9 Gardai 3 squad cars for revenge posse beats up man, 4 face dismissal

lostexpectation · 05-05-2008 11:04PM #1

http://www.tribune.ie/article.tvt?_scope=Tribune/News/Home%20News&id=87390&SUBCAT=Tribune/News

A 10-week investigation by the Garda Siochana Ombudsman Commission (GSOC) has almost been completed and it is likely that Garda Commissioner Facthna Murphy will dismiss the officers when he receives the GSOC report.
The alleged incident occurred 24 hours after a garda, walking home after a night out, became involved in an altercation with a 19-yearold member of the public. The garda knew the identity of the individual from the course of his duties and words were exchanged which led to a fight.

A number of punches were exchanged and the 19-year-old got the better of the garda before both parties separated.

The garda reported for duty the following day after the incident and it is alleged that he rounded up eight colleagues who drove to the man's house in three squad cars.

The gardai are then said to have forced their way into the individual's house without a search warrant and the man alleged he was assaulted.

original news report
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/four-gardai-suspended-after-alleged-assault-of-19yearold-1298016.html

this sounds a total outside of duties revenge posse, more judge dredd policing from the gardai.

how many gardai and cars would there be in one of the those city centre stations?

we have to wait to see if anyone actually does get fired. coming after the settlement with the 3 other people assaulted by pearse station guards.

would you feel safe around any gardai.

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 05-05-2008 11:37PM

If it's true, I hope they do get fired. It's not on and there's no way it should be tolerated if the gardai are to retain any respect.

arcalzo · 06-05-2008 12:02AM

Sean K and lostexpectation, your IP address is being tracked, and your profiles have been submitted for analysis. The garda siochana is the world's greatest police force, and if anyone thinks otherwise...

mike65 · 06-05-2008 09:50AM

Heh! arcalzo - also posting on indymedia.

Mike.

afatbollix · 06-05-2008 09:56AM

that was a bit stupid!!!

Liam Byrne · 06-05-2008 12:50PM

Definitely not the best course of action by the gardai, but am I the only one who thinks that there's not enough emphasis on

1) The garda knew the identity of the individual from the course of his duties
2) it is alleged that he rounded up eight colleagues who drove to the man's house in three squad cars.
3) The gardai are then said to have forced their way into the individual's house without a search warrant and
4) the man alleged he was assaulted.

While I 100% agree that the integrity of the Gardai needs to be protected and any dodgy ones weeded out, do we accept the word of someone - as the phrase goes - "known to Gardai" and (as stated above) "A number of punches were exchanged and the 19-year-old got the better of the garda before both parties separated"

Strange phrasing from a supposed broadsheet there, don't you think ? Sounds very diluted to me......did he assault the Garda ? If so, why didn't the paper just say so ?

If someone throws punches at a Garda then they deserve some punishment at least....why aren't they up for assault ?

Plus, I don't think I'd put much weight behind the allegations or claims without some SERIOUS proof......I think the papers should have waited until the enquiry was complete, or at least put equal weight behind the fact that a Garda was assaulted as the - potentially unfounded - allegations by someone who obviously has a score to settle.

seamus · 06-05-2008 01:05PM

I have trouble believing that 8 Gardai would all be stupid enough to jump into squad cars and go there and forcibly enter the home and beat the guy up - especially if the Garda who'd been fighting was out drinking. It just doesn't fly. If they were going to do that, they would have organised something outside of working hours and in anonymous vehicles.

Many scumbags are well-known for sticking together on this, and the entire family will claim that half of Dublin's Gardai arrived in ERU vans and knocked down their front wall, and their stories will all be spot-on.

The tribune's write-up says it a bit better. It looks more like they all arrived down to be intimidating to the guy, but then a couple of the Gardai burst into the house and gave your man a hiding, while the rest of them realised what was happening and left. As I say, I would be surprised if all 8 of them in a group would be dumb enough to act like this in such a public way.
I guess we'll need to see the official report to know exactly what happened.

Executive Steve · 06-05-2008 01:14PM

seamus wrote: »

I have trouble believing that 8 Gardai would all be stupid enough to jump into squad cars and go there and forcibly enter the home and beat the guy up - especially if the Garda who'd been fighting was out drinking. It just doesn't fly. If they were going to do that, they would have organised something outside of working hours and in anonymous vehicles.

have you seen the application tests to get into the gardai?

it's not like you need to be an intellectual giant...

nhughes100 · 06-05-2008 01:19PM

Very believable and the tip of the iceberg imo.

kaizersoze1980 · 06-05-2008 01:22PM

[cm]tyranny wrote: »

have you seen the application tests to get into the gardai?

it's not like you need to be an intellectual giant...

Have you seen the aptitude test? How are you qualified to comment on it? Or are you basing it on hearsay?

You also need to go through an extensive interview process after passing the aptitude test, it's not like once you pass the test you're in :rolleyes:

kaizersoze1980 · 06-05-2008 01:23PM

nhughes100 wrote: »

Very believable and the tip of the iceberg imo.

what are you basing this opinion on?

06-05-2008 01:30PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If someone throws punches at a Garda then they deserve some punishment at least....why aren't they up for assault ?

If by 'up for assault' you mean prosecuted, it should be noted that the Gardai are not being prosecuted either. They are the subject of disciplinary proceedings within the Gardai. And of course they rely on a much lower standard of proof than that required to secure a conviction.

nhughes100 · 06-05-2008 01:40PM

kaizersoze1980 wrote: »

what are you basing this opinion on?

The ever increasing stories about Garda corruption coming to light in the media and the nod nod wink wink way the Gardai operate.

humanji · 06-05-2008 01:55PM

So, hearsay and conjecture then? I guess those are kinds of evidence...

nhughes100 · 06-05-2008 01:59PM

I think there's plenty of evidence in this case thats neither hearsay of conjecture, the framing case in Donegal and the ever increasing number of people knocked down and killed by off and on duty Gardai that never quite seem to add up.

RedPlanet · 06-05-2008 02:01PM

seamus wrote: »

Many scumbags are well-known for sticking together on this, and the entire family will claim that half of Dublin's Gardai arrived in ERU vans and knocked down their front wall, and their stories will all be spot-on.

Jeez that sounds just like the Gardai.
Rehearsing their stories, covering their badges, conveniently not remembering events that may be incriminating towards their fellow Gards.
Probably refusing to take statements, loosing the inconvenient statements, doctoring other statements, perjuring themselves under oath, etc, etc.
I'm just trying to figure out which side is worse, scumbags or the Gards.
I mean I can avoid scumbags but sometimes you actually need the Gards.

06-05-2008 02:03PM

nhughes100 wrote: »

the ever increasing number of people knocked down and killed by off and on duty Gardai that never quite seem to add up.

Perhaps the Gardai are involved in high speed chases more than your average civilian?

Can't say I've heard of anything 'nod nod wink wink' about those tragedies. I'm sure that if there was anything dodgy about them the families of anyone killed or injured would demand some investigation.

seamus · 06-05-2008 02:04PM

Difference is that it's a minority of Gardai doing these things who are slowly being exposed and weeded out. The Gardai of today aren't the same force as the one of the 80's - they're not afraid of standing up and exposing corruption in their own force.

Dirk Gently · 06-05-2008 04:03PM

If it did happen it's more likely to have been unmarked cars and plain clothes. If it was actually 3 marked squad cars then they should be jailed for life for stupidity, perhaps some time off for beating up the scummer.

Macroom Man · 06-05-2008 04:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps the Gardai are involved in high speed chases more than your average civilian?

Can't say I've heard of anything 'nod nod wink wink' about those tragedies. I'm sure that if there was anything dodgy about them the families of anyone killed or injured would demand some investigation.

Like the enquiry into the killing of Brian Rossiter? Held behind closed doors and the final report not published.

06-05-2008 04:35PM

Macroom Man wrote: »

Like the enquiry into the killing of Brian Rossiter? Held behind closed doors and the final report not published.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm.

Brian Rossiter died in a cell. It had nothing to do with some nod nod attitude to dodgy driving by gardai.

But it does illustrate my argument that, if there is some dodgy cover up involving gardai and driving, I would have thought the families would look for justice, just like the Rossiters.

purple'n'gold · 06-05-2008 04:57PM

We all know that you don’t have to have the intellect of a brain surgeon to be a Guard. But this is unbelievable. The stupidity is breath taking. I fervently hope they are dismissed ASAP. What do they think this is, the Wild West?

murphaph · 06-05-2008 06:10PM

This story doesn't surprise me tbh. I doubt all 8 barged in and kicked the sh!te out of this lad (who may be no angel for all we know but that is totally irrelevant) but having said that I have had enough less than satisfactory dealings with An Garda Siochana of late that I am not confident in them as a force.

The Guards are feared by law abiding decent people and not feared by scumbags. Something is wrong with this and it needs sorting.

oscarBravo · 06-05-2008 08:04PM

murphaph wrote: »

The Guards are feared by law abiding decent people...

Not by all law-abiding decent people, no.

murphaph · 06-05-2008 08:33PM

well, I thought it was obvious I was making a generalisation. Of course there are exceptions everywhere but I maintain that most decent people fear the Gardai moreso than respect them.

oscarBravo · 06-05-2008 10:11PM

Not in my experience. Most people I know respect most Gardaí. Some people I know have had bad experiences.

I wouldn't feel qualified to say what most people think, and I'm not sure how you do.

nhughes100 · 07-05-2008 07:41AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps the Gardai are involved in high speed chases more than your average civilian?

Can't say I've heard of anything 'nod nod wink wink' about those tragedies. I'm sure that if there was anything dodgy about them the families of anyone killed or injured would demand some investigation.

There are two recent incidents I can think off with Gardai that resulted in two civilian deaths. One in Tallaght where a squad car hit a guy on New years eve I think, the Garda car was not in pursuit of anyone and had no siren/lights on. The other in which an off duty Garda hit a guy in Lucan in the early hours of the morning. The Garda headed off and they created some cover story about the guy being so drunk he passed out in the middle of the road. There was a prime time special about it where witnesses state that the guy that was killed walked a female friend home just minutes before he "passed out from being so drunk"

I believe both cases are under investigation by the Garda Ombudsman. I'm sure if you ask the families they would believe there is something dodgy going on.

I believe all these to be the tip of the iceberg and the stories that slip through the net of secrecy. Look at all the banking and health scandels, they all start off as little stories like oh we only lost two laptops, sorry 10 laptops and we lost them 6 months ago, there was no unsecured data on them, oh wait a minute there was etc etc. Due to the nature of police work the stories will be harder to come by and are more easily covered up but anyone who thinks that the Gardai are a transparent, open and trustworthy professional police force should look under their pillow the next time they lose a tooth.

seamus · 07-05-2008 08:45AM

nhughes100 wrote: »

I believe both cases are under investigation by the Garda Ombudsman. I'm sure if you ask the families they would believe there is something dodgy going on.

No doubt. If you look at any thread talking about the Gardai on boards, you'll see that there are a number of people with a particular chip on their shoulder about the Gardai. This is an Irish thing, passed down to some people from the older generations, when the Gardai were seen as tools of the British.

There are two sides to every story - for every Garda who bends the truth and claims that someone was passed out on the road, there are four of five people who will "claim" that they were with that person on the night and he hadn't even been drinking. There are people out there who will make up stuff, purely to cause **** for the Gardai.

I'm not denying that in some cases, Gardai do cover each other's asses, but to claim that the entire force is just an old boy's club of backscratchers (like the hospital consultants) is completely wrong.

If we were in a corrupt police state, none of these stories would even be reported in the media, let alone investigated. The primary reason why it appears that the facts were initially covered up by the Gardai, is because modern journalists are lazy bastards, who will print almost anything in the rush to go to press. So, "Maybe he was lying in the road", is twisted into, "Onlookers claim that the man had collapsed into the road...". Then when the truth comes out, it looks like somebody was lying. Most of the time, it's the journalists who are lying.

nhughes100 · 07-05-2008 01:08PM

Morris Report anyone?

humanji · 07-05-2008 02:51PM

Probably a bad example to pick, since it's showing that the system works. Those in the wrong have been found.

nhughes100 · 07-05-2008 02:58PM

So the Gardai are now clean? Give me a break. Tip of the iceberg.

9 Gardai 3 squad cars for revenge posse beats up man, 4 face dismissal

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