God is dead. Nietzsche finally proved right.

humanji · 06-04-2008 03:27PM

Dudess wrote: »

Re the thread title: did Heston ever actually play the role of God in a film? I know he played Moses. Is that kinda the same thing?

Not unless you misread the bible.

Adam · 06-04-2008 03:32PM

Beanstalk wrote: »

I've got a weird sense of deja vu reading this thread, i feel like i've ben-hur before....

RIP

T_T

Rovi · 06-04-2008 03:35PM

Dudess wrote: »

Re the thread title: did Heston ever actually play the role of God in a film? I know he played Moses. Is that kinda the same thing?

Apparently, he played the role (uncredited) in that great Paul Hogan classic, Almost an Angel.

daveirl · 06-04-2008 03:40PM

This post has been deleted.

Dudess · 06-04-2008 04:02PM

Well conservatives are more likely to be staunch defenders of free market economics.

Anyhoo, in light of recent events, I feel this is appropriate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETqTO2GaI3U

Manic Moran · 06-04-2008 04:12PM

Then he switched to Republican, voiced opposition to Affirmative Action, and of course all that gun malarkey

Opposition to Affirmative Action does not automatically equal racism or support of segregation. I view opposition as 'give everyone an equal chance regardless of race' which fits in nicely with the concept of supporting the abandonment of segregation. We've had this discussion before.

However my feelings for him are colored by his NRA involvement

I hope this causes NRA to crumble somewhat.

What's with the NRA hatred here?

Granted, Ted Nugent was probably a bad move, but there is nothing wrong with the NRA itself. They're a single-issue lobby oriented on a Constitutional right, just the same as the First Ammendment Foundation protects the right to free speech. You people make it sound like the NRA is some sort of evil organisation on the same level as the KKK or NAMBLA.

NTM

Davei141 · 06-04-2008 04:20PM

Dudess wrote: »

Christ, I was just talking about him last night - quoting the "get your paws off me" line, then moving on to talking about Stop The Planet of the Apes, I Want to Get Off! (the POTA musical in The Simpsons starring Troy McClure).

Man, I get freaked when stuff like that happens. I was talking about Johnny Cash the night before he died, and I was talking about Nina Simone a few hours before she died.

Do I have weird powers...?

Try talking in third person perhaps...

Profiler · 06-04-2008 04:31PM

A mate of mine just sent me this link... ssoo funny!

Stump (with the irresistable force) - Charlton Heston

As for the dislike of the NRA, it is because for them access to guns has no bearing on the number of gun deaths in the USA. They believe that there would MORE deaths in the US if the gun laws were not as liberal as they are. So they think No Guns = More deaths...

Capt'n Midnight · 06-04-2008 04:46PM

Dudess wrote:

Was reading up on Heston: he was such a liberal up to the late 60s - voted Democrat, spoke out against racial segregation (including picketing one of his own movies that was segregated) and was actively involved in the Civil Rights Movement, opposed Vietnam...

Then he switched to Republican, voiced opposition to Affirmative Action, and of course all that gun malarkey.

Gotta hate it when people do annoying stuff like that.

Blame the lizards.

Collie D · 06-04-2008 05:06PM

He was never a great actor, always thought he was a bit wooden but I did enjoy his epics like Ben Hur and The Ten Commandments etc. and the line "Get you paws off me, you damn dirty ape" was a classic. The remake could never be the same without it.

My opinions were changed when I learned he was head of the NRA and even more so after watching Bowling for Columbine, even if Michale Moore is not exactly renowned for his non-biased movies.

Still, I'm sure my Nanna will be sad

The_Minister · 06-04-2008 05:28PM

Dudess wrote: »

Well conservatives are more likely to be staunch defenders of free market economics.

Actually, in most countries, conservatives believe in subsidies, barriers and tariffs. Liberal economics as a hallmark of conservatism is pretty much just an American thing.

Dudess · 06-04-2008 05:49PM

Sorry yeah, I meant American conservatives

Manic Moran · 06-04-2008 06:13PM

Profiler wrote: »

As for the dislike of the NRA, it is because for them access to guns has no bearing on the number of gun deaths in the USA. They believe that there would MORE deaths in the US if the gun laws were not as liberal as they are. So they think No Guns = More deaths...

Some of us happen to believe that if there was a little greater social responsibility, less of a gang culture, and oh, perhaps somewhat better parenting, there would be fewer gun deaths in the country regardless of how many people own firearms for legitimate reasons.

NTM

Profiler · 06-04-2008 06:42PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Some of us happen to believe that if there was a little greater social responsibility, less of a gang culture, and oh, perhaps somewhat better parenting, there would be fewer gun deaths in the country regardless of how many people own firearms for legitimate reasons.

NTM

This is the issues I am getting at.

There is an acknowledgment that the society in the US has it's problems yet the NRA would have you believe that until those issues are resolved Gun Control is a bad thing? I can't get my head around that?

It's like having a teenage who can't drive and rather then telling them to stay away from the car until they can show they are responsible, you instead fight for their right to drive a Hummer? I mean if they are going to lose it why not give them the capacity to lose it big time and take out more than one person ???

Manic Moran · 06-04-2008 08:28PM

It's like having a teenage who can't drive and rather then telling them to stay away from the car until they can show they are responsible, you instead fight for their right to drive a Hummer? I mean if they are going to lose it why not give them the capacity to lose it big time and take out more than one person ???

Before you give someone the keys to a Hummer (or any other vehicle) there are some basic minima which are required. Think about when you first started driving: You had to be of a certain age for your Provisional, maybe have an eyesight test or a written test. You learned under the supervision of a more responsible adult, who probably owned the vehicle you were learning in.

Then, when you're ten years older, nobody thinks twice when you go down to the local Land Rover dealer and buy an SUV. Yet if your analogy is to apply, you would submit that nobody should be entitled to have an SUV for fear that someone who is young and irresponsible may have one and misuse it.

The same for firearms. There are certain minimum requirements before you can legally buy a firearm such as age or a background check. (The NRA has no issues with these requirements: They don't want to see firearms in the hands of criminals or incompetents either.) Responsible users usually start out at a tender young age taught by adults, and usually that adult provides the firearm to train on, just like a car.

But why should I, in my thirties with ten years military service so far and, I would venture to say, fairly responsible, be told that I am not to be permitted to own a firearm for fear that someone else I have never met, with lesser ideals of responsibility, may misuse one? That strikes me a lot of collective punishment, restricting the innocent as well as the guilty.

Besides, there's that other small little item of the Constitution. You have no Constitutional Right in the US to drive a car, but the second item in the Bill of Rights contains the phrase "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". The Constitution is there to prohibit the tyranny of the majority. The first amendment means that no matter how unpopular what you are saying is, you have the right to say it. The fourth says that no matter how much the government may want to eavesdrop or search your properties, due process must be followed even if the reason the police want to search your house is for the common good. All are important, you cannot pick and choose any one item of the Constitution to enforce, and one to disregard.

NTM

Earthhorse · 06-04-2008 08:39PM

It's like anything we restrict in society Manic Moran; we believe the restriction does more good than harm. Bear in mind that most of the posters on this site are Irish; we've grown up in a world where the idea of firearms ownership isn't just foreign, it's completely alien to us.

But look, this thread is about Charlton Heston and Dudess's newly revealed ability to pop people's brains from a distance (which I am all for legalising by the way, once she's over the age of eighteen).

If you want to know why so many people will post their distaste about the NRA I think you have the answer in the first paragraph of this post.

Rovi · 06-04-2008 08:46PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

It's like anything we restrict in society Manic Moran; we believe the restriction does more good than harm. Bear in mind that most of the posters on this site are Irish; we've grown up in a world where the idea of firearms ownership isn't just foreign, it's completely alien to us.

Just as a point of information, there are approximately a quarter of a million legally held civilian firearms in this country; the concept isn't completely alien.

Manic Moran · 06-04-2008 08:54PM

Even more so, the Irish national shooting squad used to be the best in the world back in the 19th century.

The average Irish aversion to firearms really only goes back to the 1970s, after they became highly restricted and thus a mystery to most people. Unfamiliarity breeds contempt.

It's like anything we restrict in society Manic Moran; we believe the restriction does more good than harm

The Framers of the Constitution believe the restriction would do more harm than good. As does the majority of people today. (Just look at the relative submissions in the recent Supreme Court case: 31 States said 'inidividuals can have firearms', 5 said 'no'. Over 300 Congresscritters said 'yes', about 30 said 'no'.)

we've grown up in a world where the idea of firearms ownership isn't just foreign, it's completely alien to us.

Which is precisely my point of contention. They're condemning Heston for being associated with an organisation they don't understand, and for the most part don't want to understand.

NTM

Profiler · 06-04-2008 09:24PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Before you give someone the keys to a Hummer (or any other vehicle) there are some basic minima which are required. Think about when you first started driving: You had to be of a certain age for your Provisional, maybe have an eyesight test or a written test. You learned under the supervision of a more responsible adult, who probably owned the vehicle you were learning in.

Then, when you're ten years older, nobody thinks twice when you go down to the local Land Rover dealer and buy an SUV. Yet if your analogy is to apply, you would submit that nobody should be entitled to have an SUV for fear that someone who is young and irresponsible may have one and misuse it.

The same for firearms. There are certain minimum requirements before you can legally buy a firearm such as age or a background check. (The NRA has no issues with these requirements: They don't want to see firearms in the hands of criminals or incompetents either.) Responsible users usually start out at a tender young age taught by adults, and usually that adult provides the firearm to train on, just like a car.

But why should I, in my thirties with ten years military service so far and, I would venture to say, fairly responsible, be told that I am not to be permitted to own a firearm for fear that someone else I have never met, with lesser ideals of responsibility, may misuse one? That strikes me a lot of collective punishment, restricting the innocent as well as the guilty.

Besides, there's that other small little item of the Constitution. You have no Constitutional Right in the US to drive a car, but the second item in the Bill of Rights contains the phrase "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". The Constitution is there to prohibit the tyranny of the majority. The first amendment means that no matter how unpopular what you are saying is, you have the right to say it. The fourth says that no matter how much the government may want to eavesdrop or search your properties, due process must be followed even if the reason the police want to search your house is for the common good. All are important, you cannot pick and choose any one item of the Constitution to enforce, and one to disregard.

NTM

Sorry but you missed the analogy I was getting at (but that is probably my fault)

The teenager is America. I don't think America as a nation is responsible enough for the gun laws it currently has.

Until such time as America can sort out it's societies failings then I can not see the right to have semi automatic weapons and amour piercing bullets as in anyway correct.

It wasn't me! · 06-04-2008 09:46PM

Profiler wrote: »

Sorry but you missed the analogy I was getting at (but that is probably my fault)

The teenager is America. I don't think America as a nation is responsible enough for the gun laws it currently has.

Until such time as America can sort out it's societies failings then I can not see the right to have semi automatic weapons and amour piercing bullets as in anyway correct.

I'm going to go ahead and call bull on this. You're saying *a nation*, not an individual, but a nation, of what, 300 million people (?) is irresponsible? How many have you met? Tell you what, if you've met two thirds, we'll call that a respectable number and allow you to generalise based on that. So, met 200 million Americans?

And scare words like "semi-automatic" are, frankly, just silly scare words ill-informed police forces and politicians throw at civilians who know no better to hype something up, for no reason I can possibly understand. We have a huge number of legally held firearms in this country too, and plenty of them are semi-automatic. People are scared of things they don't know. There's nothing to be scared of.

Voodu Child · 06-04-2008 10:29PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

But look, this thread is about Charlton Heston and Dudess's newly revealed ability to pop people's brains from a distance (which I am all for legalising by the way, once she's over the age of eighteen).

+ 1
All this pro-gun bollocks and quoting of Supreme Court cases is way off-topic.

Profiler · 06-04-2008 10:30PM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I'm going to go ahead and call bull on this. You're saying *a nation*, not an individual, but a nation, of what, 300 million people (?) is irresponsible? How many have you met? Tell you what, if you've met two thirds, we'll call that a respectable number and allow you to generalise based on that. So, met 200 million Americans?

And scare words like "semi-automatic" are, frankly, just silly scare words ill-informed police forces and politicians throw at civilians who know no better to hype something up, for no reason I can possibly understand. We have a huge number of legally held firearms in this country too, and plenty of them are semi-automatic. People are scared of things they don't know. There's nothing to be scared of.

Well it was an analogy and without going too much off topic, as a nation America is as far as I am concerned a teenager. I don't need to meet all 300 million American's to see how they act as a nation.

Again we come back to the issue of availability and how pro gun people fail to see a correlation between having a gun and shooting "X" number of your fellow high school students/college mates/co workers and NOT having a gun and NOT shooting "X" fellow high school students/college mates/co workers.

You can dress it up all you want but the fact remains the free availability of guns in the US costs lives everyday.

Look at Switzerland civilians highest gun ownership in the world (I think) liberal gun laws and yet none of the massacres that the US sees.

Manic Moran · 07-04-2008 01:32AM

Yet you would still deprive me and almost 304million people of our ability to happily go about our business because of the actions of some 9,000 criminals?

Can you not see how disproportionate it is? Apparently four out of ten road fatalities in Ireland are alcohol related. Why not ban alcohol for the other 3 million people?

But look, this thread is about Charlton Heston

It is precisely this sort of 'we know better than you' with regards to firearms attitude that Heston fought while heading the NRA. Yet people will detract from him for it.

NTM

Dudess · 07-04-2008 01:52AM

Earthhorse wrote: »

Dudess's newly revealed ability to pop people's brains from a distance

And there's not much a clampdown on gun control can do to stop that.

Profiler · 07-04-2008 02:00AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Yet you would still deprive me and almost 304million people of our ability to happily go about our business because of the actions of some 9,000 criminals?

Can you not see how disproportionate it is? Apparently four out of ten road fatalities in Ireland are alcohol related. Why not ban alcohol for the other 3 million people?

It is precisely this sort of 'we know better than you' with regards to firearms attitude that Heston fought while heading the NRA. Yet people will detract from him for it.

NTM

Bad choice of counter argument as we in Ireland acknowledge there is a problem with drink driving and have already reduced the limit for permitted alcohol in the system.

Moreover there is nobody out there advocating the Alcohol be made more freely available because to do so will reduce the level of drink driving, which is exactly the argument the NRA makes ("more guns = more safety" is pretty much their outlook)

As I see it until such time as the US can come to terms with the fact that it is a inherently violent society and seek to remedy that then it's current gun laws are wrong and are as much at fault for deaths as the "9000 criminals"

doonothing · 07-04-2008 02:36AM

Beanstalk wrote: »

I've got a weird sense of deja vu reading this thread, i feel like i've ben-hur before....

RIP

baha

xzanti · 07-04-2008 08:54AM

Sherifu wrote: »

A great actor. Ben Hur.

Or Ben Whore as a radio dj pronounced it yesterday much to my amusement... Yeah doesn't take much..

Capt'n Midnight · 07-04-2008 08:49PM

Manic Moran wrote:

Yet you would still deprive me and almost 304million people of our ability to happily go about our business because of the actions of some 9,000 criminals?

what % of black males have been in prison / same for hispanic ones - here is a clue , it's not 9,000

The Framers of the Constitution believe the restriction would do more harm than good. As does the majority of people today. (Just look at the relative submissions in the recent Supreme Court case: 31 States said 'inidividuals can have firearms', 5 said 'no'. Over 300 Congresscritters said 'yes', about 30 said 'no'.)

these are the same Framers who did not give universal franchise.
the same guy's who reckoned that the guy who finished second should become vice-president (not 100% on that one )
they said that the militia should have the right to bare arms,
The Militia not a militia, not any militia, not individual citizens just the official militia that was disbanded a very long time ago.

As for banning Alcohol, above a certain level it's already banned for motorists and cyclists. Very few people get run over by drunk pedestrians , but you can still get done for being drunk in a public place. What's it like being drunk ? Ask a glass of water !

Why did Charlton Heston, living in a gated mansion with guards, need to keep guns?
Maybe he was an inverstor.

Fr Ted wrote:

Funny how you get more right-wing as you get older!

What Not To Do With Charlton Heston

* Don't let his people go.
* Get your damn dirty hands on him (applies to only if you're an ape)
* Turn his friends into Soylent Green
* Turn his "fine piece of black ass" girlfriend into a zombie
* Get into his home and try to kill him (applies only if you're a zombie or Michael Moore)
* Piss him off.
* Forget to buy him Hannah Montana tickets.

Dudess · 07-04-2008 09:08PM

Lol :d

thelordofcheese · 07-04-2008 09:49PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

You people make it sound like the NRA is some sort of evil organisation on the same level as the KKK or NAMBLA.

The KKK or NAMBLA with guns.....

God is dead. Nietzsche finally proved right.

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