sell outs!!!

Alice Junge · 04-04-2008 03:36AM #1

Favourite band that sold out, or band that sold out and you got into them and then people gave out cos they sold out, band you like cos they sold out, whose sold out, me? no!!!

rowlandbrowner · 04-04-2008 09:11AM

what defines a sell out exactly?

BurnsCarpenter · 04-04-2008 10:17AM

rowlandbrowner wrote: »

what defines a sell out exactly?

That's sellout talk if ever I heard it!

lordgoat · 04-04-2008 10:33AM

Well a good few of my favourite bands have sold out. REM sold out the ******* last year, and Wilco vicar street.

Sinfonia · 04-04-2008 12:35PM

rowlandbrowner wrote: »

what defines a sell out exactly?

Anybody involved in the arts that makes money

Creamy Goodness · 04-04-2008 12:36PM

biffy clyro

imo a band sells out the second they change their sound to suit the record companies demands.

Bubs101 · 04-04-2008 01:30PM

Any band leader who sells out the rest of his band to try and make more money. Axl Rose for one. Also ridiculous amount of celebrity endorsements or letting their music be used for everything

bluefinger · 04-04-2008 01:53PM

pixies, though at least they were upfront about it.

Notorious · 04-04-2008 02:13PM

Bubs101 wrote: »

Any band leader who sells out the rest of his band to try and make more money. Axl Rose for one. Also ridiculous amount of celebrity endorsements or letting their music be used for everything

Just because they use their music in adverts doesn't make a band 'sell out'. If they're good enough to create a piece of music that can also sell shoes, then fair play to them.
The whole talk about bands being 'sell outs' is rubbish. I mean since everyone throws the term around so freely, then signing a record deal must make the band that play in the local youth club a sell out?! Would you all prefer that the band stayed playing locally instead of making that record deal that brought the music out to the world, and not just their homegrown fans? What if bands like the Beatles say, just stuck with the local route around Liverpool's clubs and pubs instead of signing with Parlophone. Surely most of you who generously throw out the 'sell out' label, would lay it on the Beatles for signing that deal?

bluefinger · 04-04-2008 02:30PM

hi notorious
not really one for labeling a band a sell out myself, but it's not necessarily a perjorative term. could the term sell-out be ascribed to bands that place financial interests before musical/artistic vision?

TelePaul · 04-04-2008 03:08PM

Dylan, Bob. Though it was the best move he ever made.

JC 2K3 · 04-04-2008 03:10PM

Cremo wrote: »

imo a band sells out the second they change their sound to suit the record companies demands.

That's pretty much it.

Dudess · 04-04-2008 03:22PM

Definitely. And when a once exciting band's sound becomes bland and middle-of-the-road as can be... although often that's not really "selling out", it's simply "becoming middle-aged".

Prime example: New Order. But New Order were born in the 50s - they're not gonna be the force they were in the 80s. And considering the briliance of their output during that decade, I'll forgive them.

Then again Sonic Youth, Nick Cave, Morrissey... actually age isn't an excuse!

rowlandbrowner · 04-04-2008 04:02PM

i guess the idea of the starving artist is more attractive to the listener than the performer

Rollo Tamasi · 04-04-2008 06:33PM

Snowpatrol.
First two albums are amazing. Then they made a third album which sounded liked a turd album. Then they made a forth album which sounded like their turd album. Turdy sellouts.

slickmcvic · 05-04-2008 10:51AM

counting crows.....never really liked the band but that shrek track thery did?!.......absolute SELLOUTS!!

Notorious · 05-04-2008 11:15AM

slickmcvic wrote: »

counting crows.....never really liked the band but that shrek track thery did?!.......absolute SELLOUTS!!

I'm not a Counting Crows fan, but wouldn't that track have been picked to be added to the musical score by the people behind Shrek? Or was the song recorded with Shrek in mind? I'd imagine it wasn't the latter, but I could be wrong.

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

Snowpatrol.
First two albums are amazing...Then they made a third album which sounded liked a turd album.

I dunno about you guys but I wouldn't call a Snow Patrol album amazing. Catchy and repetitive maybe... I mean definitely. Again I'm not a fan, but are you saying that making bad follow up albums means they've sold out?

bluefinger wrote:

hi notorious
not really one for labeling a band a sell out myself, but it's not necessarily a perjorative term. could the term sell-out be ascribed to bands that place financial interests before musical/artistic vision?

Yeah I suppose thats what selling out would be. Dudess makes a good point, but as for the example, New Order was formed in the 80s about five years after Joy Division. They released some great stuff between 1980-1990 ("Power, Corruption & Lies" & "Republic"), then in 2001 they came up with "Get Ready", which I'd put in as another excellent album. They never sold out??

As for Bob Dylan, when the heck did he sell out?!

Dudess · 05-04-2008 11:42AM

Notorious wrote: »

Yeah I suppose thats what selling out would be. Dudess makes a good point, but as for the example, New Order was formed in the 80s about five years after Joy Division. They released some great stuff between 1980-1990 ("Power, Corruption & Lies" & "Republic"), then in 2001 they came up with "Get Ready", which I'd put in as another excellent album. They never sold out??

They got bland. You're right: 1980 to 1990 were their genius years (well to '89 more specifically). Republic was actually out in 1993 and, apart from a few good tracks, was a huge disappointment compared to previous efforts. Get Ready, although introduced by the phenomenal Crystal (vintage New Order) is one of the most disappointing listens of my life. Have to say I returned it to the shop. And Waiting For The Siren's Call is even blander. But no, I don't actually think they sold out, their sound just got more sanitised and it's doubtful it was a conscious decision - very unlikely the were pandering to the record company. Stubbornness is something for which New Order are renowned.
Becoming sh1t isn't the same as selling out - not that I think New Order are sh1t. Well I just couldn't bring myself to say that...

But Counting Crows - they probably just got sh1t. Whatever about the Shrek thing, that fukking Joni Mitchell cover - I die a little inside every time I hear it...

Attractive Nun · 05-04-2008 08:39PM

I think talk of people 'selling out' is usually pretty stupid. I have no problem with people wanting to make money from their music - it's a job as much as it is anything else to musicians. That said, there is definitely a 'moral' - if hazy - difference between making music for commercial success and making music for the sake of music.

For me, I'd agree with the above sentiments. Certainly, if an band is willing to edit the content of their album based on a record company's demands - then I'd lose interest in wanting to hear it. Ideally, an album should be written and recorded with no thought for how commercially successful it might be. Musicians (at least for me to be interested in them) should try to do something with their music; evolve, experiment, say what they want to say. Once an album has been made in this way, I really couldn't care what bands do to promote it or whatever.

As a side note, though, I don't at all approve of musicians allowing their music to be used in ads or whatever. Hearing a song in an ad inevitably makes you associate that song with whatever emotions/memories/ciders raised by that ad - it takes away from the music IMO and genuine musicians shouldn't tolerate that.

Notorious · 06-04-2008 10:57AM

Dudess wrote:

Republic was actually out in 1993 and, apart from a few good tracks, was a huge disappointment compared to previous efforts.

Sorry, I meant to say "Technique" instead of "Republic". I haven't actually listened to "Republic" in its entirety; only heard the tracks on the "Singles" album. Maybe I'll leave it for the moment...

Dudess wrote:

Get Ready, although introduced by the phenomenal Crystal (vintage New Order) is one of the most disappointing listens of my life. Have to say I returned it to the shop.

Really? I liked that album myself, it was a change from the usual New Order style but I thought the guest appearances of Billy Corgan and Gillespie were interesting. I was almost surprised when I heard their voices.

Dudess wrote:

But Counting Crows - they probably just got sh1t. Whatever about the Shrek thing, that fukking Joni Mitchell cover - I die a little inside every time I hear it...

Haha well said! I generally follow the "theres no such thing as 'bad' music, its what you like and dislike" thinking, but I'll make an exception here... and for Snow Patrol.

Bubs101 · 07-04-2008 05:23PM

How could I forget. One of my favourite bands are the biggest sell outs ever.

KISS.

garth-marenghi · 07-04-2008 10:29PM

was it one of the Manics who said that you have sold out once you release an album or words to that effect?

rowlandbrowner · 09-04-2008 01:17AM

i guess robert johnson was the ultimate sell out. exchanging his mortal soul for sucess makes doing a song on a pixar movie soundtrack seem pale in comparison.

dbs_sailor · 09-04-2008 07:03AM

Bubs101 wrote: »

How could I forget. One of my favourite bands are the biggest sell outs ever.

KISS.

haha, that implies that at some stage they weren't sellouts. the stuff they peddle now is ridiculous - kiss koffins, $3 "meet the band" passes etc..

nevertheless, i'm going to paris to see them this year? why?? WHY???

BECAUSE I WANTED THE BEST....

and i want to take the piss

KnifeWRENCH · 09-04-2008 06:05PM

garth-marenghi wrote: »

was it one of the Manics who said that you have sold out once you release an album or words to that effect?

Ah,it was probably Nicky Wire. He also said he hates Arcade Fire because they "brought indie music to the mainstream".
(On a side note, If I could get away with murder, my first target would be Nicky Wire. The amount of s**t that arrogant talentless prat talks is unreal.)
It may have been Richey Edwards who said it. But since he was loonytunes anyway, I wouldn't take anything he said seriously.
(I suppose I'm sounding harsh and bitter...but I really really hate Manic St Preachers)

ANYWAY BACK ON TOPIC: In my opinion, the notion of a band "selling out" is usually applied by music snobs who can't stand the fact that their precious obscure "underground" bands have become successful.
The Gossip were labelled sellouts just because "Standing In The Way of Control" became successful, and people were suddenly interested in Beth Ditto.
The White Stripes (one of my fav. bands) were considered a respectable alternative act. Then "Seven Nation Army" comes out - BOOM! Suddenly, they're mainstream sellouts, apparenlty. Ridiculous.:mad:
An example from a different genre - Nelly Furtado. When Loose came out she was instantly labelled a sellout. No one seemed to think that, just perhaps, she just wanted to try something different and experiment with new sounds.

Driver 8 · 09-04-2008 06:12PM

I'd agree with the above poster. Cries of sell-out almost always stem from an artist moving outside the box that their audience is used to them being in, and the negative reaction is magnified if this move attracts a bigger audience than previously. Indie fans are the worst offenders, usually feeling they have "ownership" of the band in some way. Usually, the cries of "sell out" are laughable (Dylan going electric, anyone?).

To respond to some of the bands mentioned, imo-
Snow Patrol: No. They were a dreary student-indie band with awful teenage poetry lyrics before Eyes Open. Now they just sell more
Counting Crows: No. I think their Big Yellow Taxi cover is overproduced, but nothing more. Anyone who can't enjoy Accidentally in Love for the shamelessly poppy song it is needs to take themselves less seriously
Nelly Furtado: No. That said, I hated Loose, but that's down to personal preference.

Never once been convinced by a "they've sold out!" argument, I'm afraid

JC 2K3 · 09-04-2008 06:42PM

I've always found the "anyone who calls a band sellouts are elitist snobs" attitude to be rather elitist in itself.

KnifeWRENCH · 09-04-2008 10:25PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I've always found the "anyone who calls a band sellouts are elitist snobs" attitude to be rather elitist in itself.

I don't think anyone who says that are elitist snobs, but I find that it's true in the majority of cases.
I hate people who think a band has lost it's credibility just because the general public pays them more attention.
There are probably some cases where bands do sell out...but I can't think of any off hand.

To Whoever mentioned Bob Dylan - he could never be accused of being a sellout. He's a contrary musician who always does, and always will do, his own thing. I doubt commercial success means anything to him.

As for KISS - were they ever meant to be taken seriously?:rolleyes:

red_ice · 09-04-2008 10:32PM

Cremo wrote: »

biffy clyro

imo a band sells out the second they change their sound to suit the record companies demands.

biffy? Sell out? Jesus thats utter bs cremo. Simon wrote the guts of that puzzle 3/4 years ago when his mother died. They had other material at the time they were working on and decided to put it off because of where they were as a band. read up on things!

Bubs101 · 10-04-2008 11:49PM

square_igloo wrote: »

As for KISS - were they ever meant to be taken seriously?:rolleyes:

There's somebody who has never listened to Destroyer, Love Gun, Al!ve 1 and IV and dressed to kill. All quality albums particularly Destroyer

BurnsCarpenter · 11-04-2008 08:30AM

Notorious wrote: »

I dunno about you guys but I wouldn't call a Snow Patrol album amazing. Catchy and repetitive maybe... I mean definitely. Again I'm not a fan, but are you saying that making bad follow up albums means they've sold out?

I don't have the early albums but I've heard they're decent enough. I think the selling out was their transformation into Coldplay-lite.

sell outs!!!

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