if you are given the money to get established players.

grahamo · 23-05-2008 12:59PM

gucci wrote: »

Do you remember how composed Shevchenko was in 2005 during the shoot-out? Didnt do him much good that day.

I know Shevchenko missed a peno against Liverpool but he's a big game player and he would have still wanted to take one. Thats the difference between him and 'Le Sulk' Anelka.

LuckyLloyd · 23-05-2008 02:07PM

Anelka has been a problem mentally his whole career. He is a mercenary who is in it for the money and probably doesn't really love football that much.

Say what you like about Terry, but he turns up, takes responsibility upon himself, gives 100% every game he plays and clearly loves the club he plays for and the game itself.

Mr. Presentable · 23-05-2008 02:20PM

From Milan website:
HONOUR TO MANCHESTER UNITED EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS
5/22/2008
MILAN - Manchester United, European champions for the third time in its history (the last time in 1999), followed Milan in the History Books of the Champions League. With particular reference to the nice words with regards to Milan in the post-game interview last night by Sir Alex Ferguson, but not only, our sincere congratulations to the winners in the Moscow Final, which must be extended also to Chelsea who arrived just a step away from the victory.

Now that's classy!

dirkey_wynne · 23-05-2008 04:13PM

Well, I have just whiled away quite some time reading about 30 pages of this thread!

So, I was at the game myself, here are my thoughts on it.

I felt United were by far the better side in the first half. But for more composure from Carrick and Tevez, we should have been at least 2 up and cruising. At that point, it would have been game over I think.

For my old friend IREGK back there, who was slating off Rooney, yes, this was one of Rooney's poorer games (you'll love that). But, at the same time, he was the cause of some of our better moments. Like when he dispossed (I think it was Carvalho) and sprinted to the halfway line, before an inch perfect 60 yard crossfield pass, left a galloping Ronaldo without having to break stride to collect and fire in the cross from which Tevez had his header saved by Cech before Carrick missed the rebound. He also later played a glorious ball across the box, which Tevez managed to miss an open goal from. What people seem to miss with Rooney (bar us Utd fans) is the amount of work he does for the team, and how often he is involved in anything good that Utd do going forward, no matter how badly he is playing. Look at the amount of times we lose when he isn't playing, this is no coincidence.

I tell you what, Drogba or Rooney in my side? Rooney each and every time.

Then, first half, Chelsea get a poxy equaliser. 2 deflections and a slipping keeper. Typical luck, but then, we had the luck later on when Chelsea hit the post. Not so much Drogbas one, which was always wide, but Lampards. Chelsea were far and away the better side in the 2nd half, Utd just couldn't get on the ball. There was only one winner during that 2nd half in my eyes. It was awful.

Then came ET. I thought it was pretty even. I know Lamps hit the bar and that, but Giggs should have scored - he hsould have taken that one with his right.

Penalties was utter torture. I was in the side stand at the penalties end of the ground, watching JT making his run up was one of the worst moments of my life. Luckily, and for me, a penalty shoot out is luck, we prevailed, and I had probably the happiest moment of my life dancing around that stadium hugging random strangers. To that person way back who said about penalties that it isn't a lottery, that if they practice properly they'll prevail - that just doesn't make sense. If both teams practice properly, does that mean it will go on all night? It comes down to a bit of luck - a slipped centre back, a keeper maknig the right choice etc.

For those who slate JT for taking that penalty, saying he did it for personal glory, I would say, grow up. How do you know he did it for personal glory? I do not like JT, I must say. But I respect himi for having the balls to stand up and take that penalty. I remarked to the lad beside me (a Chelsea fan, bless him, nice bloke and had to put up with me going mental when we won) how, had I been going up to take a penalty at that point, I wouldn't have been able, due to being physically exhausted after watching ... that's WATCHING 120 minutes of football. My legs were wobbling as I stood to watch, god knows how they felt after actually playing.

To say he did it for personal glory, is ridiculous if you ask me. From what I have read before, a lot of managers will ask who is up to taking one. I can imagine there are a lot of players who shirked away, didn't Nicolas Anelka even admit in an interview that he was asked if he wanted to take one of the first 5 but said no? So I assume Grant asked who was willing, and John Terry bravely volunteered. No, I don't like the guy. But I would play for a captain like that, someone with the balls to step forward and take a penalty on a rain soaked pitch, after 120 minutes of energy sapping football in front of millions. That's balls.

Crying after the game? Yeah, I swear he's not a real man because of that. Grow the fook up.

eddiehead · 23-05-2008 04:43PM

Excellent post,

+1 for Rooney too, IMO Uniteds most talented player, can have a bad attitude at times, but hes genuine World Class and fully deserves to be a European Champion. His workrate and reading of the game are phenomenal, without him, Uniteds attack is a lot lot weaker. In a way, its a pity for him Ronnie had such a good season, he hasnt got half the credit he deserves.

patmac · 23-05-2008 04:58PM

dirkey_wynne wrote: »

Well, I have just whiled away quite some time reading about 30 pages of this thread!

So, I was at the game myself, here are my thoughts on it.

I felt United were by far the better side in the first half. But for more composure from Carrick and Tevez, we should have been at least 2 up and cruising. At that point, it would have been game over I think.

For my old friend IREGK back there, who was slating off Rooney, yes, this was one of Rooney's poorer games (you'll love that). But, at the same time, he was the cause of some of our better moments. Like when he dispossed (I think it was Carvalho) and sprinted to the halfway line, before an inch perfect 60 yard crossfield pass, left a galloping Ronaldo without having to break stride to collect and fire in the cross from which Tevez had his header saved by Cech before Carrick missed the rebound. He also later played a glorious ball across the box, which Tevez managed to miss an open goal from. What people seem to miss with Rooney (bar us Utd fans) is the amount of work he does for the team, and how often he is involved in anything good that Utd do going forward, no matter how badly he is playing. Look at the amount of times we lose when he isn't playing, this is no coincidence.

I tell you what, Drogba or Rooney in my side? Rooney each and every time.

Then, first half, Chelsea get a poxy equaliser. 2 deflections and a slipping keeper. Typical luck, but then, we had the luck later on when Chelsea hit the post. Not so much Drogbas one, which was always wide, but Lampards. Chelsea were far and away the better side in the 2nd half, Utd just couldn't get on the ball. There was only one winner during that 2nd half in my eyes. It was awful.

Then came ET. I thought it was pretty even. I know Lamps hit the bar and that, but Giggs should have scored - he hsould have taken that one with his right.

Penalties was utter torture. I was in the side stand at the penalties end of the ground, watching JT making his run up was one of the worst moments of my life. Luckily, and for me, a penalty shoot out is luck, we prevailed, and I had probably the happiest moment of my life dancing around that stadium hugging random strangers. To that person way back who said about penalties that it isn't a lottery, that if they practice properly they'll prevail - that just doesn't make sense. If both teams practice properly, does that mean it will go on all night? It comes down to a bit of luck - a slipped centre back, a keeper maknig the right choice etc.

For those who slate JT for taking that penalty, saying he did it for personal glory, I would say, grow up. How do you know he did it for personal glory? I do not like JT, I must say. But I respect himi for having the balls to stand up and take that penalty. I remarked to the lad beside me (a Chelsea fan, bless him, nice bloke and had to put up with me going mental when we won) how, had I been going up to take a penalty at that point, I wouldn't have been able, due to being physically exhausted after watching ... that's WATCHING 120 minutes of football. My legs were wobbling as I stood to watch, god knows how they felt after actually playing.

To say he did it for personal glory, is ridiculous if you ask me. From what I have read before, a lot of managers will ask who is up to taking one. I can imagine there are a lot of players who shirked away, didn't Nicolas Anelka even admit in an interview that he was asked if he wanted to take one of the first 5 but said no? So I assume Grant asked who was willing, and John Terry bravely volunteered. No, I don't like the guy. But I would play for a captain like that, someone with the balls to step forward and take a penalty on a rain soaked pitch, after 120 minutes of energy sapping football in front of millions. That's balls.

Crying after the game? Yeah, I swear he's not a real man because of that. Grow the fook up.

Good post you lucky fecker for being there. Should bring the thread to a nice end.

CHD · 23-05-2008 05:01PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It happens. Get over it. That u accuse United of being any worse solely because they have a larger number of fans simply highlights what a bitter bitter little person u are. And all the L'pool fans who maoned about United fans doing exactly this to them on here in 2005, u really are helping their cause...

When did i say there worse because they have more fans.Im not bitter at all.We threw it away in the end it was our fault.You cant just celebrate winning you have to go on and on and on bitching and moaning and picking at things, your pathetic!

Nalz · 23-05-2008 05:05PM

chdpoker wrote: »

When did i say there worse because they have more fans.Im not bitter at all.We threw it away in the end it was our fault.You cant just celebrate winning you have to go on and on and on bitching and moaning and picking at things, your pathetic!

okay. lets stop now.

as in now

as in like now

now?

yep now

Ruskie4Rent · 23-05-2008 05:26PM

dirkey_wynne wrote: »

. To that person way back who said about penalties that it isn't a lottery, that if they practice properly they'll prevail - that just doesn't make sense. If both teams practice properly, does that mean it will go on all night? It comes down to a bit of luck - a slipped centre back, a keeper maknig the right choice etc.

I can't agree with that. Lotteries are completely random, like flipping a coin. Shoot outs are the last resort in deciding games that are just too close to call. They are the ultimate test of mental stength, and I believe whoever wins are the worthy winners of a very close contest.

Had Terry scored, ronaldo's miss would be the talking point and we'd probably be watching images of him crying(he always does), believing he cost his team the trophy. Chelsea would've scored 5 out of 5, leaving very few people able to doubt their mental strength, to do what needs to be done to become worthy champions.

All he had to do was hit it hard to the keeper's left and that medal would be his. He knew this as he was taking his run up but something caused him to plant his standing foot badly and make him fall as he hit it.
He could just be rubbish at penos or maybe his mind was on the celebrations and not at the task at hand. I just think the nerves got the better of him. Whatever made him slip, it certainly wasn't luck.

eddiehead · 23-05-2008 05:35PM

Wheather or not its luck is up for debate, but JT missing his peno can hardly be chalked up to lack of bottle/ mental steel. They all took peno's from the same spot, he was simply the unlucky one who fell victim to a slippy surface.

Ruskie4Rent · 23-05-2008 05:58PM

topnutz wrote: »

Wheather or not its luck is up for debate, but JT missing his peno can hardly be chalked up to lack of bottle/ mental steel. They all took peno's from the same spot, he was simply the unlucky one who fell victim to a slippy surface.

Exactly, 14 of them took one from the same spot. One person slipped, and he wouldn't have had he placed his foot better. Sometimes thats all it comes down to. Cruel, definitely, but not unlucky.

I think JT's reputation as a hard english defender is making it difficult for people to admit that the nerves got to him. It was the most daunting moment any footballer would have ever have to face, one kick for the CL trophy.
While i'm not questioing his bottle in volounteering for the task(in fact, i admire him for it), I find it hard to believe that the nerves didn't get to him a little.

I would be more willing to accept the excuse that he's a center half and, perhaps, shouldn't have taken the peno(he wouldn't have done had drogba been available), than he's just unlucky and he was the victim to the slippy pitch.

davyjose · 23-05-2008 06:17PM

topnutz wrote: »

Excellent post,

+1 for Rooney too, IMO Uniteds most talented player, can have a bad attitude at times, but hes genuine World Class and fully deserves to be a European Champion. His workrate and reading of the game are phenomenal, without him, Uniteds attack is a lot lot weaker. In a way, its a pity for him Ronnie had such a good season, he hasnt got half the credit he deserves.

No way - I'm a united fan, and Rooney is my favourite player, but he has simply NOT lived up to his potential. Yes he adds an incredible amount to united, but this guy had the potential to be the best in the world. I don't think he'll ever be now.

He seriously needs to improve his finishing and ditch the scowl too. His attitude when he got subbed the other night was IMO disgraceful, and it's that sort of thing that's holding him back.

23-05-2008 06:18PM

chdpoker wrote: »

When did i say there worse because they have more fans.Im not bitter at all.We threw it away in the end it was our fault.You cant just celebrate winning you have to go on and on and on bitching and moaning and picking at things, your pathetic!

U didnt, im saying that u are saying United are worse. im saying they have more fans so its more noticable.

Im very happy, enjoying my win, and in the case of bitter little people like u, Im defending my club. But Im done. Ive said my piece. Im not humouring your bitter little sideshow anymore, another for my ignore list.

Boggles · 23-05-2008 06:18PM

davyjose wrote: »

No way - I'm a united fan, and Rooney is my favourite player, but he has simply NOT lived up to his potential. Yes he adds an incredible amount to united, but this guy had the potential to be the best in the world. I don't think he'll ever be now.
.

He is 22

23-05-2008 06:19PM

davyjose wrote: »

No way - I'm a united fan, and Rooney is my favourite player, but he has simply NOT lived up to his potential. Yes he adds an incredible amount to united, but this guy had the potential to be the best in the world. I don't think he'll ever be now.

He seriously needs to improve his finishing and ditch the scowl too. His attitude when he got subbed the other night was IMO disgraceful, and it's that sort of thing that's holding him back.

He doesnt have the flash and noticable skills of certain other players but he;s the engine of our team. i think his drive and determination compensates for the lack of it that Carrick has with his overly relaxed demeanour.

Rooney is crucial to united. And he had a decent season, 3rd highest assists tally in the League behind Ashley young and cesc. Which is great considering he doesnt take any corners or free kicks.

davyjose · 23-05-2008 06:24PM

Boggles wrote: »

He is 22

Exactly - he's not 18 anymore.

eddiehead · 23-05-2008 06:26PM

Well, we wont agree on this, but heres how I see it.
If he takes that peno 100 times, 99 times he'll stay on his feet, wheather or not he scores is not the point. This goes for every player in that match, Its a simple however freak and unlikely error, to make, but it could happen to anybody. Nerves was an issue for everybody, but hardly the deciding factor in him hitting the floor. I do agree that in relation to the rest of the squad he might be crap at penos, but hardly to the extent that he cant stay on his feet when he takes one. It was simply a freak, unfortunate incident, or to nick a phrase from the poker forum, "Bad Variance":D

EDIT: wow, a lot of Rooney discussion got in there in the space of time i was writing that lol

davyjose · 23-05-2008 06:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Rooney is crucial to united. And he had a decent season, 3rd highest assists tally in the League behind Ashley young and cesc. Which is great considering he doesnt take any corners or free kicks.

How many goals did he get? Are you genuinely pleased with his haul?

eddiehead · 23-05-2008 06:38PM

Theres a very interesting stat out there somewhere, which shows United this season(up to February IIRC) with and without Rooney. I know hes a striker, and his goal tally isnt great, but his workrate is immense, he adds a HUGE amount to the team. Anyway, with Ronaldo banging them in left right and center it must be hard to get a look in;)

23-05-2008 06:39PM

davyjose wrote: »

How many goals did he get? Are you genuinely pleased with his haul?

How many goals did he get?

12 in the league
2 in the cup
4 in Europe

Add in the assist tally of 10 for the league and thats a tally that we know of (I dont know his assists tally for Europe and FA Cup) of 28 goals that wouldnt have been scored without him.

Yea im happy enough.

Nobody works harder than him with the exceptions of Tevez, Anderson and Hargreaves.

davyjose · 23-05-2008 06:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

How many goals did he get?

12 in the league
2 in the cup
4 in Europe

Add in the assist tally of 10 for the league and thats a tally that we know of (I dont know his assists tally for Europe and FA Cup) of 28 goals that wouldnt have been scored without him.

Yea im happy enough.

Nobody works harder than him with the exceptions of Tevez and Hargreaves.

I'm not. And I'll tell you why: He's not good enough in front of goal this season, and he's too petulant.

I KNOW he can perform better than he has this season. I'm talking mainly in front of goal, but hey! he's a striker. I love Rooney, and i think he can do better. Like I said, he could be the best in the world, but not at the way he's been lately.

Ruskie4Rent · 23-05-2008 07:23PM

topnutz wrote: »

Well, we wont agree on this, but heres how I see it.
If he takes that peno 100 times, 99 times he'll stay on his feet, wheather or not he scores is not the point. This goes for every player in that match, Its a simple however freak and unlikely error, to make, but it could happen to anybody. Nerves was an issue for everybody, but hardly the deciding factor in him hitting the floor. I do agree that in relation to the rest of the squad he might be crap at penos, but hardly to the extent that he cant stay on his feet when he takes one. It was simply a freak, unfortunate incident, or to nick a phrase from the poker forum, "Bad Variance":D

EDIT: wow, a lot of Rooney discussion got in there in the space of time i was writing that lol

But it wasn't a freak accident. He would've slipped 100/100 times if kept taking the penalty the same way. It's not a coincidence that the only player that slipped, slipped at penalty with the most pressure attached.

Penalties should be easy for all professional footballers, IMO. The whole point of having them is to see how well the player can deal with the pressure of scoring them.

As i said, it was cruel that he slipped. It is horrible that it would happen at such a vital moment, regardless of your opinions on JT. Sayin that it was unlucky because he didn't take it properly is inaccurate though.

_blank_ · 23-05-2008 07:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Nobody works harder than him with the exceptions of Tevez and Hargreaves.

Harsh on Anderson imo

Mitch Connor · 23-05-2008 07:56PM

davyjose wrote: »

I'm not. And I'll tell you why: He's not good enough in front of goal this season, and he's too petulant.

I KNOW he can perform better than he has this season. I'm talking mainly in front of goal, but hey! he's a striker. I love Rooney, and i think he can do better. Like I said, he could be the best in the world, but not at the way he's been lately.

agreed - its annoying. However, without him we lack shape, he gives the team shape (somehow!) which is very important.

Eirebear · 23-05-2008 08:00PM

I cant really be bothered reading all this TBH.
Just wondering if the coverage of "Englands Shame" has been as censored as the BBC's?

lordgoat · 23-05-2008 08:18PM

davyjose wrote: »

I'm not. And I'll tell you why: He's not good enough in front of goal this season, and he's too petulant.

I KNOW he can perform better than he has this season. I'm talking mainly in front of goal, but hey! he's a striker. I love Rooney, and i think he can do better. Like I said, he could be the best in the world, but not at the way he's been lately.

So you clearly think he#s reached his full potential at 22. Yeah well done there.

His attitude has improved every year at man u, and yeah he's missed a few chances but no one can fault his work rate and never say die attitude.

I love wayne rooney, he's the second player after Scholes i admire most. I love how he plays soccer. I think he reaction at getting subbed was fair enough, he didn't want to go off in the biggest game of his career, a match he prob knew he could have played better in, but as pointed out he carved open two of our clearest chances and was an outlet for the defence the whole match.

He would be the most difficult player to replace if he left.

kmart6 · 24-05-2008 01:33AM

davyjose wrote: »

Exactly - he's not 18 anymore.

So what,after 22 there's no room for improvement?!

citytillidie · 24-05-2008 01:34AM

More crying images

24-05-2008 01:35AM

DesF wrote: »

Harsh on Anderson imo

Good point, I have to include the little magician now in that actually!

CL Final: United -v- Chelsea

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