How quickly can you learn to speak Polish?

Unaton · 19-04-2008 06:11PM

Why are we only discussing Poles? I know a lot of people from Netherlands and Germany working here. Are they excluded from this 'oh bleedin forrinners taking our jawbs' debate?

Wertz · 19-04-2008 06:14PM

Turbodreams wrote: »

i work with about 10 polish men during the summer when im not in college. now, 8 out of those 10 send approx. 70-80% of their wages back home to poland for their families, relatives etc.
i am not being smart here, i genuinely would like to know the answer- how can this be good for our economy? surely it has a detrimental effect?

It's good if you're a landlord renting out properties, it was good if you were a developer selling those houses to the landlord...or at least it was until property went tits up and said landlords discover their re-sale prices aren't what they figured they might be...
It's good that small to medium enterprises can get relatively cheap staff who are supposedly unlikely to hang around long enough for any sort of pension rights or other overheads to push up their basic rates...it's even better for the more unscrupulous employer who can pick up two or maybe three people willing to work all the hours god sends for the same rate as one "lazy" native...
But it's best if you're the like of Western Union or other money transfer broker, making all that lovely commision :pac: ...

Daithifleming, one flaw in your example of the US and immigrant voting rights is that in order to partake in the democratic processes those immigrants had to take their oath of allegiance and become US citizens. That still stands to this day.
I know NINs in this country are citizens of the EU but until such time as we have central or federalised european government, they are not Irish citizens and as such shouldn't be afforded the same democratic rights. I'm not saying that that's the way it should remain, they are of course entitled to have some say in how their taxes get spent, how their kids are educated, all that jazz, and they are entitled to representation, either by ex-pats from their own country or from this one...perhaps granting voting rights to those permanently resident after a period of years or those here on some form of proper work permit (yet to be implemented; highly unlikely to be) would be less idiotic than
Lenihan's short sighted proposals..

[edit] LMAO 3K a month? After tax? Would you ever feck off...

Turbodreams · 19-04-2008 06:19PM

Wertz wrote: »

It's good if you're a landlord renting out properties, it was good if you were a developer selling those houses to the landlord...or at least it was until property went tits up and said landlords discover their re-sale prices aren't what they figured they might be...
It's good that small to medium enterprises can get relatively cheap staff who are supposedly unlikely to hang around long enough for any sort of pension rights or other overheads to push up their basic rates...it's even better for the more unscrupulous employer who can pick up two or maybe three people willing to work all the hours god sends for the same rate as one "lazy" native...
But it's best if you're the like of Western Union or other money transfer broker, making all that lovely commision :pac: ...
.

yeah i supose they are all good points

Ekancone · 19-04-2008 06:20PM

Turbodreams wrote: »

and the answer to the question is where?? :rolleyes:

Sorry, I didn't realise your capacity to understand was that poor. My answer is that the wealth that they create with their hands far outweighs what they send home. Would you like me to draw a diagram?

Ekancone · 19-04-2008 06:22PM

Wertz wrote: »

Daithifleming, one flaw in your example of the US and immigrant voting rights is that in order to partake in the democratic processes those immigrants had to take their oath of allegiance and become US citizens. That still stands to this day.

Good point, and conceded.

Wertz wrote: »

I know NINs in this country are citizens of the EU but until such time as we have central or federalised european government, they are not Irish citizens and as such shouldn't be afforded the same democratic rights. I'm not saying that that's the way it should remain, they are of course entitled to have some say in how their taxes get spent, how their kids are educated, all that jazz, and they are entitled to representation, either by ex-pats from their own country or from this one...perhaps granting voting rights to those permanently resident after a period of years or those here on some form of proper work permit (yet to be implemented; highly unlikely to be) would be less idiotic than
Lenihan's short sighted proposals..

Another good point. Much more sensible than what some of the cretins in here are harping on about.

Kernel · 19-04-2008 06:23PM

Unaton wrote: »

"And naturally, nobody asked the Irish people what they thought of this little scheme."

This is a EU scheme. If you are living in Spain, you can vote there. If a Pole is living in Belgium, he can vote there. (in EU electtions) So now he just wants to apply this scheme to national elections. But to be honest I don't see why non-Irish would be interested in voting here.

Well, the problem I see is that in my opinion only Irish citizens should be allowed to vote in elections to represent Irish affairs. The whole thing is simply a further erosion of individual nationalism in EU. Globablisation, new world order, etc - an EU Superstate is part of the whole plan, and wont be stopped by the plebs (look at double Nice treaty referenda for example). Lenihan is simply pushing his EU masters' agenda.

Who knows, it could work out well, or it could turn into 1984esque fascist nightmare.........

Ekancone · 19-04-2008 06:24PM

Kernel wrote: »

Well, the problem I see is that in my opinion only Irish citizens should be allowed to vote in elections to represent Irish affairs. The whole thing is simply a further erosion of individual nationalism in EU. Globablisation, new world order, etc - an EU Superstate is part of the whole plan, and wont be stopped by the plebs (look at double Nice treaty referenda for example). Lenihan is simply pushing his EU masters' agenda.

Who knows, it could work out well, or it could turn into 1984esque fascist nightmare.........

:rolleyes:

Tha Gopher · 19-04-2008 06:25PM

DublinWriter wrote: »

So you are saying that all Poles are good for is sandwich making?

No.

Although the effort it takes to convey your order and get what you asked for also infuriates my Latvian colleague.

It was a little joke, relax.

I think your attitude stems from the basic insecurity that the Poles, like most immigrant groups, will start working their way up the economic value-chain.

In all fairness, and this is completely subjective, I've never heard any professional-class Irish person complain about immigration. The only ones I've ever heard bitch about them were those who worked in unskilled labour or were on the scratch.

So only accountants and lawyers matter? Taxi drivers, builders, chefs and any other trade under pressure from uncontrolled migration can go fcuk themselves with their whinging?

Kernel · 19-04-2008 06:27PM

daithifleming wrote: »

I wished to dispell the belief that immigration and giving rights to immigrants does not always lead to destruction. In fact, I cant think of any instances in modern history where this is so.

Tell the Native American 'Indians' that....

Ekancone · 19-04-2008 06:28PM

Kernel wrote: »

Tell the Native American 'Indians' that....

Right, not much chance of that happening in this scenario, is there?

Sgt Hartman · 19-04-2008 06:29PM

Unaton wrote: »

Um that's probably true. But will a few buses full of Poles change the outcome of the national elections?

On the other hand, they are working here, living here, paying taxes, their kids go to school here so why wouldn't they be allowed to vote? Nowadays, non-Irish nationals are also a part of our society, we just can't ignore that.

Why not just call them "foreigners" instead of that PC, media-invented term "Non-Irish-National"?

Groan!

Tha Gopher · 19-04-2008 06:30PM

Kernel wrote: »

Tell the Native American 'Indians' that....

Or the Maori.

Or the South American tribes.

Or black South Africans.

Or Tibetans.

Or Ulster pre plantation Irish.

Or Palestinians who lived in what was Israel.

Woah. Long list.

daithifleming wrote: »

1- I would advise him/her to retrain. The boom is over and it isn't coming back

2- I didn't say racist, I said bigot. And yes, they are, and hypocrites to boot.

3- I am curious though, if i hadnt met one, how would that invalidate my opinion? Take your time with this one.

1- Would you like it if a TD told you to retrain and get another job because you were pushed out of your profession?

2- No. They are people who are glad they got in when they did but think the policy is a joke. Hey, Im glad the UK took the stress of us in the 80s! It was sh1t for their own people and economy, but thank god they did it!

3- Lol.

Oh and btw, if you cant post responses to people consisting of more than the rolleyes smilkey maybe its best to just concede that you are wrong

And that you know it.

gsxr1 · 19-04-2008 06:32PM

ninty9er wrote: »

There is massive construction going on on infrastructure in this country. Any builder who wants WORK as opposed to the OVERPAID work they've been getting for the last number of years will find it.

God help us, they might even have to find out what it's like to live on €3k a month.

Fook sake!!

If a builder wants work they'll find it, if they don't find any they're a lazy arsewipe.

arse wipe.??? Foolish comment

A big builder let go of 500 lads recently. most of these people where skilled trades men. Some may get jobs some may not. I am sure most have bills to pay. There is not many construction jobs out there at the moment.

I am a chippy. I work hard and get paid well for it. Do you think A man that works on a site deserves low pay. ????? If so why? are we all Lazy.

Why dont you build blocks or tile roofs every day. Just to see how us lazy lads do it.

If people don't work hard they get sacked.

You obviously have no clue about the construction industry with silly comments like that.

Ekancone · 19-04-2008 06:34PM

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Or the Maori.

Or the South American tribes.

Or black South Africans.

Or Tibetans.

Or Ulster pre plantation Irish.

Or Palestinians who lived in what was Israel.

Woah. Long list.

Quite a liberal use of the word immigration there. Those damn American Soldier immigrants in Iraq, taking all the Iraqi peoples jobs. Grr...

I remember when all those pesky Nazis emigrated into Eastern Europe, perhaps you could ask your EE friends about that.

Ekancone · 19-04-2008 06:36PM

gsxr1 wrote: »

arse wipe.??? Foolish comment

A big builder let go of 500 lads recently. most of these people where skilled trades men. Some may get jobs some may not. I am sure most have bills to pay. There is not many construction jobs out there at the moment.

I am a chippy. I work hard and get paid well for it. Do you think A man that works on a site deserves low pay. ????? If so why? are we all Lazy.

Why dont you build blocks or tile roofs every day. Just to see how us lazy lads do it.

If people don't work hard they get sacked.

You obviously have no clue about the construction industry with silly comments like that.

I think you guys have gotten a little too used to being paid wages that are fitting for a construction boom. That boom is over and its time your unions got realistic with your wage demands.

Kernel · 19-04-2008 06:37PM

daithifleming wrote: »

Quite a liberal use of the word immigration there. Those damn American Soldier immigrants in Iraq, taking all the Iraqi peoples jobs. Grr...

Wasn't your point that mass immigration in the US didn't destroy their preexisting society? In which case, QED; it obliterated the indigenous peoples.

Tha Gopher · 19-04-2008 06:38PM

gsxr1 wrote: »

arse wipe.??? Foolish comment

A big builder let go of 500 lads recently. most of these people where skilled trades men. Some may get jobs some may not. I am sure most have bills to pay. There is not many construction jobs out there at the moment.

I am a chippy. I work hard and get paid well for it. Do you think A man that works on a site deserves low pay. ????? If so why? are we all Lazy.

Why dont you build blocks or tile roofs every day. Just to see how us lazy lads do it.

If people don't work hard they get sacked.

You obviously have no clue about the construction industry with silly comments like that.

Look at the sig he has.

Now, understand?

:rolleyes:

We aint never had it so good.......

Ekancone · 19-04-2008 06:39PM

Kernel wrote: »

Wasn't your point that mass immigration in the US didn't destroy their preexisting society? In which case, QED; it obliterated the indigenous peoples.

Sigh, not the same. Its really sad when people need to resort to extreme examples to prove their point. You know very well I was comparing an established democracy with the same, not a empty land inhabited by nomadic tribes. Do I really need to point this out?

*sigh*

Go on, entertain me with your NWO fantasies for a while...

Turbodreams · 19-04-2008 06:40PM

daithifleming wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't realise your capacity to understand was that poor. My answer is that the wealth that they create with their hands far outweighs what they send home. Would you like me to draw a diagram?

apologies, i wish i could be more like you. infact, you sir, are my hero:cool:

Tha Gopher · 19-04-2008 06:40PM

daithifleming wrote: »

Quite a liberal use of the word immigration there. Those damn American Soldier immigrants in Iraq, taking all the Iraqi peoples jobs. Grr...

I remember when all those pesky Nazis emigrated into Eastern Europe, perhaps you could ask your EE friends about that.

The Jews in Israel were at first an immigrant minority. Then they got weaponry.

I normally hate int3rwebz spk, but sir, you have been pwnd.

Royally. Digging a hole all the way to Oz. Not one arguement or reply you have given has had any logic or fact.

Goodnight.

Ekancone · 19-04-2008 06:41PM

Turbodreams wrote: »

apologies, i wish i could be more like you. infact, you sir, are my hero:cool:

Yay!

Ekancone · 19-04-2008 06:42PM

Tha Gopher wrote: »

The Jews in Israel were at first an immigrant minority. Then they got weaponry.

I normally hate int3rwebz spk, but sir, you have been pwnd.

Royally. Digging a hole all the way to Oz. Not one arguement or reply you have given has had any logic or fact.

Goodnight.

Again, resorting to extreme examples shows poor debating skills. Once again I feel the need to point out that the context of your example is hideously out of place. I would hate to have your level of ignorance. I pity you.

Tha Gopher · 19-04-2008 06:47PM

daithifleming wrote: »

Again, resorting to extreme examples shows poor debating skills. Once again I feel the need to point out that the context of your example is hideously out of place. I would hate to have your level of ignorance. I pity you.

I personally feel the risk of the Poles taking up arms and seizing power is non existant. But you were the one who said a nation never suffered from immigration.

This was then retracted to nations which werent uncivillised tribal areas.

Palestine was fairly civillised. The British allowed limited migration. Eventually they became the majority and seized power.

So now that we have that point out of the way, anything further to add?

Kernel · 19-04-2008 06:48PM

daithifleming wrote: »

Sigh, not the same. Its really sad when people need to resort to extreme examples to prove their point. You know very well I was comparing an established democracy with the same, not a empty land inhabited by nomadic tribes. Do I really need to point this out?

*sigh*

Now now Dave, your point was solely towards the US and immigration. The US being founded on immigration displaced and destroyed more than a few nomadic tribes on an empty land. Here, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_peoples and this: http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/native-americans.html

daithifleming wrote: »

Go on, entertain me with your NWO fantasies for a while...

Fantasies? There are many references to the NWO, a globalist superstate, if you bother to look them up. It's happening right now, and is accepted as fact, read a book by Brzezinski. The question is; is the NWO of benefit to mankind, or is it going to be a bad thing. That's where the debate is now.

And with that, I am off for a pint.

DublinWriter · 19-04-2008 06:49PM

gsxr1 wrote: »

A big builder let go of 500 lads recently.

Boo hoo. Do you know how hard it is to get a decent plumber/bricky/plasterer these days if you're a home-owner and you work doing?

There's plenty of domestic work out there to absorb the recent losses. The problem is most Irish tradesmen won't get on their bike and look for it, unlike the Poles.

OP, your argument can be summarised thusly - Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Taoiseach.

gsxr1 · 19-04-2008 06:49PM

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Look at the sig he has.

Now, understand? :rolleyes:

We aint never had it so good.......

My sig?

its in relation to track racing.

I know we have it good. I hope we can maintain it into the future.

all of us.

Sgt Hartman · 19-04-2008 06:50PM

DublinWriter wrote: »

In all fairness, and this is completely subjective, I've never heard any professional-class Irish person complain about immigration. The only ones I've ever heard bitch about them were those who worked in unskilled labour or were on the scratch.

That's because quite a few "professional-class" Irish people seem to be too wrapped up in their money and material possessions to care about the damage that uncontrolled migration will do to the country in the future. According to the link below, if current trends continue, we'll be an ethnic minority in our own country by 2050. I wonder what those people who fought in 1916 and the War of Independence would have thought of this. Is this what they really fought for??

http://www.gaelport.com/index.php?page=clippings&id=55&viewby=date

Unaton wrote: »

Why are we only discussing Poles? I know a lot of people from Netherlands and Germany working here. Are they excluded from this 'oh bleedin forrinners taking our jawbs' debate?

In fairness, the Dutch and the Germans aren't entering the country in the same numbers as the Poles are.

Kernel · 19-04-2008 06:50PM

Tha Gopher wrote: »

I personally feel the risk of the Poles taking up arms and seizing power is non existant. But you were the one who said a nation never suffered from immigration.

This was then retracted to nations which werent uncivillised tribal areas.

Palestine was fairly civillised. The British allowed limited migration. Eventually they became the majority and seized power.

So now that we have that point out of the way, anything further to add?

Dave also seems to believe that democracy is the only valid form of government, and any other systems should be ignored as irrelevent. I think he works for the Bush administration!

AckwelFoley · 19-04-2008 06:50PM

This thread reeks of scare mongering.

Yes the polish are smelly and evil and the Irish are allgreat upstanding people. :rolleyes:

Best thing to do i suggest is to get yourselves a franchaise for the KKK.. get a few sheets and start the campaign.

Dont be offended if i dont join... i just like to try and sometimes look at things realistically and not out of my arsehole.

That is all.

Dziękują.

Op wy jesteście idiotą

ninty9er · 19-04-2008 06:53PM

gsxr1 wrote: »

arse wipe.??? Foolish comment

A big builder let go of 500 lads recently. most of these people where skilled trades men. Some may get jobs some may not. I am sure most have bills to pay. There is not many construction jobs out there at the moment.

I am a chippy. I work hard and get paid well for it. Do you think A man that works on a site deserves low pay. ????? If so why? are we all Lazy.

Why dont you build blocks or tile roofs every day. Just to see how us lazy lads do it.

If people don't work hard they get sacked.

You obviously have no clue about the construction industry with silly comments like that.

If you read what I wrote, I said those builders who can't find jobs are lazy arsewipes, as anyone looking for a job in Ireland today can get one. Multi-nationals are passing this country over for investment because of labour shortages.

FÁS exists to assist builders, machinists, accountants, managers to upskill/reskill if they have become unemployed.

If someone wants to work to pay bills it doesn't matter what the job is. You may be a chippy as you've said, but if you can earn €40k a year laying tarmac or preparing ground on the M4 what of it. It's a job, the same way as I could be a trainee accountant on €14 k for 3 years and then move to €30k once I pass my exams or just jump straight in at €60k working as a manager for Aldi.

One is considered more respectable, yet the other (as I have experienced in mnetioning it as an option I'm considering) is a job people snivel at that would pay a mortgage within 10 years, by which stgage I'd just about have a car loan paid in the first job.

Builders have to realise that they had a pay honeymoon the last 10-15 years, now they've got to get real if they want to work. I know foreigners who work on building sites and their description of the Irish lads work ethic (on the widespread scale) isn't exactly brimming with compliments. There's a reason that construction companies advertise jobs looking for "Spanish/Portuguese" builders, and it's not for their language skills.

How quickly can you learn to speak Polish?

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