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Nuclear device - great weapon or a vision of hell?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭williambonney


    “Stalin suggested killing 50,000 German officers after WWII, cruel but had it served as a warning to the future it probably have saved more lives in the 20th century alone.”

    How would murdering 50,000 unarmed German officers have saved more lives in the 20th century? All it would have achieved was to sate the appetite of the greatest mass murderer since Genghis khan. If there ever was a devil in human form it was Stalin. And I stand by what I said, the Japs got what they deserved. They should have realised that they had no hope of beating the allies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 722 ✭✭✭stakey


    So Operation Downfall was just for the laugh, was it?

    There's no question of a certain amount of vindictiveness in the US approach to ending the war with Japan and I'm sure elements of the US establishment would've loved to put elements of Operation Downfall (and did) into effect, but overall the use of nuclear weapons were not justified.

    Operation Downfall was an unfinished 'What if' plan, Operation Starvation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Starvation) was in full effect near the end of the war and some historians believed it alone could've brought an end to the war.

    The US had a need and drive to drop nuclear weapons on Japan. They needed to show the world and specifically Russia their capabilities. The evidence out there points to many avenues of ending the war nearly on par with the terms of surrender they reached on August 15th. However, the US chose to use the nuclear option.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 471 ✭✭Clytus


    TBH I think alot of posters are taking a modern day view of the use of nuclear weapons,when they comment on how they were used in the last days of WW2. The war was devestating to so many countries...not least Great Britian. The country was virtually bankrupt..it was exausted from 6 years of war. Churchill was very wise to the threat of the Soviet Union and forsaw very well the "decending of an iron curtin" across eastern Europe.

    The United States couldnt allow Communist sphere of influence stretch to its back yard...so needed a show of strenght to end the war quickly,as the Soviet Union had only just declared war on Japan and was quickening its forces deployment east.
    How would murdering 50,000 unarmed German officers have saved more lives in the 20th century? All it would have achieved was to sate the appetite of the greatest mass murderer since Genghis khan. If there ever was a devil in human form it was Stalin. And I stand by what I said, the Japs got what they deserved. They should have realised that they had no hope of beating the allies.

    I always considered that Stalin was in fact the murderer of many times this number of German POWs. Take the Stalingrad POWs. Of the 91,000 captured only 5000 ever saw Germany again...and when you look and the rates of death in a Ranks perspective youll see that officers of the Wehrmacht suffered a great deal more than NCOs,and SS officers could be almost certain of death. Example in the Officers camp of Frolovo out of 5000 inmates...less than 1000 survived.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Clytus wrote:
    I always considered that Stalin was in fact the murderer of many times this number of German POWs. Take the Stalingrad POWs. Of the 91,000 captured only 5000 ever saw Germany again...and when you look and the rates of death in a Ranks perspective youll see that officers of the Wehrmacht suffered a great deal more than NCOs,and SS officers could be almost certain of death. Example in the Officers camp of Frolovo out of 5000 inmates...less than 1000 survived.
    Most of the 5,000 who survived were of higher ranks, one reason was that they were better fed before the surrender.

    My point abut the 50,000 was that today when a member of the military is faced with a decision to kill civilians they don't really have to worry about war crimes tribunals or even military courts. During WWII the Germans treated the uprising in Poland with full military honours, probably only because the realised the end of the war was near. Had they known how leniently they would be treated they might not have.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭Peteee


    Bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure is what the US is good at. As demonstrated in Korea, South East Asia, Libya, Iraq, Afganistan, Yoguoslavia, Somalia etc. etc.

    Ah yes, the United States are well known for wading into downtown Baghdad and carpet bombing it. :rolleyes:

    Intentional mass destruction of civilians are a thing of the past. Politics wont allow it nowaday. Most american bombings concentrate on C&C structures using precision weapons. Sure the occasional bridge and 'baby milk factories' (I'm sure you know the story behind that one) get targeted too, but thats par for the course.

    It's not as if they fly B-52's over baghdad and drop 100's of MK-82's out the bay doors.

    Clytus and Cap't Midnight (Apart from the post I pointed out!), you seem to have an excellent understanding of things.

    If anyone would like to see an excellent docudrama on Nuclear war, then I'd recommend the film Threads, made in 1984 by the BBC. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2023790698427111488

    It's a pretty harrowing look at life leading up to, during, and after a Nuclear exchange, told from the perspective of ordinary people.

    As for the debate, while nuclear weapons are a terrible thing, I think that the likely hood of the Soviet Union and America turning the cold war hot, would have been far greater had it not been for Mutually Assured Destruction.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Clytus wrote: »
    I always considered that Stalin was in fact the murderer of many times this number of German POWs. Take the Stalingrad POWs. Of the 91,000 captured only 5000 ever saw Germany again...and when you look and the rates of death in a Ranks perspective youll see that officers of the Wehrmacht suffered a great deal more than NCOs,and SS officers could be almost certain of death. Example in the Officers camp of Frolovo out of 5000 inmates...less than 1000 survived.

    Check your maths.
    1000 survivors out of 5000 officers = 20% survival.
    4000 survivors out of 86000 other ranks = 4.65% survival.

    Much higher survival rate for officers there :rolleyes:


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