134 year old law used to seize hundreds of thousands euro worth of alcohol

31-03-2008 09:36AM #1

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardai-use-old-law-to-seize-up-to-8364200000-in-stock-from-nightclub-1332913.html

GARDAI invoked an ancient and rarely-used statute to seize the entire stock of a nightclub that was allegedly operating without a current liquor licence.

Patrons arriving at the Golden Grill in Letterkenny, Co Donegal, on Saturday night looked on in shock as gardai loaded hundreds of thousands of euro worth of stock from the premises into vans and drove it away.

The raid was carried out on foot of a warrant obtained under Section 24 of the 1874 Licensing Act(Ireland) which empowers gardai to seize liquor which they believe is being sold without licence.

The penalty for a first time offence under the statute, which legal experts say is rarely invoked, is a £4 fine.

Up to 15 gardai descended on the premises on the Port Road in Letterkenny at around 9pm on Saturday night and commenced the operation which took several hours to complete.

Between €150,000 and €200,000 of stock was impounded in the raid.

It is expected that it will remain closed until the matter, which is due to come before Letterkenny Circuit Court on Tuesday, is resolved.

There was no garda available for comment about the operation last night.

Gardai waged war on nightclubs in Letterkenny and Donegal last month a when they objected to the 2.30am exemption for the month of March and sought a 1.30am closing time instead.

During the court hearing, Letterkenny District Superintendent Vincent O'Brien showed a video of street mayhem on Letterkenny's Port Road which he said was typical of what gardai were dealing with every weekend.

A compromise was finally reached when Judge John O'Hagan proposed a 2am closing time for the month which was agreed by most nightclub proprietors.

A legal source told the Irish Independent last night that gardai across the country were clamping down on expired licences in respect of nightclubs and public houses but that such raids as happened in Letterkenny at the weekend were "extremely rare".

- Anita Guidera

The gardai seem determined to distroy the nightclub industry in Letterkenny it seems.

MrJoeSoap · 31-03-2008 09:37AM

salonfire wrote: »

The gardai seem determined to distroy the nightclub industry in Letterkenny it seems.

Or upholding the law, one or the other.

31-03-2008 09:47AM

If they were operating without a license, then it's their own fault entirely. Good on the Guards.

humanji · 31-03-2008 09:47AM

Yeah, I don't see the problem. The nightclub was operating without a liquor license and got their alcohol confiscated. It's the way it should be.

Was that article from Indymedia, by any chance?

31-03-2008 09:49AM

I was thinking its from the independent with the line:

A legal source told the Irish Independent last night that gardai across the country were clamping down on expired licences in respect of nightclubs and public houses but that such raids as happened in Letterkenny at the weekend were "extremely rare".

But the reporter's name is Anita Guidera which just sounds like "I-Need-A-Garda" a bit too much.

Al_Fernz · 31-03-2008 09:52AM

The Gardai do have an exemplary record when it comes to Donegal nightclubs and their owners........

SheroN · 31-03-2008 09:52AM

I hate when people harp on about how old laws are in cases like this. What does it matter? The law still makes sense with applied to a modern day situation.

meathstevie · 31-03-2008 10:00AM

No, please not another Garda vs. nightclub story in Donegal. When are people going to cop on to the fact that closing time as such doesn't make one iota of difference. If you really want to get buckled you can start at 11 am. and be legless be 6 pm. so please don't punish the correctly behaving majority of patrons for the stupid carry on of a few muppets. And as for licences, if a private bus operator on the southside of Dublin can work the public road without a licence without any interference by Gardai or Dept. of Transport why does a pub or club need one to operate it's business ?

31-03-2008 10:00AM

The licence expired in 2006. A new application is currently before the courts. Apparently there are many pubs that operate without such a licence.

seamus · 31-03-2008 10:06AM

Ah Donegal. It's like the wild west of Ireland. Just with less guns.

prendy · 31-03-2008 10:13AM

There was no garda available for comment about the operation last night.

this is what bothers me?
if they feel they are 100% right to confiscate the booze then why not make a comment?
i think its a load of s**t to be honest!
why go to all the bother of loading up vans...why not close the premises for not having a licence or bar them from selling the beer????
nice overtime for the lads thats why....muppets!

TPD · 31-03-2008 10:20AM

seamus wrote: »

Ah Donegal. It's like the wild west of Ireland. Just with less guns.

seamus · 31-03-2008 10:21AM

prendy wrote: »

this is what bothers me?
if they feel they are 100% right to confiscate the booze then why not make a comment?

Make a comment to whom? They're preparing a case against the premises no doubt, they have every right to make no comment.

why go to all the bother of loading up vans...why not close the premises for not having a licence or bar them from selling the beer????
nice overtime for the lads thats why....muppets!

Because they can close the bar, kick everyone out, go home and an hour later (or the next night) the bar is open again. If you take his stock, he has no choice but to close up.

Besides, there's nothing illegal about having a bar open, the illegal thing is selling the alcohol without a licence. So no alcohol, no problem.

GhostInTheRuins · 31-03-2008 10:22AM

Imagine the partys they'll be having in the garda station :pac:

Mr. CooL ICE · 31-03-2008 10:57AM

meathstevie wrote: »

so please don't punish the correctly behaving majority of patrons for the stupid carry on of a few muppets

They're not punishing the patrons, they're punishing the owners. The patrons are just collateral

meathstevie wrote: »

And as for licences, if a private bus operator on the southside of Dublin can work the public road without a licence without any interference by Gardai or Dept. of Transport why does a pub or club need one to operate it's business ?

Maybe they prioritise their license clampdowns on those who affect the peace? I don't see any news relating unlicensed bus drivers to widespread anti-social behaviour...

John Mason · 31-03-2008 11:25AM

salonfire wrote: »

The gardai seem determined to distroy the nightclub industry in Letterkenny it seems.

am confused - the club were breaking the law, the gardai were doing their job why do you say they are determined to destroy the nightclub industry? i would have thought that the club owner was doing that

CantGetNoSleep · 31-03-2008 12:11PM

Similar raids in Waterford on St. Patricks weekend for expired late licences. Din't hear of any drink seized tough

connundrum · 31-03-2008 12:15PM

Apparently there'll be a shindig in Letterkenny Garda Station this Friday. BYOB.

Bendihorse · 31-03-2008 12:23PM

Hums along to :-

Lay by clubs and all night pubs, black jack and roulette
Mel Gibson, Brigitte Nilsen, Mike Tyson having a bet (bite)
Iniseoghain would then be known for it’s multi-millionaires
Where Donald Trump would have a chunk to live in solitaire

And if I could I’d build a wall around old Donegal
The north and south to keep them out, my god I’d build it tall
Casinoes, chicken ranches, I’d legalize them all
We’d have our own Las Vegas in the hills of Donegal
Yeah!! Las Vegas in the hills of Donegal

John Mason · 31-03-2008 01:04PM

Bendihorse wrote: »

Hums along to :-

Lay by clubs and all night pubs, black jack and roulette
Mel Gibson, Brigitte Nilsen, Mike Tyson having a bet (bite)
Iniseoghain would then be known for it’s multi-millionaires
Where Donald Trump would have a chunk to live in solitaire

And if I could I’d build a wall around old Donegal
The north and south to keep them out, my god I’d build it tall
Casinoes, chicken ranches, I’d legalize them all
We’d have our own Las Vegas in the hills of Donegal
Yeah!! Las Vegas in the hills of Donegal

Goats dont Shave - i havent heard that song in years

Dashticle · 01-04-2008 10:31AM

If the fine is in pounds, how are they going to pay it? Is there no way for them to get their booze back? Dumbasses for not getting their license.

spudington16 · 01-04-2008 11:22AM

connundrum wrote: »

Apparently there'll be a shindig in Letterkenny Garda Station this Friday. BYOB.

Cheap bastards! :rolleyes: Fair play to them, though.

ogre · 11-04-2008 08:40AM

"Thou shalt not kill" is a little older and I'd think it still applies. Age doesn't imply it is obsolete.

deaddonkey · 11-04-2008 08:47AM

i'm bemused people would want to go to a nightclub in donegal

Matt Santos · 11-04-2008 10:50AM

Thia is a regular enough occurence now and not as reported "very rare".
Ten years ago when your license was due for renewal you just filled in the license application form and paid the fee for what ever class of license that you operated under. I think there was a £200, £500 and £800 license depending on your turnover.
Suddenly paying tax became a serious issue and instead of being able to go into Revenue and negotiating a payment plan over say 24 months you had to make the majority of the settlement before Revenue would release your Tax Clearance Certificate. This was a set back to a lot of country bars and high running cost business.
To get a new license the Publican needed
1. A current Tax Clearance Certificate
2. A Certificate of Business Registration
3. A Certificate of Compliance from the Fire Officer
4. The Application for the License with the monetary sum.

This meant that Publicans had to get there affairs in order within the 12 months that the license was out of date or the license would "lapse".
You would then need to go before the Circuit Court to re-establish the license with current drawings, Fire Certificate (which will need to be current and that requires a visit from the Fire Officer- Queue ridiculous changes to the structure of the Bar to be covered now under the newest legislation!) and the Tax Clearance Certificate.
To go to the circuit Court to get back a lapsed license will set you back at least €10k and thats only for the court! To comply with Fire Regulations it could be a huge cost. And needless to say Revenue will not issue unless they are at least 80% paid.
That is why so many rural Bars are closing at the moment. Not the smoking ban or drink driving!!
In fairness to the Donegal case the License would have lapsed on the 1st October as that is the date all licenses are due and they had 6 months to get to the courts to put it in place.
I know of a local publican who was doing his best, what with a mortgage, staff and a down turn in business was unceremoniously closed on the first Saturday night after the 1st October at about 11pm. A real feather in the cap for the local Garda with 9 members and three squad cars landing at his door when the Bar was full. And they seized stock also just to continue the kicking. Not as extremely rare as one would think!

The Real B-man · 11-04-2008 01:04PM

ARDAI invoked an ancient and rarely-used statute to seize the entire stock of a nightclub that was allegedly operating without a current liquor licence.

Patrons arriving at the Golden Grill in Letterkenny, Co Donegal, on Saturday night looked on in shock as gardai loaded hundreds of thousands of euro worth of stock from the premises into vans and drove it away.

The raid was carried out on foot of a warrant obtained under Section 24 of the 1874 Licensing Act(Ireland) which empowers gardai to seize liquor which they believe is being sold without licence.

The penalty for a first time offence under the statute, which legal experts say is rarely invoked, is a £4 fine.

Up to 15 gardai descended on the premises on the Port Road in Letterkenny at around 9pm on Saturday night and commenced the operation which took several hours to complete.

Between €150,000 and €200,000 of stock was impounded in the raid.

It is expected that it will remain closed until the matter, which is due to come before Letterkenny Circuit Court on Tuesday, is resolved.

There was no garda available for comment about the operation last night.

Gardai waged war on nightclubs in Letterkenny and Donegal last month a when they objected to the 2.30am exemption for the month of March and sought a 1.30am closing time instead.

During the court hearing, Letterkenny District Superintendent Vincent O'Brien showed a video of street mayhem on Letterkenny's Port Road which he said was typical of what gardai were dealing with every weekend.

A compromise was finally reached when Judge John O'Hagan proposed a 2am closing time for the month which was agreed by most nightclub proprietors.

A legal source told the Irish Independent last night that gardai across the country were clamping down on expired licences in respect of nightclubs and public houses but that such raids as happened in Letterkenny at the weekend were "extremely rare".

- Anita Guidera

Werent the Gardai only formed in 1922?

ojewriej · 11-04-2008 03:28PM

The Real B-man wrote: »

Werent the Gardai only formed in 1922?

It didn't have to be created with Gardai in mind for them to use it now.

astraboy · 11-04-2008 04:17PM

What annoys me is the constant objection to late closing times. Its like we are being told at 2am its past our bed time.:rolleyes:No nightclub in Cork city can get a late extension, all are closed at 2am due to the pigheadness of the local Super. I'm sure staggered closing times and letting people go home on their own accord until 3am/3.30 would ease alot of the issues public order wise, not least of which is every nightclub in the city turfing people out at the dot of 2!

Davidius · 11-04-2008 04:29PM

You'd have to be out of your mind to still be out at 2AM. I mean, seriously, it's way past your bedtime.

Capt'n Midnight · 11-04-2008 08:32PM

Matt Santos5 wrote:

To get a new license the Publican needed
1. A current Tax Clearance Certificate
2. A Certificate of Business Registration
3. A Certificate of Compliance from the Fire Officer
4. The Application for the License with the monetary sum.

So to get a new license the Publican needed nothing new apart from the license fee if they had alreasy been operating legally.

3. A Certificate of Compliance from the Fire Officer
wow fire regulations finally have some teeth and it's only 27 years since the Stardust.

old boy · 11-04-2008 09:32PM

been in a few clubs in the past 12 months, yeah i know over age drinking, been on my arse after 4 1/2 wans, when usually i can manage 24, hope all them spirits are tested, then the sport will commence, b.t.w. i have never drank in donegall but i have sent a few deputys, and they inform me that its nice, nor am i pub spy.

134 year old law used to seize hundreds of thousands euro worth of alcohol

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