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Drogba versus Benitez

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Comments

  • #32
    gucci
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,321 ✭✭✭gucci


    DerKaiser wrote: »
    Drogba is painted with the brush of his actions in seasons past, I admit that, but he has copped on big-time, to suggest he dives in every is totally exaggerational,

    Ahhh faffing about waving your arms and falling on your arse every second time the ball is hoofed over your head is diving. He does that every game, because basically sometimes the team just hoof the ball aimlessly up to him,
    DerKaiser wrote: »
    And Benitez did well to win honours with Valencia, but I have no respect for him since he came to england, Liverpool are still 4th team in england and the CL in '05 was a fluke, he does nothing for me whatsoever
    I think you'll find the '05 win wasnt a fluke, now that united won the Champions league on penalties, that means that Liverpools win in 2005 has been upgraded*


    *Thats what i have been telling one of my man utd mates today,who spent the last 3years telling me what a fluke liverpools win was.


  • #33
    Jazzy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    dublinario wrote: »
    In my defence, I started this thread specifically on the negative press Benitez had garnered for criticising Drogba's diving, versus the fulsome praise Drogba had garnered for playing a rare, clean game.

    i know, but ya see the press are very fickle like that and as pepe le fritz said, its like a pantomine. i dont really take all that sort of pre game talk seriously at all and if ppl do then bad things might happen... i.e - vidic saying drogba was a diver before last nites game and then poor old didier getting sent off for slapping him and thus not being able to take a penalty. then we all got to see john terry dive but the silly bugger only went and did that when he was taking a penalty... oh john.
    Also, I haven't once resorted to "your team's diver is worse than mine".

    yeah but other posters have


  • #34
    dublinario
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 633 ✭✭✭dublinario


    DerKaiser wrote: »
    And Benitez did well to win honours with Valencia, but I have no respect for him since he came to england, Liverpool are still 4th team in england and the CL in '05 was a fluke, he does nothing for me whatsoever

    So that's it then? Case closed? Benitez has absolutely no talent as a coach, whatsoever? Because what, he fluked the CL in 05? Which part? Just the final, or all the teams on the way? Just the penos, or the three goal comeback? Or was the whole run a fluke? And what, 07 was lightening striking twice then, in getting to a second final?

    If you peddle such nonsense down the pub, do your mates listen to you? If you don't rate Benitez, fine, but you don't enhance your debating credentials by portraying him as Roddy Collins. If he's wanting, fine. If he's lacking, ok. But he's clearly not as bad as your childishly making out. I think Ferguson is a brilliant manager, Wenger is in many ways a genius, and Grant is being very harshly treated by the press. If you can't talk about an opposition team's manager with even slight detachment and without thinly veiled hatred, what can you really add to any debate other than incitement to derail it?


  • #35
    Bubs101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Bubs101


    dublinario wrote: »
    If Grant had highlighted Gerrards antics, I think it would have been fair enough. I don't agree that silence was a high road, because it implies that calling a diver a diver is a low road.

    Benitez wasn't so much calling a diver a diver but trying to influence the referee's decisions before the match. Alot of managers do it but it was an attempt at an underhand tactic that backfired massively.
    dublinario wrote: »
    That's a mental assertion. You're claiming that Drogba's diving is subtle? Well I (and practically every other non-Chelsea fan in the world) must all be mighty astute then to see through his brilliant charade. The reason he doesn't get sent off is because he goes down under minimal contact, rather than no contact. Doesn't make it any less reprehensible.

    Well, the referees seem to fall for it quite alot and they are far more qualified than you and practically every other non-Chelsea fan in the world. Also, if he goes down under minimal contact than he's just assisting the referee by showing that a foul was commited. If anything he should be applauded for helping officials
    dublinario wrote: »
    Again, you have a pretty low standard of 'cleverness' if you regard Drogba's antics as being such. It isn't Stephen Hawkings territory to know that faking an injury will give you a rest. It's just disgusting. If all 22 players were all blessed with Drogba's 'cleverness', sure we may as well pack up and start watching baseball.
    That's like saying if all 22 players were blessed with Drogba's skill and pace we'd see an amazing game. All players are different so I don't see your point there
    dublinario wrote: »
    What a lame argument. Drogba's not so bad, because this guy's worse? Can you address Drogba without reference to Stevie G?
    Well what are we meant to say, Drogba doesn't dive? For the record, it's not a lame argument at all. If Rafa points out that Drogba is a diver and attacks his character because he believes it's bad for the game, not to give his team an advantage (according to him), he should do the same thing for Stevie G


  • #36
    dublinario
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 633 ✭✭✭dublinario


    Bubs101 wrote: »
    Benitez wasn't so much calling a diver a diver but trying to influence the referee's decisions before the match. Alot of managers do it but it was an attempt at an underhand tactic that backfired massively.

    I largely agree with you on that Bubs. I just found it annoying that not one journalist had the balls to write a piece saying "he shouldn't need motivating to play fair". Is it a coincidence that one of his best ever games in a blue shirt was also one of his cleanest? Drogba's an oustanding talent: he has it in him to play at a world class level for 90 minutes, fairly.
    Bubs101 wrote: »
    Well, the referees seem to fall for it quite alot and they are far more qualified than you and practically every other non-Chelsea fan in the world.

    You can't really believe this, can you? Surely you're just arguing now for argument's sake? If the referees are so qualified and adept at spotting diving, then I guess there's no such thing as diving. My mistake. Apologies for wasting everybody's time.
    Bubs101 wrote: »
    Also, if he goes down under minimal contact than he's just assisting the referee by showing that a foul was commited. If anything he should be applauded for helping officials

    (Yawn). This is just getting silly. On what planet is 'minimal contact' synonymous with 'foul'? Last time I checked, football was a full-contact sport. 'Minimal contact' does not mean a foul. Perhaps you're thinking of badminton?
    Bubs101 wrote: »
    That's like saying if all 22 players were blessed with Drogba's skill and pace we'd see an amazing game. All players are different so I don't see your point there

    Really? It's not a difficult point, but I'll replay it: you say Drogba's play-acting is 'clever', but if everybody was so 'clever' then we'd have 22 people play-acting and the game would be as stop-start as American Football. It would also be sh*t.
    Bubs101 wrote: »
    Well what are we meant to say, Drogba doesn't dive? For the record, it's not a lame argument at all.

    No, it really is a lame argument Bubs. It's the "knives aren't dangerous, because guns are more dangerous" argument. It doesn't stack up. I'm debating Drogba here, and you (and others) are looking for an 'out' with Gerrard and Ronaldo. Start a Gerrard thread, and you won't find me doing the same. There's a better way to argue, but it takes a little more thought.


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  • #37
    Bubs101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Bubs101


    In fairness, if you want to debate whether Drogba is a diver it would be a very very short thread


  • #38
    DerKaiser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 505 ✭✭✭DerKaiser


    Come on! Drogba gets continually harrassed about diving, every team has divers, many way worse than Drogba, credit the man for what he is, a magnificent world class footballer and let's have less of your celery.

    Man Utd beat a few teams convincingly to get to the final, pool only beat leverkussen convincingly in '05, that pool side were the most limited team to EVER win the champions league, but hey, if Greece can win the Euro championship then I suppose Liverpool can win the champions league.


  • #39
    dc69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭dc69


    DerKieser has in my eyes won the award for the stupidest person on boards.ie

    Fluke?

    3 finals in 4 years!


  • #40
    DerKaiser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 505 ✭✭✭DerKaiser


    Stupid? At least I can spell DerKaiser correctly, 3 fluked finals in 4 years, pool fans are blind and totally unobjective to a man, it was a pleasure to knock your arses out of the champions league and do it PROPERLY! No phantom goals, no penalty shoot outs, by scoring goals

    Numpty ****ing moron


  • #41
    selpher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭selpher


    Can't argue with what Rafa did. Jose always did it. He wanted to influence the ref or keep drogba from diving and winning free kicks, either of which would be a plus. I just think if he said nothing then Drogba would've played like he did last night and we might not have got through.


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  • #42
    dublinario
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 633 ✭✭✭dublinario


    DerKaiser wrote: »
    Come on! Drogba gets continually harrassed about diving, every team has divers, many way worse than Drogba, credit the man for what he is, a magnificent world class footballer and let's have less of your celery.

    I've conceded several times in this thread that he's a brilliant player. He really is awesome. But I don't think there's many divers that would be "way worse" than Drogba, even if you feel he isn't thee worst. I think if you asked anybody to draft their top 5 premiership divers he'd probably be in there. Is that just because he's high profile? I don't think so. I think it would be a fair reflection of how much he dives and simulates injuries.
    DerKaiser wrote: »
    Man Utd beat a few teams convincingly to get to the final, pool only beat leverkussen convincingly in '05, that pool side were the most limited team to EVER win the champions league, but hey, if Greece can win the Euro championship then I suppose Liverpool can win the champions league.

    I agree that it's definitely one of the most limited squads I can recall to win the champions league, when you consider we had Cisse and Smicer to come off the bench, Baros on the pitch, Kewell and Traore in the starting 11, Biscan in the squad, Nunez got caps along the way etc. Benitez' coaching qualities have been maligned in this thread, but surely that makes his achievement all the better?

    As for not beating good teams along the way, we beat Monaco, Deportivo, Juventus and Chelsea to name a few. "Convincingly" is subjective. I'm not trying to flame you DerKaiser, but I can't understand how any sensible person wouldn't be embarrassed to still peddle the whole 'flukey run' theory after we repeated the feat in 2007? I didn't think 2005 was a 'flukey run' at the time, but when we got to the final again 2 years later? The jury's in. No fluke, just good tactics in Europe (as opposed to our muckness in the Premiership!)


  • #43
    dc69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭dc69


    DerKaiser wrote: »
    Stupid? At least I can spell DerKaiser correctly, 3 fluked finals in 4 years, pool fans are blind and totally unobjective to a man, it was a pleasure to knock your arses out of the champions league and do it PROPERLY! No phantom goals, no penalty shoot outs, by scoring goals

    Numpty ****ing moron

    Why would I bother double checking your stupid german name,your posts are bad enough already.your so bitter you couldnt finish the job properly.With your hero captain bottling it.Dont take your frustrations out on Liverpool fans cause you werent good enough.We beat chelski in 2 of those finals,you make your own luck,fluke doesnt come into the equation when you do it 3 out of 4 years.

    Feels good to have a cl trophy in the cabinet:p

    You make me feel sick that I supported Chelski last night:(

    Whats a numpty?

    I think you mean bottlers i.e chelski lol

    Enjoy your ban.


  • #44
    dublinario
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 633 ✭✭✭dublinario


    DerKaiser wrote: »
    Stupid? At least I can spell DerKaiser correctly

    What a grievous error to not be able to spell "DerKaiser", rolling off the tongue as it does. You're starting to get hot under the collar DerKaiser if that's what you've resorted to.


  • #45
    DerKaiser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 505 ✭✭✭DerKaiser


    A numpty is an idiot

    I'm sorry guys, pool are a very limited team and you were not convincing in your last three seasons, finals or no finals, under Houllier when you won the plastic treble you were so bloody boring and un technical in fact Liverpool have been pretty rubbish since around 1990, at least when you had your success in the '70s and '80s it was by playing decent football, but you can't tell Liverpool fans that, they don't listen, all they can do is attack the teams above them out of spite and jealousy


  • #46
    dublinario
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 633 ✭✭✭dublinario


    DerKaiser wrote: »
    I'm sorry guys, pool are a very limited team and you were not convincing in your last three seasons, finals or no finals, under Houllier when you won the plastic treble you were so bloody boring and un technical in fact Liverpool have been pretty rubbish since around 1990, at least when you had your success in the '70s and '80s it was by playing decent football, but you can't tell Liverpool fans that, they don't listen, all they can do is attack the teams above them out of spite and jealousy

    I think we play better ball under Benitez than we did under Houllier, but I would accept that it still frequently isn't neutral-friendly. Our record in Europe under Benitez I think holds up well against the other 3 of the big 4, and I don't think it can be intelligently watered-down with cries of 'boring', no English team really dominates in Europe, through all the stages of the competition. Both Chelsea and UTD have had their troubles on the road in recent campaigns, and neither have been gung-ho either. Benitez is definitely successful at planning and strategising our European endeavours (although i would accept the criticism that we're usually out of the title race, and hence can focus on Europe).


  • #47
    dc69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭dc69


    Chelski's football is essentially the same style as Liverpools

    Its funny when a chelski fan tells you,your team play boring football.


  • #48
    dublinario
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 633 ✭✭✭dublinario


    dc69 wrote: »
    Chelski's football is essentially the same style as Liverpools

    Its funny when a chelski fan tells you,your team play boring football.

    I'd have to agree with you dc69. I think Arsenal and UTD fans would have a solid platform from which to criticise Liverpool's football. Chelsea on the other hand, play some truly turgid stuff, and lost a brilliant manager (albeit on the whim of an oligarch) for that very reason.


  • #49
    dublinario
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 633 ✭✭✭dublinario


    ...the days of Duff and Robben bombing down either wing, terrorising opposition on the way to a comfortable 3 goal win seem a long time ago now. Then again, Chelsea did run UTD very close this season, so they're obviously doing something right.


  • #50
    DerKaiser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 505 ✭✭✭DerKaiser


    Come on! You can't compare pool with Chelsea, we are MUCH better to watch dude! You have physical power and that's it! We have that power and pace and technical nouse, check the league table if you've any questions


  • #51
    dublinario
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 633 ✭✭✭dublinario


    The league table doesn't lie DerKaiser, true enough. I genuinely don't find Chelsea all that great to watch though. I think one of the differences between Liverpool and Chelsea is that, over the last few years, you look at the Liverpool squad and can kind of understand why we haven't been pretty to watch i.e., some awful players.

    Chelsea don't have that excuse, yet their uber-expensive squad has played football that has paled in comparison to UTD and Arsenal. Let's take Liverpool out of the equation for a second DerKaiser: would you accept that Chelsea's football is (on average) nowhere as attractive as UTD or Arsenal's?


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  • #52
    DerKaiser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 505 ✭✭✭DerKaiser


    It's hard to be objective when you are so close to a team,

    I'm of the Alan Hanson school of football appreciation, teams are built from the back, I admit this season there is little spark, we rely on Drogs and Joe Cole (who isn't at his best) to provide the fireworks, Malouda is no replacement for Robben, but then again Robben was fit for about half of his Chelsea career

    Arsenal lack substance for me, pretty to watch when they are tearing Derby apart, but put them against an organised strong team and they fall apart, so no, I think a lot of what is said about Arsenal is bull****, they are not the masters of sexy football in england

    Manyoo play very good football, I will admit, very strong at the back and lethal up front, midfield is a little stodgy, but it hasn't cost them any trophies, so it must be working

    So basically, I do enjoy watching Chelsea play, moreso than the other two, but I will admit this season they have lacked wizardry, it was a stodgy season, but pretty effective


  • #53
    dublinario
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 633 ✭✭✭dublinario


    That's a fair run-down. Arsenal's sometime toothless-ness definitely cost them this season (and other seasons). I admire what they're aspiring to do though.

    A widely held belief about Benitez and Mourhino (still a little early to know Grant's philosophy) is that they don't want to play pretty football. I remember Giles saying he didn't think Mourhino would want Ronaldhino even if he was available, because he wouldn't fit into the team ethic. Similarly, there is that suspicion that Benitez doesn't really have any great desire to play beautiful football. Fergie and Wenger definitely do.


  • #54
    dc69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭dc69


    in my opinion the top teams in England play either attractive or powerful football.

    Powerfull=Liverpool,chelski

    Attractive=Utd,Arsenal

    I dont think any people would disagree with this analogy.
    DerKaiser,I dont see how you can say chelski play attractive football when they clearly dont.You say Liverpool play boring football but yet they and Liverpool play basically the exact same way.Both Hard working teams that imo lack the creative flair of UTD and Arsenal but its the type of style that is usually responsible for dispatching the flair sides of Europe,i.e barcelona etc

    It has been said that Chelski have been this season "grinding out victories",thats exactly what Liverpool did in 2005.


  • #55
    machiavellianme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,474 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    DerKaiser wrote: »
    Stupid? At least I can spell DerKaiser correctly, 3 fluked finals in 4 years, pool fans are blind and totally unobjective to a man, it was a pleasure to knock your arses out of the champions league and do it PROPERLY! No phantom goals, no penalty shoot outs, by scoring goals

    Numpty ****ing moron

    Er, if Riise hadnt headed it into his own goal, Chelsea wouldnt have qualified. Not to mention it should have been a corner at the opposite end of the field to begin with. So technically Chelsea didnt outscore Liverpool and surely Chelsea cant think they deserved all the penalties they got against Liverpool this year?

    If you could spell your name correctly you'd know there should be a space in there.

    Save boards.ie by subscribing: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/



  • #56
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    Read the rules people. If you go calling players/users names, you're going to get banned.

    Mike65 & gucci, you're walking the line

    dc69 warned

    DerKaiser banned.


  • #57
    oobydooby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 697 ✭✭✭oobydooby


    Pool fan here (and Benitez fan too). I think Benitez let himself down with his comments about Drogba. Also if he was playing mind games they did not work. I also think Benitez should desist from mind games because he's not got that nasty streak which you need to make them effective.

    I really like Drogba. I think he's a great leader and a principled player whether for Chelsea or for the Ivory Coast. I'd love to see him at Liverpool but without the diving. He's good enough not to need to dive. Also his personal story is inspiring.


  • #58
    monkey9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,337 ✭✭✭✭monkey9


    Thank **** DerKaiser got banned. His trolling was starting to wreck my head!
    How anyone can say Gerrard is a diver more so than the likes of Drogba. Gerrard goes down if contact is made now and again, Drogba just dives all over the pich, his back arched, his chest out and the look of anguish on his face. Laughable! Delighted he got sent off and fitting that that should be his last action for Chelsea


  • #59
    Villain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,744 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    Any manager that criticises a player from another team for diving is throwing stones in a glass house, every team has divers Beneitz has Gerrard, Grant has Drogba, Fergie has Ronaldo etc etc


  • #60
    One Cold Hand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭One Cold Hand


    DerKaiser wrote: »
    A numpty is an idiot

    I'm sorry guys, pool are a very limited team and you were not convincing in your last three seasons, finals or no finals, under Houllier when you won the plastic treble you were so bloody boring and un technical in fact Liverpool have been pretty rubbish since around 1990, at least when you had your success in the '70s and '80s it was by playing decent football, but you can't tell Liverpool fans that, they don't listen, all they can do is attack the teams above them out of spite and jealousy

    What are you on about? This is COMPLETELY off topic.

    Back OT, I hate Drogba. Everything about him. He pretty much sums up what I hate about football at the minute, all these grown men rolling about the ground like they've been shot the second someone touches them. He is the reason I wanted Utd to win the CL.


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