People not paying their way

Dave! · 19-05-2008 12:52AM

Heh, Richard Wiseman actually did an experiment in England a while ago to test that (it wasn't using the machine though; it was just papers there, and a box beside them), and only 1 person during the experiment actually paid for it!

I'd say if those machines were over here, most people would just take 1... what are you gonna do, sitting on the bus with a stack of 20 papers? Pretty pointless. I'd say they'd just all be taken by some moron kids who want to set fire to them or throw them around the street

flanum · 19-05-2008 02:11AM

whats a luas? is this a dublin thing?

Lockstep · 19-05-2008 11:35AM

DaveMcG wrote: »

Bloody hell, there's always going to be dishonesty for anything that uses the honour system, get over it! Most people pay their way

Has there been some sort of audit done that exposed this fact?

Am I missing something here? Is fare dodging endemic in Irish society or something?

I don't know what % of people avoid paying, but I would have thought it was about the average amount in Europe.

BTW, I've never done it, but I would have thought it would be dead easy to avoid the inspectors... When you see one get on, just get off at the next stop and hop on the next LUAS

This is purely my experience, but on the continent (Belgium, France etc) I saw people seemed to use the honour system far more than in Ireland.
Except Italy of course.

Us Irish people are a thieving bunch of scumbags:D

RedXIV · 19-05-2008 11:37AM

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Us Irish people are a thieving bunch of scumbags:D

Here, Here! *going back to robbing mates pens from his desk:D*

Mark 00 · 19-05-2008 12:06PM

I'm a fairly regular travellar on both lines and what really annoys me about the system is that on the green line which travels to sandyford there's an inspector on the luas I'd say about 50% of the time and the people that travel on it aren't your typical scummy doped-up-pram-pushin ticket dodgers.

But then if ya go on the red line to tallaght there's way less inspectors, but loads of scumbags dodgin fares. (these can be identified by the evacuation of the luas when a rare inspector makes an appearance).

It just seems they have their priorities slightly twisted.

all the stars · 19-05-2008 12:15PM

RATM wrote: »

Who paid for the Luas? The Irish taxpayers (700m euro)
Who profits from the Luas? A private French company called Connex.

Im not advocating dodging Luas fares ( though I will admit Ive done it a couple of times when it was so packed there was no way an inspector was getting through the crowd- sardines dont pay to be in a tin so why should humans=)
but I do reckon there should have been a deal done where we got subsidised fares off the French company up to value of our 700m investment and then full fares when that ran out. Instead they were allowed come in and make profits from day one on an investment where the taxpayer picked up the tab.

fair point - have to say what bothers me aboout the Luas is that its not long since Dublin councils decided to pull up all the tram lines - and then 30 years later we pay to have them put down again? madness...

Also, I live in the middle of nowhere, anybody realise the rest of Ireland has hardly and bus services (unless you can actually get to a bus stop - which is half the problem) or train or anything else!

helimachoptor · 19-05-2008 12:24PM

Got on the luas once without paying but olnly cos I was late for a flight, I have a smart card but it was in the red and only had dollars on me!

Sure enough an inspector got on. Explained to him tat mon-fri i pay with smart card but was rushing for a flight etc. I'm sure he must have recognised me cos he let me away with it. 2 weeks later he checked my smart card and of course I had tagged on.

Slow Motion · 19-05-2008 12:29PM

The luas was paid for by Irish taxpayers, including me, I never get to use it as it is nowhere near me, I live in an area that sees very little in the way of investment of my taxes and has been bypassed for luas, metro and a shitload of other investment that I see beeing squandered in other areas. So to all those scumbags (and yes I do mean anyone who willfully dodges fares regardless of their percieved social status). Bad enough that I had to help pay for your service, why should I have to pay for it's upkeep as well because it's running at a loss because of you? You don't deserve it and should be repeatidly slapped about the head and shoulders with a smelly fish!

Rob_l · 19-05-2008 12:58PM

Slow Motion wrote: »

Bad enough that I had to help pay for your service, why should I have to pay for it's upkeep as well because it's running at a loss because of you? !

i dont think its running at a loss, I thought it exceeded expected usuage

Slow Motion · 19-05-2008 01:01PM

Rob_l wrote: »

i dont think its running at a loss, I thought it exceeded expected usuage

Fair enough, but it will still require money for expansion / maintenance / upkeep! I would rather see it come from the users pockets than my tax euros!

Tigger · 19-05-2008 01:03PM

RedXIV wrote: »

I got in trouble doing this once

how?

Rob_l · 19-05-2008 01:06PM

Slow Motion wrote: »

Fair enough, but it will still require money for expansion / maintenance / upkeep! I would rather see it come from the users pockets than my tax euros!

Yeah and then I could take that approach about the hospitals I never use or the motorways i dont drive on or country routes i will never drive its a national service and as such should be paid in part through tax.

Slow Motion · 19-05-2008 01:15PM

Rob_l wrote: »

Yeah and then I could take that approach about the hospitals I never use or the motorways i dont drive on or country routes i will never drive its a national service and as such should be paid in part through tax.

I suspect you are being intentionally disengenous, you are talking about national services, the luas is a service specific to the community in which it operates and while I had minimal objection to the use of my taxes in its initial setting up, I do have an issue with them being used on it's upkeep going forward when it's users (some) basically give two fingers to the taxpayers by not contributing and dodging fares!

Rob_l · 19-05-2008 01:24PM

Slow Motion wrote: »

I suspect you are being intentionally disengenous, you are talking about national services, the luas is a service specific to the community in which it operates and while I had minimal objection to the use of my taxes in its initial setting up, I do have an issue with them being used on it's upkeep going forward when it's users (some) basically give two fingers to the taxpayers by not contributing and dodging fares!

Well yes there was an element of that, but every state funded service will always suffer from a minority abusing it, this is not isolated to just the luas which while perhaps being a regional service is still a state sponsored regional service setup to deal with the situation of overcrowding on roads in dublin and its use does not just have an impact on those who use the service but all those who benefit from less cars on the overpacked roads as a resulty of people using this service. this is why i think it is fully justified is recieving state sponsorship

MarkR · 19-05-2008 02:20PM

Some people are ignorant, thieving bastards. They'll take anything if they think they can get away with it.

hdunne · 19-05-2008 02:26PM

oh come on now, we were promised a state of the art system and got a too short, too slow, non connecting piece of sh!t. You would be better of concentrating on something a bit more important that this. If you pay your fair everyday good for you (pity you obviously coz luas is a pain in the ar,se) don't worry about anyone else.

MarkR · 19-05-2008 02:47PM

Rationalise your petty theft to someone else. Shoo miscreant!

moses's whore · 19-05-2008 03:32PM

screw the lot of yous

I don't pay tax or fares

I like it that way

our society sucks

we'd all be better off dead

go and ****e the lot of you :mad:

Degsy · 19-05-2008 03:34PM

moses's whore wrote: »

screw the lot of yous

I don't pay tax or fares

I like it that way

our society sucks

we'd all be better off dead

go and ****e the lot of you :mad:

Your ideas are intruiging to me,where can is subscribe to your newsletter?

Rb · 19-05-2008 03:37PM

moses's whore wrote: »

screw the lot of yous

I don't pay tax or fares

I like it that way

our society sucks

we'd all be better off dead

go and ****e the lot of you :mad:

So why don't you go and "quit life" if it sucks so bad?

Kinetic^ · 19-05-2008 03:38PM

I've paid for my fare pretty much all of my time spent on the Luas, apart from my short trip from the Odeon to St. Stephens Green. Too langers to walk!!! :pac:

Rb · 19-05-2008 03:43PM

Stekelly wrote: »

It's a pointless thing that people just use to whinge and have an excuse for not doing something they should be done.

How many people is there in the Gealtacht areas that cant speak English? Now how about the same question for Dublin. People need to stop spending their energy looking for ways to avoid paying their way.

If sombody was giving away a free car to anyone that could read a page of an astro physics textbook in English I bet thered be no problems with people refusing to take part because it's not in Irish.

Very good post, fully agree.

Have never not paid my bus/Luas fare. If a couple of € keeps the Luas running as well as it does, then I've no complaints in paying it. It's a great service, the trams are clean, on time etc. so let's keep it that way. The less tax revenue that has to be piled into it to maintain it the better as it can be used elsewhere.

Irish Halo · 19-05-2008 03:56PM

Veolia provide goods/a service for a fee if you do not think said goods/service is worth the fee then don't take the goods or use the service or is fare dodging/pretending to protest against something so you don't have to pay for it the new black?

Always pay my way ESPECIALLY on public transport, it doesn't get better magically it needs money although the Luas seems OK whenever I've used it but don't use it much, I live in a different country and when I am home having no need to go to where the Luas does mostly

llort · 19-05-2008 04:33PM

anyone who pays good money for what they could have got for free is a mug, simple as.

music, games, DVD's, luas/train fares, tax, insurance, NCT ect.
fúck it all, and fúck the government as well, they can go around robbing and fúcking the public over for as long as they want, so why cant i?

i laugh at all these fools queing for their little luas tickets like tossers, every morning and every evening, even missing trams for the sake of what?
bending over for the government and their main shareholder....big business's and multi-nationals.

iv not paid for a ticket ever, used it twice daily and only been confronted a handful of times with absolutely no repercussions.

even if you want to pay the fine, once you average being caught once a forthnigh, youre still up money.

fúck them

19-05-2008 05:33PM

anyone who pays good money for what they could have got for free is a mug, simple as.

Well, some of us prefer to contribute to society than be parasites. You're more than happy to use what we've all paid for - what if everyone thought like you? It's as well you were born here where misinformed, lazy, parasite scum can avail of hospitals and everything else while mocking those who pay for them and not somewhere you're actually expected to contribute something or be left to rot.

Zzippy · 19-05-2008 05:43PM

moses's whore wrote: »

screw the lot of yous

I don't pay tax or fares

I like it that way

our society sucks

we'd all be better off dead

go and ****e the lot of you :mad:

Emo? Prob never had a job so no opportunity to pay tax. Don't worry, your time will come...

llort wrote: »

anyone who pays good money for what they could have got for free is a mug, simple as.

music, games, DVD's, luas/train fares, tax, insurance, NCT ect.
fúck it all, and fúck the government as well, they can go around robbing and fúcking the public over for as long as they want, so why cant i?

i laugh at all these fools queing for their little luas tickets like tossers, every morning and every evening, even missing trams for the sake of what?
bending over for the government and their main shareholder....big business's and multi-nationals.

iv not paid for a ticket ever, used it twice daily and only been confronted a handful of times with absolutely no repercussions.

even if you want to pay the fine, once you average being caught once a forthnigh, youre still up money.

fúck them

As Izzy put it so well, parasite is the best word to describe people like you.

Dinter · 19-05-2008 05:51PM

llort wrote: »

anyone who pays good money for what they could have got for free is a mug, simple as.

music, games, DVD's, luas/train fares, tax, insurance, NCT ect.
fúck it all, and fúck the government as well, they can go around robbing and fúcking the public over for as long as they want, so why cant i?

i laugh at all these fools queing for their little luas tickets like tossers, every morning and every evening, even missing trams for the sake of what?
bending over for the government and their main shareholder....big business's and multi-nationals.

iv not paid for a ticket ever, used it twice daily and only been confronted a handful of times with absolutely no repercussions.

even if you want to pay the fine, once you average being caught once a forthnigh, youre still up money.

fúck them

Wow, now I know what it must have been like to be at one of Daniel O'Connell's mass meetings.

swingking · 19-05-2008 06:23PM

llort wrote: »

anyone who pays good money for what they could have got for free is a mug, simple as.

music, games, DVD's, luas/train fares, tax, insurance, NCT ect.
fúck it all, and fúck the government as well, they can go around robbing and fúcking the public over for as long as they want, so why cant i?

i laugh at all these fools queing for their little luas tickets like tossers, every morning and every evening, even missing trams for the sake of what?
bending over for the government and their main shareholder....big business's and multi-nationals.

iv not paid for a ticket ever, used it twice daily and only been confronted a handful of times with absolutely no repercussions.

even if you want to pay the fine, once you average being caught once a forthnigh, youre still up money.

fúck them

Do you pay for anything?

cause you sound like a leech to me who takes everything and doesn't contribute.

Frank the Manc · 19-05-2008 06:56PM

.

MCMLXXXIII · 19-05-2008 06:56PM

Rob_l wrote: »

Well yes there was an element of that, but every state funded service will always suffer from a minority abusing it ... this is why i think it is fully justified is recieving state sponsorship

Personally, I have no problem with "Public" transportation receiving state sponsorship. However, even though the Luas is open for public use, it is a private company. I do not think the state should fund private companies. This goes for more than the Luas, but I just disagree with private companies profiting off the government.

MarkR wrote: »

Some people are ignorant, thieving bastards. They'll take anything if they think they can get away with it.

Yes. But should we blame the greedy people, or should we blame those that allow it to happen?

llort wrote: »

anyone who pays good money for what they could have got for free is a mug, simple as.

music, games, DVD's, luas/train fares, tax, insurance, NCT ect.
fúck it all, and fúck the government as well, they can go around robbing and fúcking the public over for as long as they want, so why cant i?

i laugh at all these fools queing for their little luas tickets like tossers, every morning and every evening, even missing trams for the sake of what?
bending over for the government and their main shareholder....big business's and multi-nationals.

iv not paid for a ticket ever, used it twice daily and only been confronted a handful of times with absolutely no repercussions.

even if you want to pay the fine, once you average being caught once a forthnigh, youre still up money.

fúck them

You can go around ranting all you want, but let me ask you this: when was the last time you were directly F-ed? And I don't mean by the government, or in a large group. When was it you, personally, targeted?
Also, even if you were a target, shame on you for not sticking up for yourself.
And by sticking up for yourself, I don't mean perpetuating the cycle, I mean protecting yourself so it doesn't happen again.
Eventually, the Luas is going to figure out that it is getting screwed, so they will raise fare rates to pay for a new gate/security system with officers to make sure no one is sneaking through. Then everyone gets screwed, including yourself, because instead of paying the normal fare, you will pay a more expensive fare for the same thing.

People not paying their way

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