Man Utd vs. Barca (2nd leg)

PHB · 30-04-2008 11:43AM

Barca (Barca fans)

I never claimed he wasn't. I just said in terms of end product, Ronaldo created more. And he also played out of position. He did a job for the team last night, I don't see how anyone couldn't see that.

Also the idea that Carrick was a waste of money, jesus christ what the hell game were you watching? He defended ****ing fantastically, like really impressively, and got the ball up the pitch to a United player pretty much every time. Also played a lovely through ball which Ronaldo ran onto and led to Parks chance.

I still can't get over the fact we won that game without Rooney. We've always been **** without him, and Ronaldo and Tevez did their best to give us a bit of attacking shape and we ended up creating 3-4 real goal scoring chances.

_blank_ · 30-04-2008 11:46AM

PHB wrote: »

I never claimed he wasn't. I just said in terms of end product, Ronaldo created more.

Also the idea that Carrick was a waste of money, jesus christ what the hell game were you watching? He defended ****ing fantastically, like really impressively, and got the ball up the pitch to a United player pretty much every time. Also played a lovely through ball which Ronaldo ran onto and led to Parks chance.

Would you be in agreement that United don't deserve to be in the final, by virtue of the fact that they grunted through both legs, played a defensive game and only scored one goal in the two games.

Would a Barca team that tried to play nice, flowing football would be more deserving of a final berth?

If not, then do you still contend that should Chelsea win the league, they won't deserve it?

PHB · 30-04-2008 11:54AM

Barca (Barca fans)

DesF wrote: »

Would you be in agreement that United don't deserve to be in the final, by virtue of the fact that they grunted through both legs, played a defensive game and only scored one goal in the two games.

Would a Barca team that tried to play nice, flowing football would be more deserving of a final berth?

Well imo, the reason we weren't able to play good attacking football last night was because Rooney was out. Without him we're a shadow of ourselves attacking wise. That Ronaldo is out 2nd best striker says it all to be honest.

I hate Fergie's away European tactics, I really do. I hate not playing the way we can. Why restrain the best attack in the world? But last night after Rooney and Vidic were out, I couldn't fault them one bit. We had no right to win that game, and I think everyone thought that Barca were favorites when they saw that team sheet.

I still maintain though that we intended to attack Barca away, it's just we played utterly ****. The intent was there though, it's just that Yaya Toure had such an amazing game we couldn't get anything going.

Also, last night we did show attacking intent and imo were the better team going forward, as we created some other good chances, Nani being the most obvious. We played inbteween defensive and offensive football, and that's best shown by Evra, who a couple of times was willing to bomb forward leaving Messi unmarked (indeed all those great runs that Messi made tended to be when Evra had over-committed himself)
That said, without Vidic or defence is very dodgy when dealing with breaks. Brown played well lsat night, but imo he's still a bit dodgy at times. Our midfielders had to sit deep to cover up our defensive weakness. Hargreaves had to play at RB.
Hargreaves being able to play in midfield would have allowed us much more possession, but you gotta take these injuries as they come and come through them with big team performances.

My reasons for believing that Chelsea don't deserve to win the league aren't to do with how they play football. It's to do with how they've managed to get to where they are in terms of points tally. It's not due to defensive football, it's due to a lot of good fortune imo.

_blank_ · 30-04-2008 11:56AM

Are you, in fact, Bertie Ahern?

PHB · 30-04-2008 12:04PM

Barca (Barca fans)

DesF wrote: »

Are you, in fact, Bertie Ahern?

Give it time.

Mitch Connor · 30-04-2008 12:20PM

To be honest, while i am delighted we made it into the CL final again, at last, i was a little disappointed with the way we have done it. We made it the way Liverpool have done in the past - the way i have moaned about. We did it with defensive football. I would have prefered to have really gone for it. However, i'll take the result, obviously.

Mr Alan · 30-04-2008 12:23PM

PHB wrote: »

It's to do with how they've managed to get to where they are in terms of points tally. It's not due to defensive football, it's due to a lot of good fortune imo.

And there was me thinking you always say, "the league table doesnt lie"?!

Or do you mean that, "the league table doesnt lie, except when its unfavourable to Utd. Only then do dodgy ref decisions and luck come into it".

You make me laugh.

Ronaldo didnt live up to his-"no problem, then i will score in Manchester" speech, disappointing

Boggles · 30-04-2008 12:36PM

astrofool wrote: »

Do people sign up to boards, make the pre-requisite number of posts to get access to soccer, JUST to post or participate in a Ronaldo thread, and post the same thing over and over and over and over..........

Haha Brilliant.

Soccer Access:

Have you 50 posts? - Yes
Have you read the rules? - Yes
Have you submitted your essay on how Ronaldo doesn't track back or play well in the big games? - Yes

Well get in there fast son we havn't read the same thing over and over again about Ronaldo in 15 minutes.

Xavi6 · 30-04-2008 12:39PM

Well the United +1 crew were out in force last night so there's two sides to the coin.

Boggles · 30-04-2008 12:40PM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Well the United +1 crew were out in force last night so there's two sides to the coin.

I think the "United Crew" were entitled to be out last night, agreed?

Xavi6 · 30-04-2008 12:43PM

Oh of course but see you've misquoted me. I said the "United +1 crew" i.e. that's all they had to add to the topic. Infact, one or two were evening posting the same message that they were quoting! (I'm looking at you Kaisersoze1908). Not to mention the one who told the Barca fans to 'fuck off'.

jank · 30-04-2008 12:56PM

Some of the **** thats going on here is that why i think i want chelsea to go on and win it. The lesser of 3 evils.

MrPillowTalk · 30-04-2008 01:21PM

Barca (Barca fans)

I love that little ginger beauty

LegacyUser · 30-04-2008 02:03PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

What am I jealous of?

If you compare the two Ronaldo was outclassed. He spent more time diving and whingeing in the first leg as opposed to contributing as Messi did. In the second leg, it wasn't a contest. Messi was deadly every time he had the ball and the likes of Carrick had to stop him illegally (and take a yellow card).

Best of luck in the finals but I really hope it's nothing to do with sport analysis or you're f*cked mate. :pac:

I don't need luck...I have brains.

Ronaldo was outclassed? Then you need to get rid of the clown glasses you seem to be wearing...

http://www.halloweenscene.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/24908%20clown%20specs.jpg

In case you don't realise, Ronaldo was being fouled all over the place last night...and that's not from the Sky Sports crew...that's fat Pat dolan off Setanta saying it...

Mitch Connor · 30-04-2008 02:06PM

If Messi was deadly every time he got the ball, why did he not score? he was threatening - not deadly

kryogen · 30-04-2008 02:13PM

Barca (Barca fans)

Memnoch wrote: »

It's funny how despite the clear evidence of the two legs Utd fan(atics) refuse to admit that Messi is the better player, which he clearly is on every level.

You're ignoring a few basic fundamentals in your analysis. Firstly that United's defence was godlike (and what won them the game), while Barca's defence was comical at times.

Secondly, As barca got more and more desperate to claw back the goal, it left more and more space for the United attackers to run into, while United always had plenty of men behind the ball.

Your end product talk is also total nonsense. Messi created lots of opportunities throughout the game, playing through balls and stretching united's defence to near breaking point. Unfortunately the rest of his team weren't as inspiritational and couldn't finish off the moves. And yes often the goal-scoring chances were intercepted by brilliant defending, but that is a far cry from "no end product."

Messi vs Ronaldo over the two legs?

Messi dribbled better.
His passing was superior and more insicive. He was able to creat space and find telling passes despite United's amazing and dogged defending.
He never dived once or threw a tantrum, just got on with playing the game as it should be played.
Gave 100% commitment for the entire time he was on the pitch for his team.
Was the most influential attacking player on the pitch in both games.

I don't expect you to concede on these points because your adoration for United and Ronaldo is akin to religion at this point.

But I would hope fans like you will stop harping on about his so called greatness, at least until he produces a messi-like show-stopping performance in a big match, which he YET AGAIN, failed to do.

just because you lengthen your post doesnt make it true......you cant compare a guy playing as a lone striker whos team didnt control possession to a guy playing as part of a team,the focal attacking player in the team with the most control of the ball......

his passing was not more incisive, Ronaldo created more chances for his teammates then Messi did, thats a fact. check it out

what telling pass did he find? when exactly did Barca score?

He did dive. Second half of the game last night, like a sniper shot him, sorry to burst your bubble....all players will do it unfortunatly, and despite the god like status, akin to religion that is bestowed on Messi he isnt above it either, although i agree it isnt a major part of his game

Ronaldo gave 100% commitment last night, i was there, i saw it with my own eyes....he was questionable in the away leg, but he did what he was asked to do last night

Im not a blind lover of Ronaldo, i dont ignore his flaws, but i dont ignore Messis either, he has no right foot, he always has to cut inside, bla bla bla..

it doesnt matter tbh, they are both amazing players and it was a joy to see both play well up close and personal

one more thing? people are asking why a lone striker didnt track back much, which he actually did more then you think, why isnt there a thread full of pages dedicated to why Messi stood there and let Scholes run past him and pick up the ball freely?? he just let him passed, didnt track him at all and watched as he buried it!!!!

does it make him ****?? by you peoples logic i guess it does

Mr. Presentable · 30-04-2008 02:17PM

Man Utd (United fans)

Look, the side that deserved to go through to the final is going through. They scored a goal and the opposition didn't. Thems the facts of the matter.

I won't be watching tonights game having choked down the hoofy that was the first leg, and won't be watching the final - I will be doing my hair that night.

Football is not, for me at least, all about results whatever the cost or method. Football, for me, is skill, technique, flair, style, class and athleticism. But that's not the winning recipe currently. The winning recipe now is power, strength, cynicism, cheating and "work rate" (damn you Alf Ramsey).

Ironic that football was born in England and is now being killed there.

Mr. Presentable · 30-04-2008 02:23PM

Man Utd (United fans)

PHB wrote: »

good fortune imo.

"Good fortune" comes into determining every title. On your reckoning nobody deserves anything.

Boggles · 30-04-2008 02:28PM

kryogen wrote: »

just because you lengthen your post doesnt make it true......you cant compare a guy playing as a lone striker whos team didnt control possession to a guy playing as part of a team,the focal attacking player in the team with the most control of the ball......

Hey Kryogen there is no point debating with that guy, he made his opinions on ronaldo and United fans pretty clear last week when his sent me this cowardly private message.

Memnoch wrote:

United fans are famous for their blindness, but this is a new low and the first time for me that...

not that you will care but I actually find your posts about Ronaldo so blindly idiotic that I'm having to put you on ignore. Grow a brain. Idiot.

He is a cowardly troll, don't feed him.

An Citeog · 30-04-2008 03:04PM

Tbh, I'm pleased with Ronaldo's performance last night. He showed maturity and intelligence in the way he played and it's something that has been missing from his game against top quality opposition. He didn't rip the Barça defence open time and again but he worked hard and sacrificed himself for the team, while playing out of position. The main advantage Messi has over Ronaldo though is his ball control. It's absolutely phenomenal, like the ball just sticks to him and that's why he finds it so easy to beat a man. Ronaldo on the other hand is far more powerful than Messi and can play pretty much anywhere. He's also got a phenomenal goal-scoring record and is extremely effective. Truth is, I'd rather have Ronaldo in my team than Messi. For all Messi's huffing and puffing last night, how many clear-cut opportunities did he create? Ronaldo provided an outlet for United's attack and could have had 3+ assists if Park, Tevez and Nani had put away their chances.

Mitch Connor · 30-04-2008 03:11PM

An Citeog wrote: »

Tbh, I'm pleased with Ronaldo's performance last night. He showed maturity and intelligence in the way he played and it's something that has been missing from his game against top quality opposition. He didn't rip the Barça defence open time and again but he worked hard and sacrificed himself for the team, while playing out of position. The main advantage Messi has over Ronaldo though is his ball control. It's absolutely phenomenal, like the ball just sticks to him and that's why he finds it so easy to beat a man. Ronaldo on the other hand is far more powerful than Messi and can play pretty much anywhere. He's also got a phenomenal goal-scoring record and is extremely effective. Truth is, I'd rather have Ronaldo in my team than Messi. For all Messi's huffing and puffing last night, how many clear-cut opportunities did he create? Ronaldo provided an outlet for United's attack and could have had 3+ assists if Park, Tevez and Nani had put away their chances.

Exactly - it is the type of performance i want to see from Ronaldo. His style of play doesn't suit the way United play or perform in Europe. He is not a player who will dominate on his own - he needs others to occupy defenders so that he is not triple marked, this doesn't happen for him in europe cause united play so deep. He ends up getting isolated, frustrated and crowded out. Last night though, he linked up the play and got the midfield involved. He kept possesion or won free kicks/throws instead of running up blind alleys and losing the ball as he has been known to in the past. It wa a mature and intelligent performance from Ronaldo. Not awesome like we have seen in other games, not eye catching like Messi, but mature and intelligent.

plonk · 30-04-2008 03:13PM

First off I am a huge united fan but dont post too often as most of these threads are crazy.

After the first leg I was slightly worried. We got a 0-0 draw in the nou camp which is a great result but after all uniteds failures throughout the years I was very wary.
I thought ferguson got the team selection wrong in the first leg and we were very lucky. People bitching about Ronaldo need to realise as DesF said fergie told him what to do. He told him to go down easy etc to relieve the pressure for a few minutes. United got out with a great result mainly because barca were bad inside the box.

Now to the second leg. I was slightly suprised again at the team selection. Park and carrick mainly. When the game started it was like a re-run of the first game. United defending and barca holding onto the ball with their 5 man midfield which united struggled to cope with.
But then up pops scholes and were 1-0 up. Thats all we needed in the end.

Messi was amazing but he didnt have the final ball and without that barca werent going to score. In last nights game they only had one chance inside the box whereas united had several.

For me brown was motm with tevez being a really close second. Until last night I was going to get tevez on my shirt but now I think i will get brown.

Barcas midfield dominated in the 2 legs but they didnt have a killer edge and that was their downfall. Bring on the scousers

Nunu · 30-04-2008 03:14PM

nipplenuts wrote: »

Look, the side that deserved to go through to the final is going through. They scored a goal and the opposition didn't. Thems the facts of the matter.

I won't be watching tonights game having choked down the hoofy that was the first leg, and won't be watching the final - I will be doing my hair that night.

Football is not, for me at least, all about results whatever the cost or method. Football, for me, is skill, technique, flair, style, class and athleticism. But that's not the winning recipe currently. The winning recipe now is power, strength, cynicism, cheating and "work rate" (damn you Alf Ramsey).

Ironic that football was born in England and is now being killed there.

Oh, please!!

All those elements were present last night, from both sides...and I didn't see any cynicism or cheating.

Mr. Presentable · 30-04-2008 03:19PM

Man Utd (United fans)

Nunu wrote: »

Oh, please!!

All those elements were present last night, from both sides...and I didn't see any cynicism or cheating.

But,
I am talking about football, not just last night's game. But, while you are here, would you be crying for a sending off if the Scholes "tackle" early in the game had been on, say C Ronaldo! That was cynical and crude.

Do you see?

Mitch Connor · 30-04-2008 03:21PM

nipplenuts wrote: »

But,
I am talking about football, not just last night's game. But, while you are here, would you be crying for a sending off if the Scholes "tackle" early in the game had been on, say C Ronaldo! That was cynical and crude.

Do you see?

Do you see? Do you SEE? Look closelyer...Do you SEE?

Nunu · 30-04-2008 03:25PM

nipplenuts wrote: »

But,
I am talking about football, not just last night's game. But, while you are here, would you be crying for a sending off if the Scholes "tackle" early in the game had been on, say C Ronaldo! That was cynical and crude.

Do you see?

No, i wouldn't. That tackle was necessary - it's always been like that. defo a yellow, not a a red though.

I just think your views are too romanticised. Was football ever really like that and is todays brand really that much of a turn-off for you?

Mr. Presentable · 30-04-2008 03:32PM

Man Utd (United fans)

Nunu wrote: »

I just think your views are too romanticised.

That, I'm afraid, may be true. But I'd rather watch the Brazil of 1970 than the Liverpool of 2005.

Not picking on Liverpool, just an example

Mitch Connor · 30-04-2008 03:33PM

nipplenuts wrote: »

That, I'm afraid, may be true. But I'd rather watch the Brazil of 1970 than the Liverpool of 2005.

Not picking on Liverpool, just an example

How about Arsenal of George Graham years or Arsenal now? Brazil in the 80's or, say, Argentina now? United in the 80's, or United now?

evad_lhorg · 30-04-2008 03:56PM

Barca (Barca fans)

just back from the match. absolutely mental. I have never seen atmosphere like that in OT and outside before the game too. had a perfect view from the stretford end of the swerve on Scholesys goal which made it even better. anyway....
Follow, follow, follow
'cause United are goin to Moscow
There'll be thousands of reds
We'll be pissed off our heads
'cause United are goin to Moscow

kryogen · 30-04-2008 04:16PM

Barca (Barca fans)

evad_lhorg wrote: »

just back from the match. absolutely mental. I have never seen atmosphere like that in OT and outside before the game too. had a perfect view from the stretford end of the swerve on Scholesys goal which made it even better. anyway....
Follow, follow, follow
'cause United are goin to Moscow
There'll be thousands of reds
We'll be pissed off our heads
'cause United are goin to Moscow

+1
it was some atmosphere alright!! absolutely delighted i got to see that one, i missed going to practiaclly all the games this season cause of work

that one made up for it though!

Man Utd vs. Barca (2nd leg)

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