Champions League Final 2008

gimmick · 10-04-2008 11:01AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

No Neil is from Utd fan-he's from London, obviously.

Xavi is from Manchester.

And i am from Liverpool.

Now carry on with your business

Well, that didn't work

Xavi6 · 10-04-2008 11:02AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I used to work with Neil, and he is always wrong-especially about football

He's about as Manc as ya can get btw! shame on you sticking up for him

You know as well as I do that there's only one team from Manchester

egan007 · 10-04-2008 11:05AM

smemon wrote: »

Based on performances so far in the CL, Utd deserve to win it.

Luckily they don't decide it on performances so far

It's knockout now - past performances have nothing to do with Semi Finals

To the OP - Football teams travel all the time I can't imagine Visas are problematic.

Mitch Connor · 10-04-2008 11:08AM

iregk wrote: »

Would you all get off your high horses and have a bit of perspective. Why have uefa made a mess of it? By picking Moscow! It may not occour to you but they don't know who is going to be in the final at the time of picking the stadium. Lets say it was Lokomotive Moscow and Dinamo Kiev in the final, would it be a balls up then? No its ignorant fans that don't understand why their precious teams have to travel so far away and get a visa. Oh the hardship.

Should they just keep the big leagues happy and alternate the final between england, spain, italy and germany? Or how about anywhere in western europe for that matter and ignore trying to promote football on the eastern block.

They alternate the stadiums on the basis of countries that play in european competition. Believe it or not russia does play football so they have their turn. If ireland actually got a good stadium and infrastructure then we could have it as well. Would that make you happy?

Rubbish - the odds on two Russian teams gettig to the final are remote at best (when was the last one?) so for virtually every team you would expect to get into the final it will be neccessary for the fans to get Visas - which won't be easy given the numbers and time. So your are going to have 10's of thousands of fans applying for visas at the same time and needing them within a 4 week periodIf Russia didn't have the visa issue the game placement wouldn't matter - but it does, so it is an issue. At the least Uefa could have said you will not get the final unless you make it easier for fans to get to the game, but they didn't and apparently the Russian government don't have any intention of making things easier at this point.

gimmick wrote: »

Can't agree with that. Marquez is a disaster. I really reckon the only reason he is there is for marketing in Mexico. Milito is an excellent player. I would have him and Thuram ahead of using Marquez every day of the week.

I agree that Marquez had been poor last season and some of this, but he is getting back to his pre-WC2006 form and looking good.

iregk · 10-04-2008 01:33PM

Tauren wrote: »

Rubbish - the odds on two Russian teams gettig to the final are remote at best (when was the last one?) so for virtually every team you would expect to get into the final it will be neccessary for the fans to get Visas - which won't be easy given the numbers and time.

I know its remote two russian teams getting to the final but I was using them as a case in point. Also you'll find I mentioned Kiev and correct me if I'm wrong but thats not a Russian team.

A lot of people here seem to think its unfair based on the fact that the teams going to be traveling are from England and Spain with expensive hotel rooms. I'm sure there are cheaper hotels in Moscow than 500 a night. Again do people simply want the final rotated around the 4 big countries?

As one person put it. It should only been in a country thats easily reached from the whole of Europe. Ok then. England and Spain are on the west coast (so to speak) of Europe. Italy/Greece ... the south. Russia the east. So thats leaves Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Ok so lets only have the final in those countries!

Mitch Connor · 10-04-2008 01:43PM

iregk wrote: »

I know its remote two russian teams getting to the final but I was using them as a case in point. Also you'll find I mentioned Kiev and correct me if I'm wrong but thats not a Russian team.

A lot of people here seem to think its unfair based on the fact that the teams going to be traveling are from England and Spain with expensive hotel rooms. I'm sure there are cheaper hotels in Moscow than 500 a night. Again do people simply want the final rotated around the 4 big countries?

As one person put it. It should only been in a country thats easily reached from the whole of Europe. Ok then. England and Spain are on the west coast (so to speak) of Europe. Italy/Greece ... the south. Russia the east. So thats leaves Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Ok so lets only have the final in those countries!

Most coutries can be easily reached, and my gripe is not with the cost of getting there, it is the fact it will be damned awkward to get there with thousands of people applying for Visa's at the same time, and it needing to be sorted so quickly - it will be an administrational nightmare, and it could end up with people having tickets but not getting a Visa so they can't go t the game. Again, if Russia had no Visa policy, or made it a lot easier for people to get one in the run up to the final (you have a ticket, it counts as a Visa or something) I would have no issue, but the fact is there is a Visa issue, and it could be a highly problematic issue.

Just for completeness, the rail network is pretty good throughout Europe, so it isn't all that difficult for people in europe to get anywhere within it without too much hassle.

Lister1 · 10-04-2008 01:56PM

Any truth in the rumor that Abramovich had block booked all the decent hotels in Moscow for the dates around the final? Anyone else see this report a dew weeks back?

cournioni · 10-04-2008 01:59PM

Xavi6 wrote: »

You know as well as I do that there's only one team from Manchester

Indeed...

http://www.tshirtsunited.com/images/designs/0161mir_design.jpg

---
On topic Moscow is a terrible venue for any supporter travelling to it. My Dad was at the Russia vs. Ireland match there a few years back and he said he would never ever go back. Police as crooked as a Swiss road and everywhere is completely run by the mafia. Then you have the trouble from the local skin heads... He saw a group of skin heads holding up an LVF banner in an attempt to rise the Irish fans, when that didn't work they started firing bottles at the Irish fans. Not to mention what went on in Moscow after Japan knocked them out of the WC in 2002.

Not a fan friendly place at all.

iregk · 10-04-2008 02:00PM

Lister1 wrote: »

Any truth in the rumor that Abramovich had block booked all the decent hotels in Moscow for the dates around the final? Anyone else see this report a dew weeks back?

That rumour has ran for the past couple of years, replace the city with what ever one the final is in. No truth in it at all I'd say.

lpool2k05 · 10-04-2008 02:01PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rome, i think?

Everyone knows how welcoming their fans are, more super work from Uefa.

Yeh 2009 Rome!!
2010 Madrid! so it does get better
2011 should be wembley!

Killme00 · 10-04-2008 02:12PM

lpool2k05 wrote: »

Yeh 2009 Rome!!
2010 Madrid! so it does get better
2011 should be wembley!

Yep
2009 Olympic Stadium Rome
2010 Bernesbeu Madrid
2011 should be CROKER!!!

10-04-2008 02:29PM

Xavi6 wrote: »

You know as well as I do that there's only one team from Manchester

Yea United, there is a team in blue around Stockport though!!

:D:D

I see Mike beat me to it, interesting 3 of the last 4 finals were in eastern cities. And the Paris final was for the 50th anniversary otherwise it probably would have been in Timbuktu.

I agree Alan btw, UEFA should have got guarantees from the Russians about the VISA issue. No doubt with it being a home game for Chelski IF they make the final, then their fans will be ok

:D

PHB · 10-04-2008 03:36PM

UEFA don't give a **** about fans. It's nuts to have a final in Moscow.
Nowhere near enough hotel space, extremely expensive to get to, and then theres the VISA cost!
If you don't travel with the club you'll have trouble.

Mr Alan · 10-04-2008 03:39PM

see iregk?

if me and PHB are agreeing, you know you are onto a loser

IrishMike · 10-04-2008 03:43PM

I agree with PHB and Mr Alan.

I actually feel dirty after saying that.

kenco · 10-04-2008 03:50PM

Any one planning to go over for the game should note that kick off time is a quarter to 11 to cater for the west euro tv audiences!

Lots of English fans of one shade or another with nothing to do all day but hit the pubs. Come around 8 or 9pm the 'fun' with the locals and police should be interesting.....

Mr Alan · 10-04-2008 03:54PM

If Utd and Liverpool meet in this game

(which i dont think they will)

It will, quite literally, end in bloodshed.

iregk · 11-04-2008 08:09AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

see iregk?
if me and PHB are agreeing, you know you are onto a loser

Hahaha, fair point. To be honest I covered myself in dirt earlier in the week and agreed with PHB on a different point.

I will conceed the visa aspect on all points as honestly I wasn't aware of the visa need when I first posted so for those (PHB) that made that the basis of their argument fair enough. For people that complained simply on the fact that its moscow I stand firm.

RE*AC*TOR · 11-04-2008 08:32AM

If Liverpool do end up going, there'll be a lot of hacked off decent fans who travelled to Athens who won't go near Moscow.

Malice · 11-04-2008 08:59AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

If Utd and Liverpool meet in this game

(which i dont think they will)

It will, quite literally, end in bloodshed.

If Man Utd and Liverpool meet in the final there won't just be bloodshed in Moscow unfortunately. There's enough dickhead supporters on both sides who won't be able to help themselves wherever they are.

As for the stadium choice, I agree with what's been written on here already. The stupidity in having a venue that requires a visa essentially means more tickets for "corporate hospitality" rather than the average supporter.
There's an excellent article here. It's from a Liverpool fan site but that shouldn't stop you reading the article even if you don't follow the team! It discusses Athens, Istanbul, Moscow and Rome (next year's location). This is the Moscow section:

This year there are 4 domestic sides still in the competition, and the final venue being Moscow. It's now confirmed that at least one of ourselves or Chelsea will be travelling to Moscow, and with the form Barcelona are in, pretty much certain that United will be there as well for an all english final. This is a city that is home to one of the most corrupt police forces this side of South America. A very expensive city, and one very difficult to reach without paying top dollar for a chartered and organised flight. Then there is the visa issue.

UEFA have stated that all fans must produce a match ticket and proof of accomodation before they will be granted a visa. There will obviously be no day trips, as UEFA state everyone travelling must stay over on the night of the game in order to be granted a visa. Are there enough hotels rooms available to cope with that demand? And what happens to those that don't get a match ticket from the club until just over a week before the final, depending on the sale criteria? Will they be able to obtain a visa in that short a time period?

William Gaillard, the UEFA Spokesman said this: "You will not get a visa without an official ticket, it will be as simple as that...and visa requirements will be strict. Fans will also have to stay overnight on the evening of the final and give the name of their accommodation before receiving a visa."

Then add the cost cost for the visa. Surely UEFA would have negotiated, like that did with Turkey, that the visa will be waived on production of match ticket? It seems not. I just can't see how the Russian Embassy will be able to cope with 40,000+ visa applications in the space of 3 weeks before the final.

Take into account the policing and corruption in Moscow, the accessibility issues, cost issues and visa issues - just how did UEFA deem Moscow to be a suitable venue to host the biggest game in club football, but Madrid was not adequate until they made those ground improvements? Madness. Or maybe there is a reason, covered by William Gaillard again when he stated, due to the strict ticketing and visa policies in place, "We don't expect to see thousands of intoxicated ticketless supporters hanging around Red Square causing trouble". In other words. He doesn't want us there.

No matter what happens in the next few weeks, I won't be going to Moscow. I never thought I could hear myself saying that I'd miss my side in a European Cup Final, but Moscow is a reciepe for disaster. Istanbul and Athens will seem like a trip to Aston Villa away in comparison.

I have a friend that travels everywhere with Liverpool, but has missed our previous trips to Moscow due to the abuse he thought he'd recieve, just for being black. I know of another asian man that has followed Liverpool home and away for years. He travelled to Moscow a few years ago for a Liverpool game, and on attempting to enter the stadium, the police ripped his match ticket infront of his face, being told hid kind weren't welcome. Others were mugged and beaten by the local police for no reason at all. Yet this city is deemed fit to host a European Cup Final?

Thank you UEFA.

The second quote from the UEFA spokesman is very interesting. They essentially won't want fans congregating which given that the game won't kick off until late due to television scheduling could well be a recipe for disaster.

Pal · 11-04-2008 09:04AM

If Man United get to the Final (and they probably will), I predict that there will be serious problems in Moscow no matter who they play.

Mitch Connor · 11-04-2008 09:08AM

Pal wrote: »

If Man United get to the Final (and they probably will), I predict that there will be serious problems in Moscow no matter who they play.

why?

Because the United fans will be there and they are particularly bad, or because they would definately be playing an English side?

Xavi6 · 11-04-2008 09:09AM

Excellent article posted above and truth in every word.

It's sad that the biggest story to come out of the potential first all-English final will be acquired off the pitch and not on it. As a neutral I already feel sorry for the families of the victims, because it's inevitable that there will be some.

Mr Alan · 11-04-2008 09:10AM

I wondered how long it would take you to respond to that tauren

11-04-2008 09:29AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I wondered how long it would take you to respond to that tauren

It was a stupid thing to say without explaining what he meant by it.

Given UEFAs problem with the English teams stems from Liverpool fans breaking the barriers in Athens and all that. None of the English clubs have angelic supporters, lets get that outta the way now. But to single one set out is just dumb and stirring the pot on here to be honest.

Mr Alan · 11-04-2008 09:39AM

nice work forgetting about Rome, OT and Lille there Neil

11-04-2008 09:58AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

nice work forgetting about Rome, OT and Lille there Neil

OK, Ill bite.

Pot kettle black Alan. I always find it funny that u get so high and mighty about this issue bearing in mind what has gone on before. No leg to stand on whatsoever. My point was the guy was suggesting that United fans are there just to start trouble which is untrue.

IIRC correctly Rome was a bunch of United fans being rushed by the police for nothing more than gesturing back at the Roma fans. Remember this was the angelic Roma they were playing and the Italian police arent exactly renouned for their good work in these situations are they? Even you have to admit that, cos u said it earlier in the thread

And United have been there twice since with no problems at all.

Lille was a disgrace, I agree, because of the muppets trying to get in with the fake tickets....(Athens, barriers pushed down etc??;)) and those fans shouldnt be allowed go to United games ever again because they caused a lot of trouble and robbed the real fans who had genuine tickets, but dont forget that there were fans who bought genuine tickets outside the ground, who were told by the French authorities to go to the United end because they didnt want them mingling with the home fans. Asking for problems by overfilling one end. The trouble started when people at the front who were being crushed started trying to climb the fence cos they were getting crushed.

As for your OT statement well Im gonna asume ur talking about the Roma second leg last year (7-1!! :P) where there was a brief exchange between the fans that was blown out of all proportion by SSN??

Mr Alan · 11-04-2008 10:03AM

now Neil, point out where i dissed Utd fans in this thread please?

I just responded to your Uefa would wanna be worried about Liverpool fans.

i believe the term pot,kettle and black is more suited to your original post tbh.

Mitch Connor · 11-04-2008 10:06AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

nice work forgetting about Rome, OT and Lille there Neil

Roma in Rome was as much the fault of the police and Roma fans - the Roma fans were throwing missiles at the United fans, and the police rushed the United fans and the United fans reacted aggresively to this and the fact the police weren't trying to stop it(while stewards politely asked the Roma fans to stop throwing junk at the united lads). If you remember the scenes, it was mainly United fans backing away with hands up while getting clobbered.

At OT the following match, those black hoody wearing C-UNITS were entirely to blame, i'll admit that straight away - and they weren't even going to the match.

As for Lille - I'll grant fans trying to get in without tickets is a completely crappy thing to do, and those that attempted this should be ashamed. However, the Lille police were a bunch of muppet thugs. People trying to escape the crush got HAMMERED by the police. People WITH tickets trying to get in to the stadium were HAMMERED by the police. The people walking away from the stadium got blocked in, tear gassed, set on by attack dogs and HAMMERED by the police.

Also, none of the above show that United fans are any worse than Chelsea/Liverpool fans, so my question stands, why was United specifically mentioned.

yom 1 · 11-04-2008 10:06AM

Tauren wrote: »

why?

Because the United fans will be there and they are particularly bad, or because they would definately be playing an English side?

I took it up as there will defo be trouble as it will involve 2 english sides. The game doesnt start until nearly 11 pm local time. Thats a full day of boozin in anticipation of whats to come from 2 overly vocal sets of supporters. Add to that the volatile nature of the moscow police and you really do have a recipe for disaster. I really do think that if it is an all english affair this years final will be remembered for anything but football.

Champions League Final 2008

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