Doctors seek ban to remove alcohol from shelves

dr.bollocko · 19-02-2008 02:41AM

This doctor aint seekin no ban. Drink on friends. I will get drunk and beat on the other doctors until they agree with me. Thats how this works! How do you think we got leeches back on the NHS?

Yakult · 19-02-2008 03:00AM

Turning into a giant oldfolks home. next they will give us a set bed time.

Bob the Builder · 19-02-2008 03:07AM

Boggles wrote: »

My God!! Can you put 3 cans on this card, 2 cans on this card, how many points is a bottle of bucky?

What genius had that idea?

Did you not ever hear of a Tesco clubcard?

Sam Vimes wrote: »

i agree with the doctors but i think we should go even further and ban alcohol altogether. we banned cocaine and nobody does that anymore

Are you joking? Well only a load of people, including a celebrity died from coke before christmas. It's the culture that's wrong, not the where and when we buy it.

The Irish have a history of being alco's! sorry, but it's true. I would much rather have a drink in the pub with my parents rather than going out getting bollocksed every weekend under a tree! It was stupid laws like this which damaged pubs and society, not just off license's.

Sher aren't half the FF backbenchers publicans, and the other half are closely related to publicans. So it will be a very rough, biased law, when it's created.

Manic Moran · 19-02-2008 05:14AM

tallaght01 wrote: »

It's not hypocritical not to ban alcohol entirely.

No, but it's pretty bloody stupid. Look up the 18th Ammendment to the United States Constitution.

Iceland was bizarre though. For most of the last century you could have a stiff drink, but you weren't allowed have a beer.

NTM

dermo88 · 19-02-2008 06:18AM

Its impossible to ban. The best thing to do is to allow sales to take place. Governments simply have to realise that no matter how much they legislate for the actions of people, people will always find a way around every obstacle they put up. Not only that, people will ignore, and lose respect for the laws.

This was the way I felt regarding the smoking ban. If cigarettes were half the price, I'd have more respect for the smoking ban. However, smokers were used as a tool by the exchequer, and on cost-benefit analysis alone, the state makes a 400% profit or more from excise duties compared to the treatment of smokers.

If sales for tobacco were restricted to pharmacies and limited hours, fair enough. Thats a wonderful idea in theory, but before you know it, the Budget airlines would be doing a roaring trade, and there would always be someone in your neighbourhood with 400 Benson for 80 Euro to spare. Thats almost HALF the legal price. We'd be more friendly with our Romanian and Polish neighbours, and they'd have a lot more cash for wire transfers back to their accounts in Poland, Romania, Latvia and Lithuania. The state would be content seeing the statistics for legitimate tobacco consumption drop considerably, and go to their EU counterparts "Hey, its working, its really working", but it would be a crock of rubbish.

The state is only too aware that Irish people do not have the ability to hop across borders and access cheap(er) alcohol and tobacco like our continental neighbours do.

Lets take a look at the figures I have compiled, and you'll see that smokers have been raped financially, since I started smoking in 1994

20 John Player Blue 1994 price IEP2.53 (EUR3.00)
1999 price IEP3.17 (EUR3.60)
2000 price IEP3.80 (EUR4.90)
2002 price EUR5.50
2007 price EUR7.00

How do you expect me to respect the laws of the land, when I am being robbed like this. You are driving my custom elsewhere into the hands of criminals and paramilitaries, and I despise you for doing that. I have no objection to a smoking ban, its good, and it ensures a cleaner atmosphere for all, but for christs sake, play fair all around. Its a regressive damn tax.

We then come to alcohol. Its not 1933. If you taxed it to the hilt, it would be easyy to make the stuff at home using homebrew kits and the likes. Thats what happens in Norway and Sweden today. Thats what happens in Iceland. I assure you, it would happen in Ireland just as quickly. Teenagers know how to make booze, and no amount of policing would prevent that. The recipes for cheap, dangerous, and nasty alcohol are all available on the internet. Again, the state would boast "hey its working, its really working", but half the sales would be legal and legitimate, the other half would be under the counter. This occurs in ALL high taxed alcohol nations, with the exception of Singapore (but their borders are extremely tight anyway). Even high taxed, or illegal consumption Islamic nations have readily available booze, sold as "Special Tea", "Siddiq (my friend)", "Kelantan Tea (Malaysia under their screwed up PAS Islamic Party in Kelantan state), "Chinese Special Tea" (Brunei). Believe me, I would find alcohol in Iran or Saudi if I was pushed, and whats more, I'd get away with it as well. Margaret Thatcher said "You cannot beat the market", and her words really apply here.

So lets cut the hand wringing lefty medical speak, and legislative nonsense. You've got a cartel in this country that few respect and everyone distrusts. They are called the Vinters Federation. You've also got three main wholesale distributors - Guiness (Diageo), Murphys and beamish and Crawford. Then finally, you have the state. The state is more addicted to alcohol than the population itself. It is addicted through the revenue stream. 10% of Irish state revenues are generated from booze and fags. Thats twice as much as any other EU state, with the exception of Britain. Oh....and NONE of it is earmarked for healthcare or prevention. NONE, NADA, ZILCH. If it was, then I'd tolerate, and respect high taxes.

Through this ignoble threesome, an orgy of financial rape has been perpetuated on the Irish people for decades, selling lower quality alcohol compared to our continental neighbours. Yes, we have a problem with alcohol in Ireland, but plenty of other countries do not. The pub is part of our culture, and even if it was taxed at Norwegian levels, which are the highest in the world, we'd be knocking it back like it was lemonade anyway.

tallaght01 · 19-02-2008 06:44AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

No, but it's pretty bloody stupid. Look up the 18th Ammendment to the United States Constitution.

NTM

If I remember, the 18th ammendment refers to prohibition. Nobody here is arguing for prohibition.

dermo88 wrote: »

Its impossible to ban.

The best thing to do is to allow sales to take place.

So lets cut the hand wringing lefty medical speak, and legislative nonsense.

An orgy of financial rape has been perpetuated on the Irish people for decades

Yes it's impossible to ban.

Yes we should allow sales.

Left wingers would be against the state restricting the purchase of alcohol!

I think the above references to rape are a bit extreme lol. The sale of alcohol in alternative venues is really not to comparable to sexual assault, in my humble opinion.

All the IMO are proposing is that alcohol be sold in shops where the sale an marketing of booze is responsible, and where the staff are trained properly.

This shouldn't be a cause for moral outrage, guys.

muppetkiller · 19-02-2008 10:29AM

I think they should also ban food from Supermarkets and sweet shops too...Look at all those really obese people clogging up our health system !!!

tallaght01 · 19-02-2008 10:36AM

muppetkiller wrote: »

I think they should also ban food from Supermarkets and sweet shops too...Look at all those really obese people clogging up our health system !!!

The difference is that you can't ethically restrict peoples' access to food, as many people buy it for dependents.

Proposed legislation regarding the advertising of high fat foods directed at kids is no bad thing though.

greenkittie · 19-02-2008 11:07AM

This is the way its sold in Northern Ireland and we don't complain like they are violating our human rights!

dermo88 · 19-02-2008 12:24PM

And who ran Northern Ireland for most of its accursed existence?

A bunch of toffee nosed Scotch Presbyterians who thought we Southerners belonged with Calor Kosangas. So you think the rules of a fascist pseudo state should apply in Ireland. Bad luck to the people who ran it. Good luck to those who lived and live in it. They need all of it. They had more to worry about in that nuthouse statelet than the availability of booze.

But enough of the daft ranting from me. There has to be a logical solution. Our alcohol problems are bad, but they are nowhere near as bad as Finland. When they entered the European Union, alcohol consumption went through the roof after their Government cut excise duties by 33%. Irish, English and Scandinavians do not drink like the continentals when they have between one and three drinks a day, and thats it. We tend to store it up all week and go on a crazy binge on either/or/both Friday or Saturday nights. Some of us even manage to do that three times, four times a week, if we can afford it, if we do not have other responsibilities.

The Irish mentality seems to be stuck between wanting the ready availability and low price of our Southern European counterparts, and wanting to consume like the Northern Europeans, and never the twain shall meet. There are also a higher proportion of irresponsible consumers, whose consumption style would shock the Yanks and Southern Europeans. My own observation is that when its priced at an excessive level, its mystified and perceived as a luxury. When its not readily available there are problems. Its only become a problem as Ireland has got wealthier, so now everyone can afford it.

I warned my friends that if they drank, no matter how much they objected to smoking, they should oppose the smoking ban at all costs for the reason that once smoking as the latest public enemy number one went, booze was next. Within 5 years, the guns of the department of finance are being lined up. Come recession time, in the "interests" of the health of the Irish nation, excise taxes will go through the roof, even further than now. Remember where you saw this first. The results will be driving demand towards illegal soft and hard drugs. Thats the last thing we need. Fags are bad, booze as bad, but we don't want Charlie, Crystal Meth and its other variants taking over as an option for a night out. At least we know the effects of booze and fags.

Boggles · 19-02-2008 12:25PM

nevf wrote: »

Did you not ever hear of a Tesco clubcard?

Are you joking? Well only a load of people, including a celebrity died from coke before christmas. It's the culture that's wrong, not the where and when we buy it.

The Irish have a history of being alco's! sorry, but it's true. I would much rather have a drink in the pub with my parents rather than going out getting bollocksed every weekend under a tree! It was stupid laws like this which damaged pubs and society, not just off license's.

Sher aren't half the FF backbenchers publicans, and the other half are closely related to publicans. So it will be a very rough, biased law, when it's created.

Oh Dear, see Below.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm

tallaght01 · 19-02-2008 12:46PM

dermo88 wrote: »

Our alcohol problems are bad, but they are nowhere near as bad as Finland. .

The public health of Finland has been studied in much more depth than most other countries, as it happens. Gets drilled into every medical student, as they have data on everything.

The Fins drink much less alcohol than us, on average.

dermo88 wrote: »

Within 5 years, the guns of the department of finance are being lined up. Come recession time, in the "interests" of the health of the Irish nation, excise taxes will go through the roof, even further than now. Remember where you saw this first. The results will be driving demand towards illegal soft and hard drugs.

Out of curiosity, what exactly is it that you think the IMO are asking for?

You Suck! · 19-02-2008 01:29PM

Lets just complete the trend and not hang round any longer. Ban all forms of entertainment outright, legislate and restrict any activities civil servants can care to think of, and place cotton wool dispensers on every citizens door.

Fun is now illegal.

sombaht · 19-02-2008 01:36PM

As others have pointed out its our approach/attitude to alcohol that needs changin not the availability of "cheap" alcohol in the supermarkets and offies. Many other countries have cheap alcohol,(The Netherlands for example) far cheaper than us and widely available yet they dont seem to have the binge drinking culture we have.
We seem to be averse to having a few drinks several times during the week preferring to go out on the weekend and binge for the 2 days of the weekend.

/sombaht

lezizi · 19-02-2008 01:37PM

Drink and drugs for everyone!!

tallaght01 · 19-02-2008 01:43PM

You Suck! wrote: »

Lets just complete the trend and not hang round any longer. Ban all forms of entertainment outright, legislate and restrict any activities civil servants can care to think of, and place cotton wool dispensers on every citizens door.

Fun is now illegal.

There's just no point in my repeatedly saying that you'll stil be able to buy booze to take home, just from alternative venues, if people just want to think that the IMO wants to ban them from drinking lol

I give up. I'll join the civil liberties march.

You Suck! · 19-02-2008 05:18PM

There's just no point in my repeatedly saying that you'll stil be able to buy booze to take home, just from alternative venues, if people just want to think that the IMO wants to ban them from drinking lol

I give up. I'll join the civil liberties march.

It's not even in terms of the topic I say such things, I simply see it this way.......An ever increasing number of regulations in proportion to an ever decreasing repeal of existing regulations. As such this trend only go's one way, where the governments involvement in the lives of everyday people increases to a point of discomfort. Although I do appreciate the civil liberties aspect, I am more concerned from a systemic point of view, and the trend with which our society is tending.

Also of concern to me are two factors, the ever increasing weight of liability and litigious-ness, and the bureaucratic effect of the civil service.

I'll give you a good example of the two in combination, I worked previously within a government agency. During that time a florescent light began to fail with in my work area, all that had to be done was that the bulb or igniter be removed........sound reasonable?

Well no, It was required that the OPW be called out to do such a simple thing.(And that meant waiting up to a week. In the end, the sys admin told the civil servants to go f themselves)
HOW FúCKED IS THAT?!?

We live in a society with two dangerous factors, one being liability, where our legal system has no sense of reason, and the other being our bureaucratic obsessiveness in covering áss. Add to this the belief that we can regulate all problems out of existence with out addressing the underlying causes and the political credit that can be obtained by any politician utilizing such notions, and it's not hard to imagine my previous marks being closer to reality more then humor.

We're not headed for big brother......no....something worse, a society lacking the freedom of spirit that Ireland was once renowned for. For all the wealth gained, I not so sure I look forward to it.

Sleepy · 19-02-2008 07:44PM

tallaght01 wrote: »

There's just no point in my repeatedly saying that you'll stil be able to buy booze to take home, just from alternative venues, if people just want to think that the IMO wants to ban them from drinking lol

I give up. I'll join the civil liberties march.

OK, so imagining that they get this through and only specialised off-licenses are allowed to sell alcohol, what will the likely effects be?

A slew of new off-licenses opening. Potentially chains backed by the likes of Ben Dunne or Michael O' Leary which will have something approaching the same purchasing power as many of the mid-sized supermarket chains (SuperValu etc) and therefore the ability to sell the alcohol at a similar price level (albeit slightly more expensive) to that which it's currently being sold at in supermarkets.

Zero reduction in alcohol consumption. People will either switch to cheaper brands, drink more in pubs (if they can afford it), cut back on other expenditure, import from our EU neighbours or Northern Ireland (both legally and illegaly) or quite likely in current Irish society throw it on the credit card and add to the country's debt burden.

Why the IMO even feel the need to discuss the Groceries Act etc is beyond me. Are the lack of beds in the health system, the closures of public hospitals, the long hours being worked by front-line staff, the lack of funding available for new/replacement staff, the layers of beaurocracy in the HSE, the distancing of the 'Minister' for Health from any responsibility towards that area or the current waiting lists not more pressing issues for the IMO to be commenting on?

tallaght01 · 19-02-2008 11:40PM

Sleepy wrote: »

OK, so imagining that they get this through and only specialised off-licenses are allowed to sell alcohol, what will the likely effects be?

A slew of new off-licenses opening. Potentially chains backed by the likes of Ben Dunne or Michael O' Leary which will have something approaching the same purchasing power as many of the mid-sized supermarket chains (SuperValu etc) and therefore the ability to sell the alcohol at a similar price level (albeit slightly more expensive) to that which it's currently being sold at in supermarkets.

Zero reduction in alcohol consumption. People will either switch to cheaper brands, drink more in pubs (if they can afford it), cut back on other expenditure, import from our EU neighbours or Northern Ireland (both legally and illegaly) or quite likely in current Irish society throw it on the credit card and add to the country's debt burden.

Why the IMO even feel the need to discuss the Groceries Act etc is beyond me. Are the lack of beds in the health system, the closures of public hospitals, the long hours being worked by front-line staff, the lack of funding available for new/replacement staff, the layers of beaurocracy in the HSE, the distancing of the 'Minister' for Health from any responsibility towards that area or the current waiting lists not more pressing issues for the IMO to be commenting on?

A) It doesn't matter who runs these off-licenses. As long as they're selling and (in partricular) marketing and pricing alcohol sensibly. The research shows that out supermarkets' attitude to marketing plays a big part in our alcohol burden.

The IMO do lobby the govt about lack of beds and pressures on staff etc. But it would be naive to think that thi s should be done in isolation. A lot of these problems are made worse because of the significant alcohol-related hospital admissions rate.

The health problems in Ireland need to be addressed in a multifaceted way.

I think the more that the IMO get involved in public health issues, the better.

Sleepy · 20-02-2008 12:03AM

Well, given our governments ability to legislate, don't you think these guys would find the loopholes to allow them to promote their business? NUI, Galway tried this tactic with an alcohol policy which forbid the college bar and university societies and clubs from promoting events based on drinks promotions etc. The effects of this were devestating to college events and only served to line the pockets of a number of Galway publicans who capitalised on the decision by running lowest common denominator nights based around cheap drink. Students started getting their alcohol in Lidl, local off-licenses, Supermarkets, Garages, etc. and as this went on it was pretty easy to track the decline of the college's community spirit and the rise of smallet groups of people getting hammered together instead. So what do we learn from this? People will work around restrictions on alcohol sale, they'll still find ways of getting pissed, these tactics just move the problem instead of solving them and can destroy other things too. Just one example I can forsee already with a policy like this is that of smaller rural communities which can't sustain a separate off-license / shop / garage etc.

Any lobby group will be more effective if they stick to a core issue or a small set of issues that they're actually qualified to speak on. In the IMO's case, these issues should be medical ones imho, not social change.

To summarise, it's a short-sighted move that won't improve anything and the IMO are, imho, operating outside of their remit and area of expertise with a sensationalist tactic such as this.

Nevyn · 20-02-2008 12:16AM

Sleepy wrote: »

OK, so imagining that they get this through and only specialised off-licenses are allowed to sell alcohol, what will the likely effects be?

It will prolly run like Canada there is no alcohol advertising,
you must be over 21 and have id,
there is a limit to how much you can buy at once,
you by it in an argos ware house set up you ask for what you want by name and get handed it over the counter.

tallaght01 · 20-02-2008 12:41AM

Sleepy wrote: »

Well, given our governments ability to legislate, don't you think these guys would find the loopholes to allow them to promote their business? NUI, Galway tried this tactic with an alcohol policy which forbid the college bar and university societies and clubs from promoting events based on drinks promotions etc. The effects of this were devestating to college events and only served to line the pockets of a number of Galway publicans who capitalised on the decision by running lowest common denominator nights based around cheap drink. Students started getting their alcohol in Lidl, local off-licenses, Supermarkets, Garages, etc. and as this went on it was pretty easy to track the decline of the college's community spirit and the rise of smallet groups of people getting hammered together instead. So what do we learn from this? People will work around restrictions on alcohol sale, they'll still find ways of getting pissed, these tactics just move the problem instead of solving them and can destroy other things too. Just one example I can forsee already with a policy like this is that of smaller rural communities which can't sustain a separate off-license / shop / garage etc.

Any lobby group will be more effective if they stick to a core issue or a small set of issues that they're actually qualified to speak on. In the IMO's case, these issues should be medical ones imho, not social change.

To summarise, it's a short-sighted move that won't improve anything and the IMO are, imho, operating outside of their remit and area of expertise with a sensationalist tactic such as this.

Outside their area of remit? Are you serious? Do you know the effect that alcohol has on the health of our population, and the healthcare system??

There is no "core issue" with the Irish healthcare system, or nay healthcare system. Medical unions around the world campaign on all kinds of "social" issues, such as gender equality and health inequality, smoking, alcohol and drug abuse.

Public health is a medical specialty, and therefore concerns docs. Much of the research carried out around the world into alcohol behaviour, and modification of it is carried out by doctors.

You're basing your views on NUI Galway, where there are other sources of very cheap booze, such as Lidl.

That wouldn't be the case if this new legislation was enforced. Certainly it wouldn't be easy to get extremely cheap booze.

Sleepy · 20-02-2008 12:44AM

Hmm, can't see our government going for that since so many pubs have off-licenses attached. Nor can I see them getting away with increasing the age limit.

The banning of alcohol advertising thing I could see happening and could support.

Boggles · 20-02-2008 12:49AM

Thaedydal wrote: »

It will prolly run like Canada there is no alcohol advertising,
you must be over 21 and have id,
there is a limit to how much you can buy at once,
you by it in an argos ware house set up you ask for what you want by name and get handed it over the counter.

The ban on alcohol advertising in Canada has had no effect on reducing consumption, in some provinces it has actually risen. Also the limit on how much you can buy has given rise to people brewing their own, suppose to be a huge problem at the moment. I suppose instead of having your 5 percent larger you have your 87 % guarantee to blind you home brew.

tallaght01 · 20-02-2008 12:57AM

Boggles wrote: »

The ban on alcohol advertising in Canada has had no effect on reducing consumption, in some provinces it has actually risen. Also the limit on how much you can buy has given rise to people brewing their own, suppose to be a huge problem at the moment. I suppose instead of having your 5 percent larger you have your 87 % guarantee to blind you home brew.

Would be interesting to see those stats. Have you got a link to the paper?

I know Canada has a much lower alcohol consumption than we do, per person.

It's still not all that comparable to what's being proposed here, there has been no pricing restrictions put in place in Canada (or at least that's my understandig of it)

Sleepy · 20-02-2008 12:58AM

tallaght01 wrote: »

Outside their area of remit? Are you serious? Do you know the effect that alcohol has on the health of our population, and the healthcare system??

There is no "core issue" with the Irish healthcare system, or nay healthcare system. Medical unions around the world campaign on all kinds of "social" issues, such as gender equality and health inequality, smoking, alcohol and drug abuse.

In my opinion the IMO should be mainly concerned with the provision of medical care. Given that it's something the HSE is currently failing so badly at surely this should be their primary objective right now? Trying to run too many campaigns at once will only serve to dilute the impact of those campaigns.

Public health is a medical specialty, and therefore concerns docs. Much of the research carried out around the world into alcohol behaviour, and modification of it is carried out by doctors.

You're basing your views on NUI Galway, where there are other sources of very cheap booze, such as Lidl.

That wouldn't be the case if this new legislation was enforced. Certainly it wouldn't be easy to get extremely cheap booze.

No? I remember making 30 litres of pretty strong peach schnappes for about twenty quid whilst I was broke in college. The Irish public at large aren't idiots. they're resourceful and as a nation we're fairly reknowned for loving to "beat the system". Measures like the IMO are suggesting would just be seen as another system to work around and work around it they would. TBH, the entire idea smacks of condescension to me.

Legislation as suggested wouldn't apply up north and our borders with the north are hardly well patrolled these days. As it stands there are businesses all along the border advertising cheap crates of beer, fireworks etc and doing so entirely legally.

If they were to call for the banning of alcohol companies sponsoring sporting and music events, television, radio & media advertising on the part of the drinks companies (akin to the advertising bans on cigarettes) while still allowing POS advertising etc I'd agree with this as an effort to reduce the 'coolness' of alchol brands to children and young teens as long as it was accompanied by a strong education program promoting sensible usage of alcohol (some of the ads at the moment are reasonably good but it doesn't help that they're followed by some the best ads I can remember over the last decade for Guinness, Coors etc.).

Boggles · 20-02-2008 01:08AM

tallaght01 wrote: »

Would be interesting to see those stats. Have you got a link to the paper?

I know Canada has a much lower alcohol consumption than we do, per person.

It's still not all that comparable to what's being proposed here, there has been no pricing restrictions put in place in Canada (or at least that's my understandig of it)

Mate of mine is a doctor in Canada, was talking with him at Christmas.

As for comparing alcohol consumption with Ireland, the Paddies trump nearly all.

tallaght01 · 20-02-2008 01:17AM

Sleepy wrote: »

In my opinion the IMO should be mainly concerned with the provision of medical care. Given that it's something the HSE is currently failing so badly at surely this should be their primary objective right now? Trying to run too many campaigns at once will only serve to dilute the impact of those campaigns.

Since when? The IMO, and the medical professions aren't just concerned about sickness. We're concerned about health.

The provision of healthcare deals with sick people (mostly). Preventative health deals with stopping people becoming sick. This is as important as any other part of medicine. Huge amounts of doctor training are spent on health promotion and public health.

Sleepy wrote: »

No? I remember making 30 litres of pretty strong peach schnappes for about twenty quid whilst I was broke in college. The Irish public at large aren't idiots. they're resourceful and as a nation we're fairly reknowned for loving to "beat the system". Measures like the IMO are suggesting would just be seen as another system to work around and work around it they would. TBH, the entire idea smacks of condescension to me.

Legislation as suggested wouldn't apply up north and our borders with the north are hardly well patrolled these days. As it stands there are businesses all along the border advertising cheap crates of beer, fireworks etc and doing so entirely legally.

If they were to call for the banning of alcohol companies sponsoring sporting and music events, television, radio & media advertising on the part of the drinks companies (akin to the advertising bans on cigarettes) while still allowing POS advertising etc I'd agree with this as an effort to reduce the 'coolness' of alchol brands to children and young teens as long as it was accompanied by a strong education program promoting sensible usage of alcohol (some of the ads at the moment are reasonably good but it doesn't help that they're followed by some the best ads I can remember over the last decade for Guinness, Coors etc.).

You can't legislate for those who are absoloutely determined to get cheap booze.

We don't support cheap drugs and cigarettes, just because some people will get around the system. That kind of defeatism is, sadly, a very Irish attitude.

The IMO have repeatedly called for a ban on alcohol advertising for several years. The government has ignored them completely. It was even sold to them as a breach of the human rights of a child (under human rights law, kids have the right not to be exposed to negative effects of alcohol).

This is another attemp to get the government to do something other than sit on their arses about this problem.

The IMO is also a strong advocate of alcohol education programmes.

Btw, I was just looking at Canada's alcohol stats. Their rates of alcohol consumption have certainly showna downward trend. But I'm having difficulty linking it to the ban on ads (not that the effects will be seen short term). My problem is that I can't find a good source telling me what exactly is the restriction in place in Canada. Some sites are saying there was just a one year ban. Is this true? Does it effect all states?

tallaght01 · 20-02-2008 01:19AM

Boggles wrote: »

Mate of mine is a doctor in Canada, was talking with him at Christmas.

As for comparing alcohol consumption with Ireland, the Paddies trump nearly all.

The only data I can find in the literature to support what your friend says was in a paper detailing how alcohol consumption in Ontario went up a year after a ban was introduced.

It went up the same as in the rest of the contry...so the advertisig ban had no effect one year on. That would be no surprise to me. This has to be a long term strategy.

layke · 20-02-2008 01:27AM

Clearing out alcohol from supermarkets only creates less competition, raises prices and brings all the power back to the pubs. I would also like to point out a good few of our friends in politics happen to own a few of these said pubs.

The solution to this problem is not to stop people drinking, more so those who do stupid ****ing things when they do drink. Hefty fines for coming into A&E. why should I, the hard working Joe who has never had to avail of our 'fine' healthcare service have to suffer at the hands of a few f**ktards?

Doctors seek ban to remove alcohol from shelves

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