Pool/Arse: Who had the better season?

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 07-05-2008 06:07PM

I'd say Arsenal did based solely on the fact that they managed to sustain a title challenge for much of the season and far exceeded all the doom and gloom predictions everyone made at the start of the season. Much of a muchness though since neither won anything.

romperstomper wrote: »

(sendeross wouldn't make the wigan 22).

Sorry but this is just starting to annoy me a bit,
While i agree that he isn't cut out to be playing for the Arsenal first team, especially against the big teams and players. People really have been far too insulting of Senderos just because of the liverpool CL game, which was a disaster granted but doesn't reflect on the solid performances he put in while Kolo was away at the ANC. Not to mention being part of the defence which holds the record in the CL for the longest time not conceding a goal and the Swiss defence that conceded the least amount of goals at the last world cup(in fact the only goals conceded were from a penalty shoot out).

IMO he is a very good defender who's let down by his liability to sometimes make stupid mistakes and more importantly his very brittle mentality which doesnt allow him to recover quickly from these errors.

CivilServant · 07-05-2008 06:36PM

herbieflowers wrote: »

Everyone wrote off Arsenal befoe the start of the season, especially after their lack of transfer activity and selling their best player. No-one could've predicted that they'd mount any sort of a title challenge.

As for Liverpool - signing of Torres has improved them immensely, but for me it was same old story: good CL run and decent in the league but still lacking somewhat. But they're getting there.

Liverpool have gone backward. In previous seasons we managed 4th and latter stages of the CL, this year we managed the same but with a world class striker. Take that world class striker away and what are you left with, a bunch of talentless no hopers and Gerrard.

Arsenal had the better season and could easily have won the premiership.

We are not getting there, not by a long shot. We've been trying to get there for the past 15 or so years since the inception of the Premiership, never once really challenging for the title. We need a massive shakeup and hopefully this season will get it, by sacking Rafa and bringing in someone like Mourinho who knows how to get results.

redzerdrog · 07-05-2008 06:56PM

not much in it but i voted for arsenal

liverpool fan btw

LuckyCharms · 07-05-2008 07:36PM

Arsenal defo had the better season, they just sold Henry, people had no expectations while pool spent heavily and had acquired torres and they were expected to be contenders.

Arsenal contended for the title but fell away due to squad depth and the cl games between them coulda gone either way.Even tho pool got further in cl , they didnt go far enough to suggest they had a better season then Arsenal

mike65 · 07-05-2008 07:43PM

CivilServant wrote: »

Take that world class striker away and what are you left with, a bunch of talentless no hopers and Gerrard.

Yeah right. :rolleyes: (<- WFT is that?)

Mike.

Dont be at yourself · 08-05-2008 03:33AM

Second place is first loser. I don't think either sets of fans would be happy with their seasons.

As a Liverpool fan, I was happy with the impact of Torres, our CL run and the effectiveness of our 4-2-3-1. I was disappointed with our league results against Man Yoo/Chelsea/Arsenal, the off the pitch nonsense and our failure to sustain early momentum.

Xavi6 · 08-05-2008 03:57AM

In simple terms for me, Arsenal lost a superstar (Henry) and Liverpool gained one (Torres) so the expectation for Arsenal to perform wasn't there considering they lost their talisman. Based on what they did without him, Arsenal had a better year.

Mr Alan · 08-05-2008 08:22AM

CivilServant wrote: »

Liverpool have gone backward.

Are you just making stuff up to annoy me this early in the morning?

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Liverpool 2006/2007 season:
W: 20
8
L: 10

F: 57
A: 27
GD: +30

PTS: 68

Liverpool 2007/2008 season with 1 game to go:
W: 20
13
L: 4

F: 65
A: 26
GD: +39

PTS: 73

kida · 08-05-2008 09:27AM

Progress is measured relative to the teams around you, given that Liverpool have digressed since last season regardless of how their own points has gone up/down.
Guaranteed that if Pool had finished second on less points than last season they would be claiming progress.

Key Points
4th vs 3rd
Cl Semi vs Final
Missing Link from last season signed and worked out -> implies rest of team underperformed

Mr Alan · 08-05-2008 09:28AM

thanks for clearing up what entails making progress.

i guess your right we are a worse team than this time last year.

apologies.

jesus_thats_gre · 08-05-2008 04:06PM

kida wrote: »

Progress is measured relative to the teams around you, given that Liverpool have digressed since last season regardless of how their own points has gone up/down.
Guaranteed that if Pool had finished second on less points than last season they would be claiming progress.

Key Points
4th vs 3rd
Cl Semi vs Final
Missing Link from last season signed and worked out -> implies rest of team underperformed

Perception is an amazing thing

End of season 2006/2007:

	Team:		Points:
1st	Man United	89
2nd	Chelsea		83
3rd	Liverpool	68
4th	Arsenal		68

End of season 2007/2008:

	Team:		Points:
1st	Man United	84
2nd	Chelsea		84
3rd	Arsenal		80
4th	Liverpool	73

There have been multiple statements that Liverpool have taken a step backward this season but every single one of them can be dismissed by the use of the simplest of facts - the league table.

jesus_thats_gre · 08-05-2008 04:14PM

CivilServant wrote: »

Liverpool have gone backward. In previous seasons we managed 4th and latter stages of the CL, this year we managed the same but with a world class striker. Take that world class striker away and what are you left with, a bunch of talentless no hopers and Gerrard.

Torres and Gerard scored the same percentage of Liverpool's goals as Fabregas and Adebayor did for Arsenal and less than Tevez and Ronaldo did for United.

Chelsea are the only team of the top 4 that are not over dependent on 2 or 3 players for an extremely large percentage of their goals.

CivilServant wrote: »

Arsenal had the better season and could easily have won the premiership.

They looked like they could have won the PL but in reality, 80% of the fixtures that they drew, Liverpool drew the exact same ones. The only difference being that Liverpool played those fixtures early on the season whereas Arsenal played those fixtures in the final 1/4 of the season.

I know it is an inconvenient fact and it is easier to ignore..

CivilServant wrote: »

We are not getting there, not by a long shot. We've been trying to get there for the past 15 or so years since the inception of the Premiership, never once really challenging for the title. We need a massive shakeup and hopefully this season will get it, by sacking Rafa and bringing in someone like Mourinho who knows how to get results.

Complete and utter nonsense.

Mr.Nice Guy · 08-05-2008 04:38PM

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »
Perception is an amazing thing

End of season 2006/2007:
	Team:		Points:
1st	Man United	89
2nd	Chelsea		83
3rd	Liverpool	68
4th	Arsenal		68
End of season 2007/2008:
	Team:		Points:
1st	Man United	84
2nd	Chelsea		84
3rd	Arsenal		80
4th	Liverpool	73
There have been multiple statements that Liverpool have taken a step backward this season but every single one of them can be dismissed by the use of the simplest of facts - the league table.

The league tables you highlight show Liverpool finishing third last season and about to finish fourth this season.

Surely that suggests they have taken a step backwards?

The fact they have more points is irrelevant since the league has been more competitive this season.

kida wrote:

Progress is measured relative to the teams around you

Bingo.

event · 08-05-2008 04:39PM

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »
Perception is an amazing thing

End of season 2006/2007:
	Team:		Points:
1st	Man United	89
2nd	Chelsea		83
3rd	Liverpool	68
4th	Arsenal		68
End of season 2007/2008:
	Team:		Points:
1st	Man United	84
2nd	Chelsea		84
3rd	Arsenal		80
4th	Liverpool	73
There have been multiple statements that Liverpool have taken a step backward this season but every single one of them can be dismissed by the use of the simplest of facts - the league table.

i dont get what you're trying to say there

i know you will point to points totals, but i would be more inclined to look at league position.

last year ye finished 3rd and got to the final of the champions league.

this year ye will finish 4th and got to the semi finals of the champions league

i can see what pool fans mean, in that i think they play better football now, but at the end of the day you can mention points tallys and how many more losses ye had last year, but you finished in a higher position last year.

CivilServant · 08-05-2008 04:42PM

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Complete and utter nonsense.

This is completely what I expected to hear from pool fans. To put the argument down to waffle and to blindside me with facts and figures.

Who of the top so called 4 teams have not won the premiership... ever? Is that progress to you? Squabbling about third or fourth and making it sound like a worthwhile endeavour is quite sad overall, yet this is the reality the fans have had to put up with year after year. Pretty soon fans won't be able to sleep at night with the thought of Man Utd closing in on their 17th title and 18th title judging by many comments on another thread.

Fact is the club needs a major change to get from 3rd/4th to 1st and that's a change in mentality from the fans, the manager, all the staff at Liverpool. It seems like we may get something this year if Parry leaves, a new manager is brought in and a lot of new players.

Mr.Nice Guy · 08-05-2008 04:47PM

I'm not so sure that Liverpool have necessarily 'gone backwards' but they certainly haven't made any progress from what I can see. I think that's their main problem. Last season there was little between them and Arsenal yet Arsenal have made big strides this season and at one stage looked to be in with a serious chance of winning the league.

United, Chelsea and Arsenal improved while Liverpool had to battle with Everton for fourth spot. I'm surprised Liverpool fans are willing to settle for that to be honest and I think Benitez will continue to prioritise the CL over the Premiership.

_blank_ · 08-05-2008 04:48PM

Clearly, if Liverpool had a good season finishing a place lower than they did last season, then Arsenal's improvement of one place in the league is an absolute disaster for them.

Wenger OUT!

Prufrock · 08-05-2008 05:00PM

Arsenal had a better season. No question.

dceire · 08-05-2008 05:14PM

Arsenal because they've progressed more than Liverpool have from last season & actually looked like they would put up a good title challenge this season but just ran out of steam at the end and were unlucky as well.

If you look at the manner in which they lost against Chelsea, Man Utd and in particular Liverpool in the champions league, they can feel a little unlucky!

jesus_thats_gre · 08-05-2008 06:10PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The league tables you highlight show Liverpool finishing third last season and about to finish fourth this season.

Surely that suggests they have taken a step backwards?

The fact they have more points is irrelevant since the league has been more competitive this season.

Bingo.

event wrote: »

i dont get what you're trying to say there

i know you will point to points totals, but i would be more inclined to look at league position.

last year ye finished 3rd and got to the final of the champions league.

this year ye will finish 4th and got to the semi finals of the champions league

i can see what pool fans mean, in that i think they play better football now, but at the end of the day you can mention points tallys and how many more losses ye had last year, but you finished in a higher position last year.

My point is that Liverpool did not take a step back. Arsenal just took a massive step forward.

jank · 08-05-2008 06:40PM

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

My point is that Liverpool did not take a step back. Arsenal just took a massive step forward.

But isnt that football at the highest level?

If you stand still you fall behind because others will overtake you.
You may feel that liverpool may have taken a step forward with the purchase of torres and they have IMO, but if others take 2,3 steps forward then it still leaves you way behind the top title contenders. So i real terms no gain has been made what so ever. I wouldnt go as far as saying they took a step back though

Arsenal have improved and will again next season. United look like the one to beat next year and with Romans billions chelsea will be in there. I just cant see liverpool win the title next year either and the odds from the bookies reflect that.

jesus_thats_gre · 09-05-2008 01:59AM

jank wrote: »

But isnt that football at the highest level?

If you stand still you fall behind because others will overtake you.
You may feel that liverpool may have taken a step forward with the purchase of torres and they have IMO, but if others take 2,3 steps forward then it still leaves you way behind the top title contenders. So i real terms no gain has been made what so ever. I wouldnt go as far as saying they took a step back though

Arsenal have improved and will again next season. United look like the one to beat next year and with Romans billions chelsea will be in there. I just cant see liverpool win the title next year either and the odds from the bookies reflect that.

Arsenal took 2 or 3 steps forwards. Chelsea progressed slightly but were playing well below what they were capable off. United are virtually the same as they were. Liverpool took a small step forward.

I have no issue in folk saying that Arsenal had a better season or play better football. It would be silly to think otherwise. What I do have a problem with is people saying that Liverpool took a step backwards when they obviously didn't.

The points I am making about the fixtures that Liverpool and Arsenal drew just make the argument of whether Arsenal had a better season purely because they there still in it near the end open to a bit more discussion.

LuckyLloyd · 09-05-2008 02:11AM

I think the interesting thing is that all of the top four widened the gap that exists with the rest of the league. AGAIN.

Galvasean · 09-05-2008 01:16PM

event wrote: »

i dont get what you're trying to say there

i know you will point to points totals, but i would be more inclined to look at league position.

Aye, id rather win the league with a relqtively low points total than come second with a relatively high points total.

Pool/Arse: Who had the better season?

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