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Why are Englishmen comparatively useless when it comes to life after football?

  • 02-03-2008 04:28PM
    #1
    Neil3030
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭


    Has this been discussed here before?

    Take the top managers that have graced the Premiership in the recent times, you have Ferguson (Scottish), Wenger (French), Dalglish (Scottish), Mourinho (Portuguese), Benitez (Spanish), O'Neill (N. Irish), Eriksson (Swedish) and Moyes (Scottish), and really the only Englishmen that come close IMO are Boothroyd, Allardyce or Pearce - and the gap there is immense.

    Even when you look at analysis, the likes of Giles (Irish), Brady (Irish), Lawro (Irish), Dunphy (Irish), Hansen (Scottish) and Souness (Scottish) are head and shoulders above the likes of Redknapp, Shearer, Wright, Hoddle, Venables and co.

    Is it a difference in emphasis on education between England and other countries, or is it reflective of the types of social climates that breed the majority of English footballers? There's no doubt England have produced by far the best pool of players in the last twenty years, but why have none of them gone on to excel in management or analysis?


Comments

  • #2
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Look at your list of top managers. How many of them were top players? Or players at all for that matter :) Maybe they just dedicate themselves to being managers and become students of the game, also startign that education fairly young helps.


  • #3
    MrJoeSoap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    Lawro (Irish)

    Snigger. :D

    In answer to the question though... I don't know. You forgot to mention Gary Lineker.


  • #4
    PHB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    How many top players become top managers? None of the top 4 managers were currently top players. Ferguson was probably the most successful of them, but he did little in his playing career.
    In Spain, Barcas was a top player, as was Reals.

    Mancini was a relatively decent player, but not top class. Spalletti was an ok player. Ancelotti was a top player.

    I think the fact that we have foreign managers is because English players in general don't step up.
    That said, I do think the following English managers could become top class. Hughes and Keane particuarly I think have a lot of potential.


  • #5
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,137 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    PHB wrote: »
    That said, I do think the following English managers could become top class. Hughes and Keane particuarly I think have a lot of potential.

    Neither are English though..

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  • #6
    Nailz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,688 ✭✭✭Nailz


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    Has this been discussed here before?

    Take the top managers that have graced the Premiership in the recent times, you have Ferguson (Scottish), Wenger (French), Dalglish (Scottish), Mourinho (Portuguese), Benitez (Spanish), O'Neill (N. Irish), Eriksson (Swedish) and Moyes (Scottish), and really the only Englishmen that come close IMO are Boothroyd, Allardyce or Pearce - and the gap there is immense.

    Even when you look at analysis, the likes of Giles (Irish), Brady (Irish), Lawro (Irish), Dunphy (Irish), Hansen (Scottish) and Souness (Scottish) are head and shoulders above the likes of Redknapp, Shearer, Wright, Hoddle, Venables and co.

    Is it a difference in emphasis on education between England and other countries, or is it reflective of the types of social climates that breed the majority of English footballers? There's no doubt England have produced by far the best pool of players in the last twenty years, but why have none of them gone on to excel in management or analysis?
    Benitez is a top Premiership manager?? Ha! :p Anyway, have a look at how many Scottish managers there. For some reason they tend to be in a different class of their own when it comes to being a manager. The ones there are; Fergie, Souness, Moyes, Dalglish & Hansen all great managers when you think of it, not to forget McLeish. And outside the Premiership and even before it there has been great Scottish managers like Bill Shankly, Strachan, Walter Smith and ofcource Jock Stein. Incredible when you think about it...


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  • #7
    Nunu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭Nunu


    Nailz wrote: »
    Benitez is a top Premiership manager?? Ha! :p Anyway, have a look at how many Scottish managers there. For some reason they tend to be in a different class of their own when it comes to being a managers. The ones there are; Fergie, Souness, Moyes, Dalglish & Hensen all great managers when you think of it, no to forget McLeish. And outside the Premiership and even before it there has been great Scottish managers like Bill Shankly, Strachan, Walter Smith and ofcource Jock Stein. Incredible when you think about it...


    I'm just going to brush past the Souness inclusion on that list:D because I want to know who the **** is Hensen:confused:

    Edit: From reading previous posts i see you mean Hanson...i honestly don't think he has ever managed!?


  • #8
    Nailz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,688 ✭✭✭Nailz


    Oops, Hansen... Wait! Alan Hansen!?! I don't think he was a manager, why was he on your list Neil?? BTW, I only had him there because Neil had him there. I seen `Scottish` so I said, "alrighty then"!


  • #9
    MrJoeSoap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    Nunu wrote: »
    I'm just going to brush past the Souness inclusion on that list:D because I want to know who the **** is Hensen:confused:

    Edit: From reading previous posts i see you mean Hanson...i honestly don't think he has ever managed!?

    FFS, it's HANSEN. If you are going to criticise someone else for spelling something wrong, at least get it right yourself.

    This thread has more holes than the Derby defence.


  • #10
    Nailz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,688 ✭✭✭Nailz


    Don't be cruel Joe... :)


  • #11
    MrJoeSoap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    MMMbop tick a ta ba do ba, dubi da ba do ba. Now thats Hanson. :)


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  • #12
    Nunu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭Nunu


    MrJoeSoap wrote: »
    FFS, it's HANSEN. If you are going to criticise someone else for spelling something wrong, at least get it right yourself.

    This thread has more holes than the Derby defence.

    Relax the cacks Joseph:D

    I wasn't criticizing spelling....his was the first post I read and he listed a load of managers and i honestly didn't know who he was talking about because as I said in my edit(before you're reply i'd like to point out;)) Hansen has never managed so he never even entered my head that that's who he was talking about!


  • #13
    Nailz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,688 ✭✭✭Nailz


    It's like a chain, I didn't know who Mike was on about when I relised that there something wrong so I taught about it... Read this post; http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=55281343&postcount=8

    Nobodies fault..... apart from Neil's. :D


  • #14
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    Houllier made a good point on this recently.
    summmary: the english players jump into the deep end without the necessary skillsets and fail spectacularly, which has largely been true: look at how out of their depth Adams, Keane, Southgate et al have all been at times. there's also a real lack of exposure to the tactical/technical aspects in the previous set of english players i believe (based on how tactically poor the english teams looked in the previous decades compared with their European counterparts). Though now that the current crop have exposure to some quality foreign coaches and techniques and more technical approaches to the game i think we might some decent English managers emerge in the next few decades, assuming of course they dont just walk into management as soon as their career ends and crash and burn doing irreparable damage to their reputations, as has been the story for so many.


  • #15
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    Has this been discussed here before?

    Take the top managers that have graced the Premiership in the recent times, you have Ferguson (Scottish), Wenger (French), Dalglish (Scottish), Mourinho (Portuguese), Benitez (Spanish), O'Neill (N. Irish), Eriksson (Swedish) and Moyes (Scottish), and really the only Englishmen that come close IMO are Boothroyd, Allardyce or Pearce - and the gap there is immense.

    Even when you look at analysis, the likes of Giles (Irish), Brady (Irish), Lawro (Irish), Dunphy (Irish), Hansen (Scottish) and Souness (Scottish) are head and shoulders above the likes of Redknapp, Shearer, Wright, Hoddle, Venables and co.

    Is it a difference in emphasis on education between England and other countries, or is it reflective of the types of social climates that breed the majority of English footballers? There's no doubt England have produced by far the best pool of players in the last twenty years, but why have none of them gone on to excel in management or analysis?

    I think it's wider than football: continentals tend to be a bit more level-headed than the Brits. I think it's down to two things

    1) Not speaking English when they're kids; subsequently not being as affected by Americal pop-culture as kids who grow up speaking English

    2) In the continent there's a far stronger emphasis on the person as well as the player - perticulalry in terms of education. In England, it's just the football at the detriment of other aspects of the personality.

    The Ajax youth system is alleged to spend a lot of time education people as well as young footballers.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #16
    Neil3030
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Nailz wrote: »
    Oops, Hansen... Wait! Alan Hansen!?! I don't think he was a manager, why was he on your list Neil?? BTW, I only had him there because Neil had him there. I seen `Scottish` so I said, "alrighty then"!

    Let's clear this up at least - I had Hansen and Souness listed under analysts not managers...

    O.K. I suppose the current crop of eminent managers were not top players, but if I may re-word my opinion (at the expense of being a bit more generalising)

    Why are the English such sub-par analysts and managers?


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