Andy Gray going mad on Sky

cournioni · 24-03-2008 10:03PM

Mascherano was at it 5 or 6 times during the game, totally disrespecting Bennett. He was told twice to be quiet, once that he'd get sent off if he kept mouthing off and he got what he deserved. Typical Gray coming out with sensationalist nonsense "ruining the passion" my arse.

Tusky · 24-03-2008 10:05PM

Saying Mascherano had been giving out is all well and good but take a look at the incident in which he was actually sent off. Torres got a yellow card for absolutely nothing and the Liverpool players had a right to be annoyed. It was just unfortunate that it was Mascherano that spoke to the ref instead of a different player.

He wasnt aggressive. He was just asking what the card was for. It was not a sending off offense regardless of how ticked off the red was at Mascherano previously.

Mr.Nice Guy · 24-03-2008 10:12PM

RasTa wrote: »

Just seen the half-time clip
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/man%2Butd%2Bvs%2Bliverpool/video/x4ttja_man-utd-vs-liverpool-half-time-with_sport.

Wow. Jamie Redknapp speaking sense shocker! :eek: Fair play to him.

Sherifu · 24-03-2008 10:15PM

Hmmm, seeing the incidents for the first time there was nothing in either of them. I've seen good referees wave that kind of questioning of their decisions aside so easily. Collina's death stare comes to mind here. Weak refs will always get into these situations and end up overreacting.

Im_No_Superman · 24-03-2008 10:15PM

Tusky wrote: »

Saying Mascherano had been giving out is all well and good but take a look at the incident in which he was actually sent off. Torres got a yellow card for absolutely nothing and the Liverpool players had a right to be annoyed. It was just unfortunate that it was Mascherano that spoke to the ref instead of a different player.

He wasnt aggressive. He was just asking what the card was for. It was not a sending off offense regardless of how ticked off the red was at Mascherano previously.

The way I see it is that if your on a yellow card and you are constantly fouling you will eventually get another yellow and be sent off although the foul you are getting sent off for doesnt look bad. Its the same with Mascherano only instead of constant fouling he was constanly showing disent, so when he got the second yellow it may not have been agressive or looked bad but he was consistenly showing disent so he was threading on thin ice.

It really annoyed me the way Gray just focused on that one bit of disent and not the all the others that led up to the red card being shown.

Kevster · 24-03-2008 10:18PM

corcaighcailin9 wrote: »

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere.

Just watching the games from earlier, onto The Last Word programme now and Andy is still spitting feathers over the Mascherano incident. I feel sorry for poor Richard Keys being on the end of his ranting.

As a Utd fan (and a very happy one ) I of course think Mr Bennett made the right call...

This is what is called 'getting too much confidence'. You would probably have seen it before in other TV personalities such as: Bill O'Reilly (Fox News), Éamonn Dunphy, Jeremy Paxman, and Tim Marshall (Sky News).

I have noticed a lot of crap coming out of his mouth recently too. He takes it too far at times, but someone just needs to remind him that he's a fat, ugly, ****, with an irritating voice and I'm sure his arrogance will take a dent.

Kevin.

Bubs101 · 24-03-2008 10:21PM

I think the real problem in the incident was that he gave Torres a yellow for descent literally seconds before he booked Mascherano. If he didn't book Mascherano it would have been a big case of double standards

cournioni · 24-03-2008 10:22PM

Torres did absolutely nothing eh? How do you know this? Were you there on the pitch? Who is to say he didn't call Bennett a baldy prick?! Would Bennett have been right to book him then??

As for Mascherano, who was in the referees face all day to try and intimidate him... Running 20 yards to get in the referees face to repeatedly say "what did he do?" in a raised voice no doubt judging by the footage, I fail to see how this isn't further intimidation. Bennett had already told Mascherano if he persisted with repeating "what did he do" that he would be sent off, he persisted, so he was sent off.

You do the math Tusky.

event · 24-03-2008 10:39PM

Call_me_al wrote: »

he may have been speaking spanish:D but i completely agree with Bennett's decision if and only if every other game is refereed the same way in the future. and since masch looked like he was only talking to the ref when he got his marching orders, then the next time we see ANYONE confront Mr. Bennett hurling abuse at them a la John Terry, Rio Ferdinand style then they must walk.

if the rest of the refs dont follow his lead from here in then its just as bad a deicision as against chelski.

when i asked an FAI ref about just booking people who are shouting at the ref last year he said he would never do it as he wouldnt get the support from the organisation, the media or his colleagues.

or a yellow card you mean, sure thats all mascherano got?

when i saw his own team-mate pulling him away in alonso, showed he thought he was wrong too

corcaighcailin9 · 24-03-2008 10:59PM

And the way alonso let him go and didn't go after him said a lot as well. after his half-hearted attempts to restrain Mascherano. I think Stevie G should have made it his business to get his ass over to the situation as captain and calm his team mate down. God knows he did precious little else all day.
It was interesting that Sky showed Benitez's reaction in a split screen. He knew what was coming before the ref even showed the yellow.

jesus_thats_gre · 24-03-2008 11:17PM

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Torres did absolutely nothing eh? How do you know this? Were you there on the pitch? Who is to say he didn't call Bennett a baldy prick?! Would Bennett have been right to book him then??

Yeah, Torres is renowned for abusing people, referree's in particular. Time to detach yourself from the game and imagine someone else coming up with that hypothetical nonsense to defend a referee that just sent off a United player.

With the reputation that Bennet has and the lack of reputation that Torress has, maybe it is more resonable to assume that Bennett got the booking wrong?

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

As for Mascherano, who was in the referees face all day to try and intimidate him... Running 20 yards to get in the referees face to repeatedly say "what did he do?" in a raised voice no doubt judging by the footage, I fail to see how this isn't further intimidation. Bennett had already told Mascherano if he persisted with repeating "what did he do" that he would be sent off, he persisted, so he was sent off.

There was nothing intimidating about it. I agree that Mascherao acted foolishly and is largely responsible for the sending off but some of the accounts of what happened are way off the mark.

There was nothing about his body language that was remotely threatening or aggressive. Am not sure about you but when angry or being aggressive, it tends to also be reflected in your facial expression. One thing that you do not do is have a big smile on your face.

If what happened occurred 2 weeks ago, it would not have been a sending off. Mascherano is a victim of what happened with Ashley Cole last week and was made an example off by a ref who was singled out for criticism by the boss of the referee association for not acting on what he saw during that incident.

It is done now and it makes little or no real difference but I just cannot understand why you would even waste your energy in having such a biased opinion of it.

Saying that, if whatever rule Bennett was adhering too is consistently enforced throughout the rest of the season the I don't have a problem with it. I think we both know what we will regularly see worse for the rest of the season and no cards will be produced.

cournioni · 24-03-2008 11:38PM

Ok so the referee is wrong and you are right JTG, you were there on the pitch after all...

jesus_thats_gre · 25-03-2008 12:16AM

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Ok so the referee is wrong and you are right JTG, you were there on the pitch after all...

Why do you feel the need to so defend a referee with a reputation of being card happy who was called up by his boss for not acting on the dissent shown by Ashley Cole just last week?

Considering we are both working off the same information, what is more likely 1) that Torres unleased a torrent of abuse towards the ref or 2) the ref over reacted after Torres complained that he wasn't getting enough protection?

An Citeog · 25-03-2008 12:24AM

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

There was nothing intimidating about it. I agree that Mascherao acted foolishly and is largely responsible for the sending off but some of the accounts of what happened are way off the mark.

There was nothing about his body language that was remotely threatening or aggressive. Am not sure about you but when angry or being aggressive, it tends to also be reflected in your facial expression. One thing that you do not do is have a big smile on your face.

If what happened occurred 2 weeks ago, it would not have been a sending off. Mascherano is a victim of what happened with Ashley Cole last week and was made an example off by a ref who was singled out for criticism by the boss of the referee association for not acting on what he saw during that incident.

First of all, it was a second yellow card. It wasn't as if Bennett brandished a straight red. Mascherano has nobody to blame but himself. He got a deserved yellow card for a late tackle on Scholes and one of the most blatant fouls in the game. He then gets up with that smile on his face and starts giving the ref an earful. Same thing when the free was given against him for obstruction on Giggs. Still that same smile on his face as he turned his attention towards the referee's assistant. The third foul on Ronaldo was pushing it slightly. He was never going to get a second booking for the foul itself but he was threading on thin ice and it really doesn't take much for Steve Bennett to brandish the card, particularly if the player is beginning to annoy him and questioning every decision he makes. I guess the Torres one was the straw that broke the camel's back. He had no reason to go near the referee, particularly not when he had to go out of his way to get there. You've already been booked, made a couple of fouls since then and are beginning to get on the ref's nerves and your teammate has just been booked for dissent; so when exactly does it seem like a good idea to go racing over to the ref, past one of your own players who tries to hold you back, just so you can ask him "what was that for", with that same smirk/grin/whatever you want to call it. It wasn't exactly a "let's be friends" smirk on his face, more like a "you're a joke" one. I'm sure that's exactly what Steve Bennett, Rafa Benitez and Mascherano's 10 teammates were thinking at the time. He has nobody but himself to blame. I'm sure Steve Bennett will have no problem justifying his decision to his superiors but how does Mascherano explain his own behaviour during the match? It was clear (to me anyway) that Mascherano had already pressed the self-destruct button and wasn't going the last much longer.

I think the Torres booking was farcical though. He got a couple of kicks (which happens when you're rolling around on the ground trying to protect the ball) and complained about it to the ref. Ref should have just told him it's a free kick, nothing else and left it at that.

cournioni · 25-03-2008 12:26AM

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Why do you feel the need to so defend a referee with a reputation of being card happy who was called up by his boss for not acting on the dissent shown by Ashley Cole just last week?

Why do you feel the need to attack the referee when Mascherano was clearly showing dissent 5 or 6 times during the game? Having been warned twice (once to say that he would be sent off if he continued).

I think that repeating "why did you book him" seven or eight times is a bookable offence especially if the referee had warned him about his conduct prior and during the incident. Not to mention the amount of times he told the ref to "F*ck off" and waving imaginary cards to try and get another player booked while on the yellow card. Bennett gave him plenty of chances to tone down his behaviour and in the end he said enough was enough.

Kevster · 25-03-2008 12:40AM

What's worse is that Benitez has publicly supported Mascherano, who will now probably never learn from his mistake.

Chardee MacDennis · 25-03-2008 12:48AM

event wrote: »

or a yellow card you mean, sure thats all mascherano got?

when i saw his own team-mate pulling him away in alonso, showed he thought he was wrong too

sorry thats what i meant :eek:

Kevster wrote: »

What's worse is that Benitez has publicly supported Mascherano, who will now probably never learn from his mistake.

what? that makes no sense, do you really think benitez is gonna lambast him publicly? i highly doubt it, he probably will have a few words with him and rafa will make sure it doesnt happen again.

BaZmO* · 25-03-2008 01:27AM

Tusky wrote: »

Torres got a yellow card for absolutely nothing and the Liverpool players had a right to be annoyed. It was just unfortunate that it was Mascherano that spoke to the ref instead of a different player.

He wasnt aggressive. He was just asking what the card was for. It was not a sending off offense regardless of how ticked off the red was at Mascherano previously.

I thought Bennett just got p1ssed at Torres for trying to tell him to book another player.

But having said that, even if Torres just said "Thank you very much Mr. Bennett, you were right to book me, I'll just get on with my game now"
Surely Mascherano could've seen that the ref was obviously card happy and that just perhaps maybe if he was to run 20 yards to ask wtf? he might end up with another yellow himself? Then again, footballers aren't generally renowned for their intelligence.

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

There was nothing about his body language that was remotely threatening or aggressive. Am not sure about you but when angry or being aggressive, it tends to also be reflected in your facial expression. One thing that you do not do is have a big smile on your face.

It must be an Argentinian thing so, Heinze used to always have a big smile on his face while remonstrating to the ref just after he'd hacked down a player.

kryogen · 25-03-2008 05:59AM

if you watch the Benitez interview after the game and read between the lines a little it is clear to see that he is irritated by mascheranos behaviour and knows his player was wrong, he intimated that mascherano was aware he let his team mates down without using those exact words, im sure he blasted him for it privately.he simply cannot throw him to the wolves publicly, that would make him a very bad manager and he would lose alot of respect in the dressing room

Something i have been thinking about is where was the captain? where was Gerrard, and not just for the second yellow incident, why didnt he pull Masch aside at some stage previous and calm him down, it was obvious to most people that he was gonna be sent off sooner rather then later with his tackles and his constant attempted intimidation of the ref, is it not the captains job to steady the ship and try keep his players cool? he showed very little sympathy when the red card was produced too meaning to me at least that he also knew that it was a justified sending off and he was rightly pissed off with his team mate for being so stupid

the torres booking is a joke to me, i dont know what he said, i did see the hand gesture he made after being told to walk away though and since its bennet he decided to take a strong line. but for the little argie to run 20 yards across the pitch to have a go again was inexcusable. he was stupid.

anytime he fouled a player he got in bennets face, anytime a liverpool player was fouled he got in bennets face, its not acceptable behaviour and it had to be stoppped one way or the other, he was given plenty of warnings which he choose to ignore so he must accept the consequences. as for him not using foul language, bollox, he quite clearly tells the ref to **** off repeatedly during the game and just because he didnt use abusive language the last time doesnt mean he didnt deserve to go for repeated offenses.

i actually wouldnt be suprised to see his mandatory ban extended for his behaviour after he was told to leave the pitch, and maybe it wont be such a bad thing. but i doubt it will really change the way players treat refs because the other ones wont follow suit imo

on a side note, did fernando make it out of Ferdinands pocket safe again this time?

Mr.Nice Guy · 25-03-2008 06:25AM

Just wondering if Andy Gray's attitude about the sending off had anything to do with the backlash he received for his commentary on the Inter/'Pool tie...

Sky Sports under fire for alleged anti-LFC bias

Sky Sports was under fire last night over claims the broadcaster was biased in its commentary of Liverpool's Champions League victory over Inter Milan.

A legion of angry fans have accused top pundit Andy Gray of favouring the Italian champions over the British club with his comments.

Now Reds supporters are threatening a boycott of the broadcasting giant unless ex Everton star Gray is removed from the commentary team for their club's televised games.

The £20,0000-a-week Scottish pundit incensed Kop fans by branding the sending off of Inter midfielder Nicolas Burdisso "shocking", claiming Liverpool star Lucas commited the foul.

And he got their backs up further by appearing to sound down when Fernando Torres bagged the goal that killed the tie and sent his team into the last 16. Gray said: "It's game over I guess."

Season ticket holder Carl Rittenburg stormed: "I pay £48 per month so I can watch Liverpool's matches on Sky but I'll stop my subscription if they continue to let Andy Gray commentate.

"The man knows his stuff but he is so anti-Liverpool it's shocking and that was clearly evident during the Inter Milan game when he slated us at every chance.

"Gray seemed really annoyed when the Inter guy was sent off - he did nothing but go on about it all game.

"Yet he was calling for Liverpool players to get booked at the end of the match.

"Even when Torres scored the winner - that saw another British side through to the quarter finals - he sounded disappointed. It was like he wanted the Italians to win.

"We're not asking for bias towards Liverpool - were just asking for a fair commentary.

"But in having Gray to cover our games we're not getting that from Sky.

Kop fan Peter Stenton said: "As viewers we pay Sky for a service and a fair commentary when we watch live football - and in most cases that's we get.

"But it seems every time Andy Gray covers Liverpool games out team is given a verbal demolition."

Rita Walsh, 40, said: "I was so disgusted with the one-sided commentary during the game I wrote a letter to Sky to complain.

"Sky Sports has an obligation to provide fair and accurate coverage but in allowing Andy Gray to commentate on liverpool games it is falling woefully short."

Liverpool fans' revolt against Glasgow-born Gray, 53, has been simmering since he was signed up by Sky in 1990.

One Kopite has even set up a facebook group calling for the former nand Aston Villa striker to be taken off Liverpool games.

Scouser Alex Parkin, 28, said: "I set up the group to get Gray off our games.

"If Sky don't take him off then I'll seriously be thinking about scrapping my subscription in protest."

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=sky-sports-under-fire-for-alleged-anti-lfc-bias%26method=full%26objectid=20635031%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

Maybe he was uneasy about getting on 'Pool fans' wicks again?

Chardee MacDennis · 25-03-2008 09:20AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Just wondering if Andy Gray's attitude about the sending off had anything to do with the backlash he received for his commentary on the Inter/'Pool tie...

Maybe he was uneasy about getting on 'Pool fans' wicks again?

that may explain a lot!

iregk · 25-03-2008 09:47AM

So have I got this correct.

Liverpool people/fans don't buy the Sun, they boycott it due to the whole hillsborough thing yet their only gripe against the tv station owned by the same company is the commentator and the fact that he is an ex everton man?

Chardee MacDennis · 25-03-2008 10:27AM

iregk wrote: »

So have I got this correct.

Liverpool people/fans don't buy the Sun, they boycott it due to the whole hillsborough thing yet their only gripe against the tv station owned by the same company is the commentator and the fact that he is an ex everton man?

no its not that he is an ex-everton man it's that he clearly doesnt like Liverpool and has bashed them at every opportunity - Fergie made 8 (i think!) changes against Liverpool where was his problem with rotation there or how about this ludicrous vendetta he has with zonal marking.

also Murdock had NOTHING to do with the Sun and Hillsborough, in fact i seem to recall a poster here saying that Murdock wasnt to pleased with the papers handling of the affair.

iregk · 25-03-2008 11:33AM

yeah at the time they had nothing to do with each other but now they are the same company. Thats what I was getting at.

patmac · 25-03-2008 11:54AM

Ah the irony, Andy Gray (whom I dislike anyway with his annoying pally,pally, jokey commentry with Martin, just get a room guys) harping on about the sanitisation of the game when sky analyse ever single angle of every game with their 1000 cameras at every match, even going as far as bringing in lip readers to see what players say, wake up Andy your one of the main reasons players can't talk to refs, if Sky and the rest of the media hadn't analysed Cashley's reaction last Wednesday night to death then Bennett wouldn't have sent Macharano off and given United a handy 3 points so ultimately it cost Chelsea in the long run just a pity they beat the gunners or the irony would have been even better, karma and all that.
Having said that Mashcarano was an idiot to run half the pitch to argue with the ref, and United would have probably won anyway as they were the better team up to the sending off.

ditpoker · 25-03-2008 01:28PM

patmac wrote: »

Ah the irony, Andy Gray (whom I dislike anyway with his annoying pally,pally, jokey commentry with Martin, just get a room guys) harping on about the sanitisation of the game when sky analyse ever single angle of every game with their 1000 cameras at every match, even going as far as bringing in lip readers to see what players say, wake up Andy your one of the main reasons players can't talk to refs, if Sky and the rest of the media hadn't analysed Cashley's reaction last Wednesday night to death then Bennett wouldn't have sent Macharano off and given United a handy 3 points so ultimately it cost Chelsea in the long run just a pity they beat the gunners or the irony would have been even better, karma and all that.
Having said that Mashcarano was an idiot to run half the pitch to argue with the ref, and United would have probably won anyway as they were the better team up to the sending off.

so basically, ashley cole cost chelsea the league because he is a c0ck!?

think karma worked out nicely! hehehe

scruff321 · 25-03-2008 01:45PM

andy gray just hates ALL referees full stop!

iregk · 25-03-2008 02:35PM

What I find hillarious is the lenghts Sky go to on the theatrical side of things in order to hype up the sensationalisim of the prem.

They get a lip reader in to translate what was said between the ref and cole. They show subtitles etc and some guy badgering on in disbelief and how much of a sensational story this is while the lip reader clarifies every single sentance.

What did Setanta do? They played the audio from the pitch side mic!!!

LegacyUser · 25-03-2008 04:25PM

Anyone got a recording of andy gray on the last word?

Insect Overlord · 25-03-2008 04:25PM

An Citeog wrote: »

First of all, it was a second yellow card. It wasn't as if Bennett brandished a straight red. Mascherano has nobody to blame but himself. He got a deserved yellow card for a late tackle on Scholes and one of the most blatant fouls in the game. He then gets up with that smile on his face and starts giving the ref an earful. Same thing when the free was given against him for obstruction on Giggs. Still that same smile on his face as he turned his attention towards the referee's assistant. The third foul on Ronaldo was pushing it slightly. He was never going to get a second booking for the foul itself but he was threading on thin ice and it really doesn't take much for Steve Bennett to brandish the card, particularly if the player is beginning to annoy him and questioning every decision he makes. I guess the Torres one was the straw that broke the camel's back. He had no reason to go near the referee, particularly not when he had to go out of his way to get there. You've already been booked, made a couple of fouls since then and are beginning to get on the ref's nerves and your teammate has just been booked for dissent; so when exactly does it seem like a good idea to go racing over to the ref, past one of your own players who tries to hold you back, just so you can ask him "what was that for", with that same smirk/grin/whatever you want to call it. It wasn't exactly a "let's be friends" smirk on his face, more like a "you're a joke" one. I'm sure that's exactly what Steve Bennett, Rafa Benitez and Mascherano's 10 teammates were thinking at the time. He has nobody but himself to blame. I'm sure Steve Bennett will have no problem justifying his decision to his superiors but how does Mascherano explain his own behaviour during the match? It was clear (to me anyway) that Mascherano had already pressed the self-destruct button and wasn't going the last much longer.

I think the Torres booking was farcical though. He got a couple of kicks (which happens when you're rolling around on the ground trying to protect the ball) and complained about it to the ref. Ref should have just told him it's a free kick, nothing else and left it at that.

This post, for me anyway, sums up the whole incident best. I was watching the game with my father (a life-long Villa fan and ardent ABU) and even he was agreed when the decision went against Liverpool. Mascherano was the proverbial ticking time-bomb, right from that first foul on Scholes.

As for the referee's decision to show the 2 yellow cards (Masch + Torres) for dissent, I (just from playing local, under-age soccer) have met plenty of cantankerous gits in black who would have done the exact same thing. Ask any amateur player in the country and they'll all agree that there's a serious element of egotism/power-madness among many referees. Footballers of all levels have to put up with it, not just Liverpool FC.

Andy Gray going mad on Sky

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