207th Merseyside Derby

mike65 · 31-03-2008 10:09AM

Should mentioned Riise, thats the most effective I've seen him in ages. Lucas needs to learn that the Prem is not the place for strolling around.

Mike.

PHB · 31-03-2008 10:45AM

Riise was very good yesterday actually, really impressive.
Surely Gerrard or Srketle should have gotten MOM?
Goalscorer always gets the plaudits

zAbbo · 31-03-2008 10:51AM

PHB wrote: »

Riise was very good yesterday actually, really impressive.
Surely Gerrard or Srketle should have gotten MOM?
Goalscorer always gets the plaudits

Riise is a solid LB, especially against a team with no interest in attacking the wings, and who played one up front.

But how bad was Lucas, Anytime I've seen him he's been woeful, it didn't help when SG give him a bollocking for a poor pass, but all Lucas does is instantly pass the ball back as soon as he receives it, he's nowhere near premeirship speed and needs to kick on and get himself involved a bit.

I guess it's one of those things, you've got to give him games to get him adjusted, and next season we should start to see how good he is.

PHB · 31-03-2008 10:53AM

Lucas did show elements of his game that were top class, two passes to Babel I think in the first half spring to mind. He instantly passes the ball because he's Brazilian, it's all about one touch passing. He'll slowly adjust his game, but he seems to be having more difficulty to do it than Anderson, but that's largely imo because Anderson has a strong physical presence which always helps in the premiership. I'd say in 2-3 years the guy will be a very good player.

zAbbo · 31-03-2008 10:59AM

The game or two I saw him play in Brazil, he played more heads up football, I think he's afraid of someone clattering into the back of him, so he instantly passes it backwards or sideways.

Right now he reminds me of John Barne's latter days in midfield, when all he done was hit a 5 yard pass to Redknapp.

It could take a few seasons, but there's a risk that it doesn't work out

leninbenjamin · 31-03-2008 01:45PM

PHB wrote: »

but that's largely imo because Anderson has a strong physical presence which always helps in the premiership.

not to mention the fact Anderson has been in Europe for 18 months more than Lucas.

kryogen · 31-03-2008 01:57PM

leninbenjamin wrote: »

not to mention the fact Anderson has been in Europe for 18 months more than Lucas.

ahem, where he was out with a broken leg for most of that time.....

leninbenjamin · 31-03-2008 02:32PM

kryogen wrote: »

ahem, where he was out with a broken leg for most of that time.....

doesn't matter. he will have been around the training grounds, and been exposed to the different type of football, coaches, personalities. he will have had more time to adjust to living away from home, and adapting to new culture etc. It's not just first team football that forms the adjustment process you know...

herbieflowers · 31-03-2008 02:35PM

I don't think Anderson has been the overwhelming success that people make out, oftentimes he looks tired and off-the-pace. Certainly he's influenced games and looked a real prospect and physically he's well suited but suffers in many the same ways as Lucas. It's futile to compare the two at this stage of their careers, you can't judge how a player is going to develop from their first season in the PL.

PHB · 31-03-2008 02:37PM

Perhaps, but to be honest, Portugal is like Brazil, same language similar culture similar style of football. Manchester and English football is not at all like Portugal, just like its not like Brazil

Also, as I understand, while his family moved with him to Portugal, they did not move with him to Manchester.

Andersons plaudits came as a result of his defensive performances, more than his attacking performances. His physical presence made this possible to be honest. His passing and driving runs from deep god him good praise, but his ball winning was what won over most United fans. It's no surprise that since Scholes has returned, and Carrick has returned to form, that Anderson has suffered, because he's not playing as a part of a 2 man midfield anymore, he's playing as a support striker/3rd central midfielder. He's having to adjust again, and that's tough for anyone. Also he's quite clearly wrecked.

Third_Echelon · 31-03-2008 04:40PM

Everton did look a bit off. Defence and midfield was alright. We just couldn't link it up to Yakubu who looked a bit lost on his own up-front and he was starting to get frustrated.

Not having Cahill, Johnson, Anichebe or Vaughan up there with Yak showed how thread-bare our squad is when we get hit with injuries.

When Osman and Arteta got pushed up further in the second half, we started to create more chances, but we didn't put enough pressure on Reina from free-kicks, corners, crosses etc where he is at his weakest.

Liverpool deserved the win overall. They did enough to win it. You only need to give Torres one chance and he will win a game for you.

4th spot is looking more like liverpool's, but we aren't out of it yet. There is still a bit of football to be played with some key fixtures for both teams coming up. It's now liverpool's to lose...

IrishMike · 01-04-2008 01:42PM

PHB wrote: »

Lucas did show elements of his game that were top class, two passes to Babel I think in the first half spring to mind. He instantly passes the ball because he's Brazilian, it's all about one touch passing. He'll slowly adjust his game, but he seems to be having more difficulty to do it than Anderson, but that's largely imo because Anderson has a strong physical presence which always helps in the premiership. I'd say in 2-3 years the guy will be a very good player.

I honestly wonder sometimes what games you watch PHB:eek:
Lucas is an average player at best so far, he may develop into a good player
but he will never ever be anywhere near a world class central midfielder.
He showed absolutly nothing in the Everton game yet again.
One pass in the first 5 mins when there was no one within 15 yards of him.
Not exactly an earth shattering contribution.
He was at sea for the entire match, his passin was truely awful despite
Liverpool owning the midfield. He really cant tackle and he has no pace.
It doesnt matter what he did at underage, if it did Neil Mellor would be
playing up front because of his amazing underage record.
Because he is Brazilian doesnt mean a damn thing.
Veron was Argentinan and was one of the best midfielders in the world
before he came to the premiership but his passing was too slow and he
didnt have any noticable pace, lucas is the same.
He will get another 18 months, will get a few handy brazil caps and then will
be sold off at a small profit. Yet another player that promised so much but
was a big damn flop.

Melion · 01-04-2008 01:48PM

Can i have tomorrow nights lotto numbers Mike?

Mr Alan · 01-04-2008 01:49PM

IrishMike wrote: »

Yet another player that promised so much but
was a big damn flop.

do you give all transfers and young players that amount of time to adjust and get used to a new continent,culture,team etc?

shambolic to be honest. your post that is. not Lucas.

Personally, i've seen enough positives from Lucas' game to think that he could turn into an excellent excellent player.

and lets not forget, if it wasnt for Phil Neville, he'd be the lad that won us in the derby in the last minute at the start of the season

IrishMike · 01-04-2008 02:35PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

do you give all transfers and young players that amount of time to adjust and get used to a new continent,culture,team etc?

shambolic to be honest. your post that is. not Lucas.

Personally, i've seen enough positives from Lucas' game to think that he could turn into an excellent excellent player.

May i ask what they are?
Everytime i see him (which is a lot before you ask) he is a huge let down.
Passing is poor, takes far too long on the ball, poor workrate, lack of technique and has no pace.
After that unless he starts scoring wonder goals or ups his workrate 500% i dont see what the hell ye base this huge hope on.

Mr Alan · 01-04-2008 02:37PM

performance when he came on in the derby at the start of the season?
Goal against Havant and Waterlooville?
At LEAST 2 cracking passes at the weekend.
Being thrown into the game at the San Siro, and not looking out of his depth.

PHB · 01-04-2008 02:39PM

Hey, I'm not arguing that Lucas has been good this season, far from it. I'm surprised he hasn't made more of an impact, but he had too many midfielders ahead of him.
But he has touches of quality, little things, like timing of runs, making space, clever passes, just little things.

p.s. His record isn't proven at underage level, its proven at a Brazilian league level, much much much much much higher standards than the reserve leagues.

dc69 · 01-04-2008 02:47PM

IrishMike wrote: »

May i ask what they are?
Everytime i see him (which is a lot before you ask) he is a huge let down.
Passing is poor, takes far too long on the ball, poor workrate, lack of technique and has no pace.
After that unless he starts scoring wonder goals or ups his workrate 500% i dont see what the hell ye base this huge hope on.

I think your being too harsh,how do you know he wont be the best midfielder in the world?

I thought he was piss poor against everton but he passed 2 long pases to babel and they were pin point.

As someone else said,he plays like a brazilian and passes the ball straight back,he needs someone to tell him to give him encouragement to go foward and seriously think about the amount of time he has on the ball,they should be trying to take him in fabregas style direction.

I read up about his kid the minute we signed him,most people think he is a defensive midfielder.He is an out and out cm midfielder,though can play box to box.He played very similar to gerrard when at gremio.So its not a case of alonso or masch being in his way,its stevie.I will reserve judgement until next year when steveie gets injured for a match and they put Lucas in his place.

PHB · 01-04-2008 02:53PM

Rafa did that once at the first Everton game, it worked a treat.

207th Merseyside Derby

Comments