NTL hacked box

Alo10 · 19-02-2008 12:09PM

Thanks for clarifying - FYI they have a new apartment with a cable terminating - they have no sub, no hacked box - using a "starview 2" digital receiver and get about 100 channels..

watty · 19-02-2008 12:25PM

That is an inherently hacked box (illegal cable receiver). It's theft pure and simple as well as copyright violation.
Those are illegal to sell or use in Ireland.

Garda are seizing those and UPC have "bricked" many similar models.

timmol · 19-03-2008 07:36PM

does 'the box t' work with sctv in carrigaline?

watty · 19-03-2008 08:03PM

SCTV uses satellite TV type gear. It's a wireless Cable system like MMDS (11.7Ghz instead of 2.5Ghz). You must use their subscription and equipment. Cable Theft law applies.

johnfás · 20-03-2008 12:52AM

UPC (NTL) went around every house on my road today checking to see did anyone have these. [snipped]

BostonB · 20-03-2008 02:10AM

johnfás wrote: »

UPC (NTL) went around every house on my road today checking to see did anyone have these. [snipped]

How would they know?

krinpit · 20-03-2008 09:19AM

johnfás wrote: »

UPC (NTL) went around every house on my road today checking to see did anyone have these. [snipped]

Yeah right! Did they have a search warrant?

seamus · 20-03-2008 11:35AM

krinpit wrote: »

Yeah right! Did they have a search warrant?

Since NTL/UPC retain ownership of the digiboxes (not sure about the PVRs), I imagine there's some legal hole they can use that allows them access to inspect their equipment. At a reasonable time and with your consent obviously.

Our man in Havana · 20-03-2008 12:09PM

seamus wrote: »

Since NTL/UPC retain ownership of the digiboxes (not sure about the PVRs), I imagine there's some legal hole they can use that allows them access to inspect their equipment. At a reasonable time and with your consent obviously.

They can ask to come in but you can tell them to go away as they have no automatic right of entry. They will then return with a search warrant and Gardaí.

BostonB · 20-03-2008 05:40PM

How hard is it just to refuse entry and hide the box?

Hobart · 20-03-2008 07:29PM

Bond-007 wrote: »

They can ask to come in but you can tell them to go away as they have no automatic right of entry. They will then return with a search warrant and Gardaí.

Is this what are tax dollars are being spent on? Are Gardai readily available (or do they make themselves available) to accompany NTL/UPC personnel as they do their daily inspections? How easily are these search warrants granted? On what basis is the warrant granted?

watty · 20-03-2008 07:44PM

Stealing cable service is "theft of service", a criminal offence, not like Warez etc which is civil copyright infringement.

johnfás · 20-03-2008 08:00PM

Of course they didn't have a warrant but of course they would report it to the Gardaí if you refused them to look at it. We just let them in as we have nothing to hide anyway. They were also doing maintenance on the area in recent days so I'm sure they have a right of access to their boxes within your house as they still own them.

Our man in Havana · 20-03-2008 08:31PM

They still need a warrant to enforce their right of access if the householder tells them to go away.

Hobart · 20-03-2008 09:27PM

watty wrote: »

Stealing cable service is "theft of service", a criminal offence, not like Warez etc which is civil copyright infringement.

I appreciate that, I'm just wondering if what has been stated is actually the case. I have never seen a report of anybody being presented with a warrant in order to allow UPC reps to "check out" the house.

I'm also wondering on what basis the search warrant is issued. Surely there must be "suspicion" of theft.

rubadub · 20-03-2008 09:41PM

Hobart wrote: »

I appreciate that, I'm just wondering if what has been stated is actually the case.

I wonder the same thing as you. Will the gardai actually come out with UPC, it is hard enough to get them out if your house is robbed, surely there are more pressing issues for them. It is like the eircom illegal download thing, saying it is up to the music companies. If I was the gardai I would say it is up to UPC to get better protection systems.

Hobart wrote: »

I'm also wondering on what basis the search warrant is issued. Surely there must be "suspicion" of theft.

Exactly, can I just call to someones house and ask to come in, then get a warrant saying I suspect they stole something from me. Or do I need to have a UPC uniform on before the gardai believe me?

Stealing cable service is "theft of service", a criminal offence

There are a massive amount of criminals out there on the loose so. Are there any other common criminal offences being committed like this?

Do warrants have to be issued by a judge? would a judge really allow the massive administration costs etc happen for an issue like this? I should hope not, as the taxpayer ends up paying. Imagine the cost of raiding and imprisoning every person who used one of these boxes.

jawlie · 03-04-2008 08:43AM

johnfás wrote: »

Of course they didn't have a warrant but of course they would report it to the Gardaí if you refused them to look at it. We just let them in as we have nothing to hide anyway. They were also doing maintenance on the area in recent days so I'm sure they have a right of access to their boxes within your house as they still own them.

Nobody has a right of entry on to someone elses's property. Additionally, it is well within anyone's rights to remove NTL's apparatus from private property.

watty · 03-04-2008 10:55AM

There are possibly two reasons that officials without warrent can enter your property, even using force. Excise Acts and previously Wireless Telegraphy acts. I havn't checked lately.

jawlie · 03-04-2008 11:13AM

watty wrote: »

There are possibly two reasons that officials without warrent can enter your property, even using force. Excise Acts and previously Wireless Telegraphy acts. I havn't checked lately.

there is a difference between officers of the state legally entering private property, and employees of a private company.

Our man in Havana · 03-04-2008 11:38AM

They will obtain a search warrant and they will return to execute it with Gardaí. If you then refuse them entry the Gardaí will break down your door.

I used to work for a semi state agency that had equipment that customers would interfere with to gain advantage i.e. pay that agency less money for services obtained. I and other colleagues would call to houses/businesses to check such equipment for signs of interference. If we were refused entry, it would be sufficient cause to obtain a warrant and return with the Gardaí. Peace commissioners had no problem approving warrants in such situations.

Maximilian · 03-04-2008 11:46AM

Plus I recall reading in a newspaper in the last week how NTL in conjunction with the Gardai have in fact done so.

Lets cut to the chase here. There's undoubtedly a bunch of people who are following this thread and who have one of those illegal receivers. If its not obvious already, you now run a very real risk of getting caught and its time to get rid of them.

seamus · 03-04-2008 11:52AM

Maximilian wrote: »

Plus I recall reading in a newspaper in the last week how NTL in conjunction with the Gardai have in fact done so.

Lets cut to the chase here. There's undoubtedly a bunch of people who are following this thread and who have one of those illegal receivers. If its not obvious already, you now run a very real risk of getting caught and its time to get rid of them.

Not to mention that from a technical POV, these things are ridiculously easy to detect. The NTL Digital cable network is essentially a bog-standard IP based computer network. You're attaching a foreign computer device to their network. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

plodder · 03-04-2008 11:53AM

Maximilian wrote: »

Plus I recall reading in a newspaper in the last week how NTL in conjunction with the Gardai have in fact done so.

What newspaper was this? I find this extremely hard to believe.

krinpit · 03-04-2008 11:55AM

seamus wrote: »

Not to mention that from a technical POV, these things are ridiculously easy to detect. The NTL Digital cable network is essentially a bog-standard IP based computer network. You're attaching a foreign computer device to their network. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

Are you sure about this - in that case, why would you need a Modem for the Broadband package?

plodder · 03-04-2008 11:59AM

krinpit wrote: »

Are you sure about this - in that case, why would you need a Modem for the Broadband package?

I use NTL's digital service over MMDS, and I'm 99% certain it's not IP based. There isn't any two way communication at all. It's a one way broadcast as far as I can tell.

seamus · 03-04-2008 12:00PM

krinpit wrote: »

Are you sure about this - in that case, why would you need a Modem for the Broadband package?

I'm not privy to the exact setup details of the network, but obviously it's not exactly the same as a Coax LAN setup. The modem is essentially just a coax network adapter with a few bells and whistles; it's not a modem in the conventional sense of dial-up modems.

NTLs modems and digiboxes are nodes with distinct IP addresses on an IP network. These other boxes still have to conform to the rules of that network - i.e. get an IP address and talk to the rest of the network - which is why they stick out so readily.

[Edit: MMDS I'm not sure about. I'll have to read up on it.

I also stand to be corrected on the network - I'm making assumptions based on examining my own NTL equipment.

Maximilian · 03-04-2008 12:01PM

plodder wrote: »

What newspaper was this? I find this extremely hard to believe.

No, I just made it up to support a point I was making.

The Irish Times I think. Monday or Tuesday last.

plodder · 03-04-2008 12:06PM

Found links to a story where Gardai, together with NTL staff raided a premises in Finglas that was selling these boxes. Quite a different scenario to breaking down the front-doors of people's houses after the NTL guy being refused entry.

plodder · 03-04-2008 12:10PM

Maximilian wrote: »

No, I just made it up to support a point I was making.

The Irish Times I think. Monday or Tuesday last.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were making it up. It was more a general statement of surprise.

Maximilian · 03-04-2008 12:40PM

I didn't take offense. I just never miss an cheap opportunity for sarcasm

The article didn't mention breaking down doors or anything but I would say the next such story will. It did mention If I recall, how they are employing methods of detecting users of these boxes. One such method would be to look at the records of these sellers & find out who their customers were.

As much as I loathe NTL, if I had an illegal box, I would chuck it out.

NTL hacked box

Comments