The party's over

Earthhorse · 11-03-2008 02:54PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I mean "people act irresponsibly while drunk, how can we cope with other drugs" isn't a logical argument. Legalising other drugs isn't going to magically create more free time for people in which to do these new drugs. They'll just have the option of alternating between different drugs every weekend. Explain to me how this presents more problems or increases the chances of someone driving while under the influence of a drug?

Simply because I believe more people will take it and more regularly once it becomes legal. This is especially true for drugs such as heroin and LSD which most people would have no experience of.

JC 2K3 · 11-03-2008 02:54PM

Trojan911 wrote: »

People have been starving & dying all around the world since I can remember, it is a fact of life, it's not going to change in my lifetime.

Eh, same goes for people taking drugs...

Earthhorse · 11-03-2008 02:56PM

Mordeth wrote: »

freedom and the rights of the individual are more than "fine".

my god, did I wake up in china this morning?

You know exactly what I meant by that, don't be so silly.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 11-03-2008 02:57PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

Simply because I believe more people will take it and more regularly once it becomes legal. This is especially true for drugs such as heroin and LSD which most people would have no experience of.

ahahahahahahahahha

thank you for disqualifying yourself from the argument.

People will either want to try lsd or heroin, or they won't. It's legality doesn't really enter into it and to suggest that if it suddenly became legal far more people would be trying them.. sweet jesus.

lsd is a complete and utter mind****, most people do not want this experience and they will not volunteer for it whatever it's political situation.

similar for heroin, although I've never taken it so I can't attest to it's sheer mind****ery but I'm not going to take heroin because I don't want to. The fact that it is illegal doesn't really enter into it.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 11-03-2008 02:58PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

You know exactly what I meant by that, don't be so silly.

yes I do, you think you know best about how I and others oughta live our lives. Thank's for your opinion but I'd appreciate you not enforcing it through the state.

Degsy · 11-03-2008 02:59PM

Kold wrote: »

Why stop there? Let's hunt commies and free thinkers too. Just a question, do you value free will at all?

Sure,I'm just saying the crap is illegal,it funds crime,it kills people,it ruins lives,it turns normal people into arseholes,it sucks all the money out of your bank account,its not pure,it doesnt make you creative or funny or friendly,it doesnt go with music or food or films,it makes people agressive and paranoid and schizophrenic,it destroys your heart faster than anything else,the giovernment want to stop people taking the stuff and i'm suggesting a good way they can do it.
It also amazes me why people would come onto a (largely) public forum and admit to illegal behaviour.You might not think you're doing anything wrong but it IS against the law,free will or not.If you like to take (crap) drugs,fine,but i think it'd be far better for your own sake if you didnt broadcast the fact.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 11-03-2008 03:01PM

probably woulfc have been better for christians in rome to hide the fact they were christians too, and in China today. Brave folk, if a tad misguided.

Earthhorse · 11-03-2008 03:03PM

Mordeth wrote: »

ahahahahahahahahha

thank you for disqualifying yourself from the argument.

Bullsh*t.

Mordeth wrote: »

yes I do, you think you know best about how I and others oughta live our lives. Thank's for your opinion but I'd appreciate you not enforcing it through the state.

How would you rather I enforce it?

You've skipped my point about having a duty of care towards others as well. You basically ignore the substance of my arguments and focus in on something as trivial as an adjective.

I don't know if you woke up in China this morning. Maybe if you didn't hang out in opium dens you wouldn't get Shanghaied. (Oh look, I can argue spuriously too).

JC 2K3 · 11-03-2008 03:04PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

Simply because I believe more people will take it and more regularly once it becomes legal. This is especially true for drugs such as heroin and LSD which most people would have no experience of.

Why more regularly?

As for LSD, you can't actually take it until like a week afterwards because the way its tolerance works is that once you've taken it, you won't get effects from taking any more for like a week afterwards. It's also non addictive and generally not a drug taken on too regular a basis, since it's not a social drug.

As for heroin, well again, it's not a social drug, and I can't see its stigma going away just because it's legalised. Ask any drug user who does E, Coke, Weed etc. if they'd do heroin and the vast majority of times they'll say no.

Kold · 11-03-2008 03:04PM

Degsy wrote: »

Sure,I'm just saying the crap is illegal,it funds crime,it kills people,it ruins lives,it turns normal people into arseholes,it sucks all the money out of your bank account,its not pure,it doesnt make you creative or funny or friendly,it doesnt go with music or food or films,it makes people agressive and paranoid and schizophrenic,it destroys your heart faster than anything else,the giovernment want to stop people taking the stuff and i'm suggesting a good way they can do it.
It also amazes me why people would come onto a (largely) public forum and admit to illegal behaviour.You might not think you're doing anything wrong but it IS against the law,free will or not.If you like to take (crap) drugs,fine,but i think it'd be far better for your own sake if you didnt broadcast the fact.

Wait, stop. I've said it about 3 times in the thread. WHAT DRUG ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HERE?

Degsy · 11-03-2008 03:05PM

Mordeth wrote: »

probably woulfc have been better for christians in rome to hide the fact they were christians too, and in China today. Brave folk, if a tad misguided.

Is that the best you can do?
Pathetic.

Earthhorse · 11-03-2008 03:05PM

Mordeth wrote: »

probably woulfc have been better for christians in rome to hide the fact they were christians too, and in China today. Brave folk, if a tad misguided.

A ha! Are you actually comparing yourself to them? Ahaha!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 11-03-2008 03:07PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

Bullsh*t.

How would you rather I enforce it?

You've skipped my point about having a duty of care towards others as well. You basically ignore the substance of my arguments and focus in on something as trivial as an adjective.

I don't know if you woke up in China this morning. Maybe if you didn't hang out in opium dens you wouldn't get Shanghaied. (Oh look, I can argue spuriously too).

I'd rather you didn't enforce it, thankyouverymuch.

as to 'duty of care'... no, we dont. We should try to help the helpless sure, because it is a moral thing to do but it's not a duty and I won't be forced into it.

JC 2K3 · 11-03-2008 03:08PM

Degsy wrote: »

Sure,I'm just saying the crap is illegal,it funds crime,it kills people,it ruins lives,it turns normal people into arseholes,it sucks all the money out of your bank account,its not pure,it doesnt make you creative or funny or friendly,it doesnt go with music or food or films,it makes people agressive and paranoid and schizophrenic,it destroys your heart faster than anything else,the giovernment want to stop people taking the stuff and i'm suggesting a good way they can do it.
It also amazes me why people would come onto a (largely) public forum and admit to illegal behaviour.You might not think you're doing anything wrong but it IS against the law,free will or not.If you like to take (crap) drugs,fine,but i think it'd be far better for your own sake if you didnt broadcast the fact.

I hope you're talking about coke, rather than drugs in general, because while there might be elements of truth in that if it relates to coke(though still very assertive and questionable), if you're talking about all drugs then you have no idea what you're talking about.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 11-03-2008 03:08PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

A ha! Are you actually comparing yourself to them? Ahaha!

me, no. I haven't been arrested or had my life ruined by overzealous anti drug ****wits, but thousands, millions of people all over the world have.

I'm one of the lucky ones.

so far

Degsy · 11-03-2008 03:08PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Ask any drug user who does E, Coke, Weed etc. if they'd do heroin and the vast majority of times they'll say no.

Oh yeah?How do you think a lot of people got into heroin inthe first place?I'll tell ya shall i?
They started smoking it either because other stuff wasnt available OR to come down after a night on pills or coke.There's a link there,make no mistake.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 11-03-2008 03:10PM

Degsy wrote: »

Oh yeah?How do you think a lot of people got into heroin inthe first place?I'll tell ya shall i?
They started smoking it either because other stuff wasnt available OR to come down after a night on pills or coke.There's a link there,make no mistake.

exactly. because it's illegal. so they ahve to go to the same illegal dealer for everything, who tries to push things they normally wouldn't do on them.

is this really too complicated for you? I don't know how to make it any simpler.

Degsy · 11-03-2008 03:10PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I hope you're talking about coke, rather than drugs in general, because while there might be elements of truth in that if it relates to coke(though still very assertive and questionable), if you're talking about all drugs then you have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm refering exclusively to coke although i can include amphetamine in there as it has pretty much the same effect.Oh yeah and crack and khat although you cant really get either over here.

Earthhorse · 11-03-2008 03:11PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Why more regularly?

Once anything pleasurable becomes easier to do people do it more regularly.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

As for LSD, you can't actually take it until like a week afterwards because the way its tolerance works is that once you've taken it, you won't get effects from taking any more for like a week afterwards. It's also non addictive and generally not a drug taken on too regular a basis, since it's not a social drug.

As for heroin, well again, it's not a social drug, and I can't see its stigma going away just because it's legalised. Ask any drug user who does E, Coke, Weed etc. if they'd do heroin and the vast majority of times they'll say no.

But more people will still do them both and I'm only using them as examples as a counterpoint to the case for cocaine where the number of users won't significantly increase because so many have already done it.

Degsy · 11-03-2008 03:11PM

Mordeth wrote: »

exactly. because it's illegal. so they ahve to go to the same illegal dealer for everything, who tries to push things they normally wouldn't do on them.

is this really too complicated for you? I don't know how to make it any simpler.

Wel then the obviously sensible thing to do would be to stay away from the dealer...no?

Kold · 11-03-2008 03:15PM

Degsy wrote: »

Oh yeah?How do you think a lot of people got into heroin inthe first place?I'll tell ya shall i?
They started smoking it either because other stuff wasnt available OR to come down after a night on pills or coke.There's a link there,make no mistake.

Lolz. "Aw man, I gots a nasty comedown, ****'s overbaring"
"Try some smack man, shizz will fluff you up"
"Well I've heard all the bad things, seen a million movies, heard that it's up there with the most addictive substances known to man (1 hit will get you physically hooked) but a'ight"

I think you seem to be mistaking 'recreational drug user' for 'person of phenomenally low intelligence'. There are retards on both sides of the fence and guess what, you're not more intelligent than anyone who takes drugs and therefore don't get to play Daddy.

ScumLord · 11-03-2008 03:15PM

Prohibition doesn't work, it has never worked and it will never work. Prohibition just takes advantage of stupid people and gives them a bad guy to give out about, government bodies can then soak up as much money as they like to line they're own pockets and make themselves seem important.

Your taxes are used to create this war on drugs. The people you elect are empowering these criminal gangs by giving them them a product that's more valuable than gold. The Government doesn't care that it can't win this war because it's in the mans best interest to see it continue.

All drug users do is use drugs.

Earthhorse · 11-03-2008 03:19PM

Mordeth wrote: »

as to 'duty of care'... no, we dont. We should try to help the helpless sure, because it is a moral thing to do but it's not a duty and I won't be forced into it.

Okay, but you said earlier that you think any substance should be legalised because people should be free to do what they want so long as it doesn't infringe on other people's rights (I'm paraphrasing). I agree, but I think in practise legalising some drugs would probably lead to people's rights being infringed upon.

Also, this has gone totally off topic now. At present the drugs industry is mired in lots of horrible behaviour, and whether that's as a result of it being an illegal trade or not is irrelevant to the present day; people should still be allowed to distinguish between that and the behaviour of other industries (legal and illegal) and decide whether they regard supporting it as ethical or not.

Trojan911 · 11-03-2008 03:21PM

Dudess wrote: »

What a load of cock that post is. You're clearly clutching at straws.

No, I suggest you are clutching at straws.

Dudess wrote: »

Where's the mention of Ireland? You've only brought that up now because it's a nice convenient line to back up your argument. Anyway, Ireland is part of a globalised economy now.

The OP clearly describes an Irish issue.

Dudess wrote: »

Yes, you could say that about the overlords in the coffee, tea and rag trades. But then you trotted out the "it's not illegal" argument as I knew you would.

I was not the one who started on about tea & coffee. I have no issue with tea, coffee, chocolate or clothes. Do you know me or something?

Dudess wrote: »

I find it rather shocking of you to be ok about 3-year-olds being abused in factories.

It was five year olds in your last post. Are you plucking figures out of the sky to try to back up your argument?

Dudess wrote: »

Yes, there is the very occasional killing of a person who's in the wrong place at the wrong time,

Is one killing of an innocent person not enough? Would your view change if that innocent victim was one near & dear to you? How many more occasional killings must occur?

Dudess wrote: »

but other than that: the misery is of the junkies, yet you just said you don't feel sorry for them, that they're taking up hospital beds etc...

Not entirely, you are forgetting the innocent victims of burglary, theft, robbery, murder & the likes so a junkie can afford their next fix. You are missing the fact that some of these innocent victims need counselling after their traumatic event, Some become and stay nervous wrecks. That is the misery I am relating to. You have every right to be

JC 2K3 · 11-03-2008 03:28PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

Once anything pleasurable becomes easier to do people do it more regularly.

Indeed, but they'd still have to hold down a job. Like I've said, legalising drugs won't magically give everyone more free time to do drugs. The frequency of people using drugs(inc. alcohol) would remain the same - i.e. every weekend, there'd just be a bigger variety to chose from.

Earthhorse wrote: »

But more people will still do them both

Well yes, but I personally don't think more people doing LSD is a bad thing, and I think heroin would still have its stigma, which would prevent its uptake by the vast majority of people.

And again, neither are social drugs, so the motivation to take them is a lot less than other drugs.

ScumLord wrote:

Your taxes are used to create this war on drugs. The people you elect are empowering these criminal gangs by giving them them a product that's more valuable than gold. The Government doesn't care that it can't win this war because it's in the mans best interest to see it continue.

Heh, I like that. "Every time you pay your taxes, you're funding gang warfare".

Kold · 11-03-2008 03:33PM

HOLD THE F*CKING PRESSES, YOU KNOW WHAT I JOUST FOUND OUT? THE GAS FROM MY HOB GETS YOU OFF YOUR F*CKING FACE!
It's legal too. Mad skillz, wtf was I doing buying weed?

Degsy · 11-03-2008 04:01PM

Kold wrote: »

Lolz. "Aw man, I gots a nasty comedown, ****'s overbaring"
"Try some smack man, shizz will fluff you up"
"Well I've heard all the bad things, seen a million movies, heard that it's up there with the most addictive substances known to man (1 hit will get you physically hooked) but a'ight"

I think you seem to be mistaking 'recreational drug user' for 'person of phenomenally low intelligence'. There are retards on both sides of the fence and guess what, you're not more intelligent than anyone who takes drugs and therefore don't get to play Daddy.

You're phenomenally ill-informed.A non-drug user would say about cocaine what you said about heroin.You know better coz you use cocaine,right?You've no problems whatsoever and you're going to continue using cocaine recreationally and if it ever becomes a problem you'll stop?After all,only idiots get hooked on class-A drugs?Thats how heroin use progresses.People might smoke a bit to come down after a night on the pills or coke,do a little every weekend for several months..no problems.But what happens is that you're subtley buying more and more as it gets its claws into you,heroin addicts never think they'll end up strung out,people who do coke never think they'll end up on heroin,or strung ou t on coke OR injecting coke OR smoking crack.But it happens.Thats why some drugs are dangerous,they lead to addiction,addiction leads to misery and sometimes to death.

Dashticle · 11-03-2008 04:08PM

Mordeth wrote: »

exactly. because it's illegal. so they ahve to go to the same illegal dealer for everything, who tries to push things they normally wouldn't do on them.

is this really too complicated for you? I don't know how to make it any simpler.

Get a grip. Just because someone sells weed or pills does not mean they are going to deal heroin. Some very few do, not all. Bottom line is heroin is generally seen as a dirty, underground drug. People who are a bit miffed that they can't get a few pills for a saturday night or a 50bag of weed aren't going to go shooting up gear because of it.

You're phenomenally ill-informed.A non-drug user would say about cocaine what you said about heroin.You know better coz you use cocaine,right?You've no problems whatsoever and you're going to continue using cocaine recreationally and if it ever becomes a problem you'll stop?After all,only idiots get hooked on class-A drugs?Thats how heroin use progresses.People might smoke a bit to come down after a night on the pills or coke,do a little every weekend for several months..no problems.But what happens is that you're subtley buying more and more as it gets its claws into you,heroin addicts never think they'll end up strung out,people who do coke never think they'll end up on heroin,or strung ou t on coke OR injecting coke OR smoking crack.But it happens.Thats why some drugs are dangerous,they lead to addiction,addiction leads to misery and sometimes to death.

Did this actually happen to you or something? I've never heard of anyone smoking heroin to come down off pills, it sounds pretty weird to me.

Kold · 11-03-2008 04:11PM

Degsy wrote: »

You're phenomenally ill-informed.A non-drug user would say about cocaine what you said about heroin.You know better coz you use cocaine,right?You've no problems whatsoever and you're going to continue using cocaine recreationally and if it ever becomes a problem you'll stop?After all,only idiots get hooked on class-A drugs?Thats how heroin use progresses.People might smoke a bit to come down after a night on the pills or coke,do a little every weekend for several months..no problems.But what happens is that you're subtley buying more and more as it gets its claws into you,heroin addicts never think they'll end up strung out,people who do coke never think they'll end up on heroin,or strung ou t on coke OR injecting coke OR smoking crack.But it happens.Thats why some drugs are dangerous,they lead to addiction,addiction leads to misery and sometimes to death.

I don't use cocaine actually. The reason being the **** quality and the cost of a good night on it. I think everyone knows that it's addictive and if they don't then they really shouldn't dabble in things they know nothing of.

Degsy · 11-03-2008 04:16PM

Dashticle wrote: »

Get a grip. Just because someone sells weed or pills does not mean they are going to deal heroin. Some very few do, not all. Bottom line is heroin is generally seen as a dirty, underground drug. People who are a bit miffed that they can't get a few pills for a saturday night or a 50bag of weed aren't going to go shooting up gear because of it.

Stranger things aheve happened.There's a lot more money in heroin than in weed and pills put together.If you get caught with 10k's worth of pills it could get you ten years in jail,10k's worth of smack takes up a lot less room and you'll still get the same sentence.I reckon if you asked somebody who's moving a fairly serious amount of pills could he get you some "brown" the chances are he'll be able to...

The party's over

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