Should we boycott the Olympics?

Overheal · 27-03-2008 03:23AM

square_igloo wrote: »

In all fairness, if we boycott do you think the Chinese will care??
Ireland is a small country that doesn't hold much influence, neither in politics nor in sport. (And it is imperative that these be clearly seen as separate entities : the Olympics is NOT about politics)
If America, Russia or the African nations that typically win a lot of medals boycott, then the Chinese might start noticing. But Ireland withdrawing would not make a blind bit of difference. So with that in mind, we should send our athletes and hopefully win something for a change!!

Never say never. Maybe it won't make an impact but theres also the possibility that it will get more people thinking about it. Irish culture has its fingers in just about everything.

If it were me I'd publicly denounce them.

Executive Steve · 27-03-2008 02:24PM

dlofnep wrote: »

It's a tough one to call.

Do we try to defend the people China have oppressed, or support the people who have trained their entire lifes for one goal? Hmm...

I find the fact that ANYONE can think that this is a "tough call" frankly embarrassing.

dlofnep wrote: »

the people who have trained their entire lifes for one goal? Hmm...

It's not as if it's even a noble goal to waste your life training for... Malnourished Eastern European chicks jumping over furniture, synchronised swimming... The Marathon...

There's a million and one athletics events every year, it's not like the Olympics are the only ones... The Olympics (from what i can make out - i know one gu who was on the IOC for several years and a friend of mine wrote a book on Baron de Coubertain) are always politicised too, not least because of the struggles and the hassle of getting your city the authorisation to hold the event. It's all about big bribes and big money - the idea that it's all about some *******n Ideal of Sport in it's purest form hasn't been remotely true for a very very long time indeed.

ScumLord · 27-03-2008 03:30PM

It's a hard call, our athletes have to put in allot of work and dedicate their life's to just one chance. I'm guessing they don't have the resources available to them that bigger countries would meaning they have to work twice as hard. It would be an awful blow to be told you can't attend.

At the same time I just heard the Chinese say the Dali lama has been calling for violence against China which is complete bollox. Ruining life's, violence oppression are much more important issues than winning medals.

I say boycott the bastards, I don't think Ireland pulling out would go unnoticed. Especially if we where first to do it. Ireland is a very popular nation worldwide, there are over 70 million people that clame to be Irish.

Dr_Teeth · 27-03-2008 04:33PM

Why does it have to be "we"? Why do you think boycotting should be on a country by country basis?

Why don't you boycott the Olympics, if you feel strongly about it. Don't watch any of the coverage on TV, don't buy any product/service that uses Olympic-themed advertising etc. If enough people did that you can bet your ass the Olympics would never be held in a questionable country again, it's all about the bottom line at the end of the day.

The same goes for our Olympic athletes. They should be given the opportunity to go to the games if they want, or boycott it if they want. It should be a personal decision imo.

People who do go to compete or spectate should behave as proper guests too, though I'm sure there are plenty of arseholes planning to go to China just to make a fuss and get attention. :mad:

Kev_ps3 · 27-03-2008 04:40PM

ScumLord wrote: »

It's a hard call, our athletes have to put in allot of work and dedicate their life's to just one chance. I'm guessing they don't have the resources available to them that bigger countries would meaning they have to work twice as hard. It would be an awful blow to be told you can't attend.

At the same time I just heard the Chinese say the Dali lama has been calling for violence against China which is complete bollox. Ruining life's, violence oppression are much more important issues than winning medals.

I say boycott the bastards, I don't think Ireland pulling out would go unnoticed. Especially if we where first to do it. Ireland is a very popular nation worldwide, there are over 70 million people that clame to be Irish.

My point ive been trying to make on this issue is that China is not the only country in the world that is doing bad things, alot of the so called "good" countrys are doing them also. There are not many powerfull countrys that have a spotless record on human rights but all of a sudden we should boycott because it is China?
Dont people realise that human rights have been abused in China for a long time and now they are only being recognised in the media? Why do you think that is? I'll tell you why, the west doesnt like China because its not democratic and open to business like the west and its threatening the US as the worlds only superpower.

ScumLord · 27-03-2008 05:06PM

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

My point ive been trying to make on this issue is that China is not the only country in the world that is doing bad things, alot of the so called "good" countrys are doing them also. There are not many powerfull countrys that have a spotless record on human rights but all of a sudden we should boycott because it is China?
Dont people realise that human rights have been abused in China for a long time and now they are only being recognised in the media? Why do you think that is? I'll tell you why, the west doesnt like China because its not democratic and open to business like the west and its threatening the US as the worlds only superpower.

It's true it's only becoming an major issue because of the olympics and maybe we should have made a bigger issue of it before, but just because others are doing it doesn't make it right. One bad guy at a time and all that.

China have put themselves in the limelight and whatever crimes the US and others have done their not really in the same league as China's.

Maybe it will be a good thing for free thinking westerners and downtrodden Chinese to mix at a large event like this. Even though I'm sure China will try to hide the more oppressive things they do, it may become obvious what it's like to live in China and God help them should they try to pull the same **** with us westerners. It may also be good for the locals to see how we live and treat those in power.

Fighting Irish · 27-03-2008 05:24PM

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Talk of France boycotting them, should we? Human rights abuses etc? Should we not politicise sport?

Would the Chinese then pull out of Ireland with their takeaways in an attempt to get us back?

:pac:

boycott the olympics, don't make me laugh

KnifeWRENCH · 27-03-2008 07:02PM

Glenbhoy wrote:

As for keeping politics out of sports :):):):):):):)

fair 'nuff!! I can't argue with 8 smileys!! :pac:

cmtyranny wrote:

Malnourished Eastern European chicks jumping over furniture,

Burst out laughing when I read this!!!

:D:D

Red Alert · 27-03-2008 07:16PM

Boycott on principle? That sounds like having a backbone which nobody in any government funded quango in Ireland will dare do.

leninbenjamin · 27-03-2008 08:21PM

Red Alert wrote: »

Boycott on principle? That sounds like having a backbone which nobody in any government funded quango in Ireland will dare do.

or any other government for that matter. no one is willing to risk poor diplomatic relations with China should it potentially impact the very very lucrative economic relations. and if we were the first to boycott them, unless everyone else in the western world followed suit, we could easily find ourselves on the fringes once more as China's economic influence continually grows.

Denis Irwin · 27-03-2008 08:27PM

Andrews calls for boycott of opening ceremony:

A Fianna Fáil TD has called for Ireland to withdraw from the opening ceremony of Beijing Olympics over the Chinese government’s clampdown on protests in Tibet.
Dublin South East TD Chris Andrews said non-participation in the opening ceremony would send a strong political message "without sacrificing the years of very hard work put in by our athletes"......

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0327/breaking16.htm

Interesting call,the French are reportedly considering this as well so it could become a EU wide boycott which if it happend would certainly be very noticeable.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-03-2008 08:46PM

Why don't you ask some athletes who have been training religiously for the last three/four years? Seriously? Anyone got the balls? I'm looking at you, Andrews...

Glenbhoy · 27-03-2008 11:14PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Why don't you ask some athletes who have been training religiously for the last three/four years? Seriously? Anyone got the balls? I'm looking at you, Andrews...

I'd start by telling them that if they'd ever been able to develop some ball skills they could have made some money.

electric69 · 27-03-2008 11:30PM

If we boycott then the only Irish person at the olympics is gonna be that crazy ass priest! maybe he will be more successful in the marathon this time around?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 28-03-2008 12:01AM

Glenbhoy wrote: »

I'd start by telling them that if they'd ever been able to develop some ball skills they could have made some money.

Baffle them with bull**** because you can't make a valid point? Interesting...

Kev_ps3 · 28-03-2008 10:27AM

ScumLord wrote: »

It's true it's only becoming an major issue because of the olympics and maybe we should have made a bigger issue of it before, but just because others are doing it doesn't make it right. One bad guy at a time and all that.

China have put themselves in the limelight and whatever crimes the US and others have done their not really in the same league as China's.

lol, what history books have you been reading? How many countrys have China invaded in the last 100 years? How many atomic bombs have China dropped? How many troops does China have on foreign soil? Give me a break..

Glenbhoy · 28-03-2008 12:22PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Baffle them with bull**** because you can't make a valid point? Interesting...

More interesting than most of the 'sports' they participate in.
I made my points earlier - China should not have been awarded the Olympics, since they were, we should not attend.
It may not mean much in the grand scheme, but at least we'd be doing the right thing (although as someone pointed out, given our morally bankrupt leadership, we'd never think to do the right thing).
What do you all think China feel about hosting these games? Imo they want the opportunity to show Beijing as being a showcase capital city, state of the art factilities, superior athletes - in other words, their political system works. See Berlin 1936, Moscow 1980 and LA 1984 for recent examples.
If sport is supposed to be non-political, why did the east germans (and many other eastern bloc countries) pour so many resources into these (non-skill) sports in an effort to showcase their countries?

Glenbhoy · 28-03-2008 12:23PM

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

lol, what history books have you been reading? How many countrys have China invaded in the last 100 years? How many atomic bombs have China dropped? How many troops does China have on foreign soil? Give me a break..

You've obviously been reading a lot, google Mao Tse Tung and come back to us.

dieslippers · 28-03-2008 12:33PM

I thnk we should boycott them but that any country that boycotts the olympics should have some domestic games or even better build their own mini olympics.

Executive Steve · 28-03-2008 01:21PM

Glenbhoy wrote: »

What do you all think China feel about hosting these games? Imo they want the opportunity to show Beijing as being a showcase capital city, state of the art factilities, superior athletes - in other words, their political system works. See Berlin 1936, Moscow 1980 and LA 1984 for recent examples.
If sport is supposed to be non-political, why did the east germans (and many other eastern bloc countries) pour so many resources into these (non-skill) sports in an effort to showcase their countries?

Exactly. Which is why it should be boycotted.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 28-03-2008 01:49PM

Glenbhoy wrote: »

More interesting than most of the 'sports' they participate in.
I made my points earlier - China should not have been awarded the Olympics, since they were, we should not attend.
It may not mean much in the grand scheme, but at least we'd be doing the right thing (although as someone pointed out, given our morally bankrupt leadership, we'd never think to do the right thing).
What do you all think China feel about hosting these games? Imo they want the opportunity to show Beijing as being a showcase capital city, state of the art factilities, superior athletes - in other words, their political system works. See Berlin 1936, Moscow 1980 and LA 1984 for recent examples.
If sport is supposed to be non-political, why did the east germans (and many other eastern bloc countries) pour so many resources into these (non-skill) sports in an effort to showcase their countries?

Still haven't asnwered my point: Are you going to tell the athletes who've trained and sarcrificed for three years that they're being turned into political pawns? (I don't respect the remark abotu ballskills as a valid answer)

If the decision had been made back then before people started wasting there time traingin, you may have had a valid point, but you can't use someone else's career to make a stand that said person may not even believe in.

Glenbhoy · 28-03-2008 02:29PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Still haven't asnwered my point: Are you going to tell the athletes who've trained and sarcrificed for three years that they're being turned into political pawns? (I don't respect the remark abotu ballskills as a valid answer)

If the decision had been made back then before people started wasting there time traingin, you may have had a valid point, but you can't use someone else's career to make a stand that said person may not even believe in.

The Olympics is one athletics event, there's also Grand Prix meets, World Cups, World Championships, Euro Championships, Irish Championships and so on for our athletes to appear in.
Tbh, I'm not actually that bothered either way, let them go if they want, I think it would be a good gesture not to go, but if they want to go and pull a tommy smith style gesture after winning something (yeah, I know, it aint going to happen) that'd be cool too, actually, that'd be really good, though maybe for an Irish athlete they'd have to make their gesture at the start of the event as they're unlikely to be on the podium. Imagine, start of the 100m hurdles and Derval O'Rourke pulls out a Tibetan flag just before the starter gun is fired.

Pherekydes · 28-03-2008 02:34PM

Glenbhoy wrote: »

If sport is supposed to be non-political, why did the east germans (and many other eastern bloc countries) pour so many resources into these (non-skill) sports in an effort to showcase their countries?

Haha. Non-skill sports! Go way outa dat, will ya. Go and watch the premiership. Watch Martin Taylor hack through someone's shins with real skill.

:rolleyes:

By the way, it's not just about the money.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 28-03-2008 02:57PM

Glenbhoy wrote: »

The Olympics is one athletics event, there's also Grand Prix meets, World Cups, World Championships, Euro Championships, Irish Championships and so on for our athletes to appear in.
Tbh, I'm not actually that bothered either way, let them go if they want, I think it would be a good gesture not to go, but if they want to go and pull a tommy smith style gesture after winning something (yeah, I know, it aint going to happen) that'd be cool too, actually, that'd be really good, though maybe for an Irish athlete they'd have to make their gesture at the start of the event as they're unlikely to be on the podium. Imagine, start of the 100m hurdles and Derval O'Rourke pulls out a Tibetan flag just before the starter gun is fired.

The olympics, though, is the big one. They build their schedules around it. The athletes should go, but, if you want to make a political point, perhaps Bertie and co should stay at home and boycott?

metaoblivia · 28-03-2008 04:18PM

Glenbhoy wrote: »

What do you all think China feel about hosting these games? Imo they want the opportunity to show Beijing as being a showcase capital city, state of the art factilities, superior athletes - in other words, their political system works. See Berlin 1936, Moscow 1980 and LA 1984 for recent examples.
If sport is supposed to be non-political, why did the east germans (and many other eastern bloc countries) pour so many resources into these (non-skill) sports in an effort to showcase their countries?

This is an interesting topic in my opinion, because I'm an avid gymnastics fan. I follow it the same way that a lot of guys follow football/soccer. China is a huge force in gymnastics, and I can tell you they will stop at nothing to win in Beijing. If they don't win on the women's side, the Americans will, and they can't have that. If they don't win on the men's side, the Japanese will, and that's even worse than the Americans.
China has already falsified birth certificates for athletes that would otherwise be too young to compete. They've intensified training sessions and increased difficulty to extreme levels, resulting in a number of injuries of their athletes.
They're definitely using these Olympics as a showcase for their 'superior' training system. I'm very interested to see how the scoring pans out this year, because I honestly can't see China allowing the Americans or Japanese to beat them on home soil no matter what.
I do think that they shouldn't have been given the Olympics in the first place, but my understanding is that Jiang Zemin, who was number one in the Chinese government in 2001 when the Olympics were awarded had a less authoritarian government than the current leader, Hu Jintao. The current CCP leaders don't seem receptive to any change or criticism from outside sources, and the significance they're placing on these Olympics makes me think that a boycott would only further antagonize them, and I don't think that many countries are willing to do that.
And not only would the athletes suffer, but I think the citizens of Tibet might suffer as well because the government would likely respond by issuing more restraints. Already, my gymnastics message boards have had to utilize the word filter when discussing the China/Tibet situation because several of our posters are from China or living there and if there's too much discussion of Tibet, they won't be able to access the message board. There's also fear of a backlash against Tibet because the government may blame them for any boycott that occurs.

ScumLord · 28-03-2008 05:34PM

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

lol, what history books have you been reading?

American ones.

Fair enough but at least they don't go around killing their own citizens. Anymore. Their people are somewhat free, compaired to China's but I suppose America's proaganda machine is allot slicker than China's but I maintain they're not as heavy handed as China. Any country that treats it'd own citizens like China does gets no respect from me.

thirtyfoot · 28-03-2008 05:54PM

Maybe those advocating a boycott could start a small personal boycott. Stop buying goods produced in China. Shoes, clothes, watches, computers maybe (couldn't rant on boards then though), football boots and most sporting goods, TV etc etc. Have a look and see how many Product of China goods you are wearing or have in your house.

Glenbhoy · 28-03-2008 06:15PM

Tingle wrote: »

Maybe those advocating a boycott could start a small personal boycott. Stop buying goods produced in China. Shoes, clothes, watches, computers maybe (couldn't rant on boards then though), football boots and most sporting goods, TV etc etc. Have a look and see how many Product of China goods you are wearing or have in your house.

Thankfully the auld labelling laws are pretty weak and as long as the finish has been applied in a particular country you can state that it's been manufactured there, so at least I'll be able to live after my boycott starts!!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 29-03-2008 11:49PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The olympics, though, is the big one. They build their schedules around it. The athletes should go, but, if you want to make a political point, perhaps Bertie and co should stay at home and boycott?

Looks like other countries are adopting this approach...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/29/germany.olympicgames2008

Kev_ps3 · 31-03-2008 11:37AM

ScumLord wrote: »

American ones.

Fair enough but at least they don't go around killing their own citizens. Anymore. Their people are somewhat free, compaired to China's but I suppose America's proaganda machine is allot slicker than China's but I maintain they're not as heavy handed as China. Any country that treats it'd own citizens like China does gets no respect from me.

And America treats its citizens well? The rich ones yes, but the poor are treated like dirt. The negros are treated like dirt too.
America isnt snow white on the treatment of their own citizens. They just have the propaganda machine on full belt, while China are still learning the ropes!

Should we boycott the Olympics?

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