Doctors seek ban to remove alcohol from shelves

bronte · 18-02-2008 06:45PM

5starpool wrote: »

I'm sure the VFI are fully behind this drive 'for the youth of ireland' of course.

Agreed, that was the first thing that went through my head when I heard this.

Pherekydes · 18-02-2008 07:04PM

is_that_so wrote: »

I think it's more aimed at the attitude of supermarkets and other outlets. Easy access day and night to relatively cheap gargle helps build a habit.

France has much cheaper alcohol available in its supermarkets but it doesn't have any such drink problem.

So the problem is not easy access or cheap alcohol. It's to do with the culture of binge drinking in this country and next door.

AngryBadger · 18-02-2008 07:16PM

More nanny-state crap-arama.

As has been said, the vintners are losing a tonne of money to retailers, theyt've been kicking up a storm about this for weeks now.No surprise here so.

subway · 18-02-2008 07:21PM

prohibition worked very well in the US in the 30s,
it has also helped eradicate cocaine, heroin and most of all cannabis usage.

i think this is a wonderful idea and will surely not lead to people simply getting there drink somewhere else...

Wertz · 18-02-2008 07:38PM

Protectionist move from vintners since the groceries act and smoking ban pulled the rug out from under them. This isn't about mine or your health....it's all about profit margins or lack thereof...

Anyone hear the proposal on the Last Word last week for "credit" cards that a user would need to purchase a set amount of alcohol? The idea was basically that everyone had a unit allowance; when you bought drink the card would be swiped (like slipss' system) and when you used up your allowance, that was it, no more drink thill next day....I mean they propose pie in the sky sh*t like this and they can't even organise a proper national ID card system.

Boggles · 18-02-2008 08:32PM

Wertz wrote: »

Protectionist move from vintners since the groceries act and smoking ban pulled the rug out from under them. This isn't about mine or your health....it's all about profit margins or lack thereof...

Anyone hear the proposal on the Last Word last week for "credit" cards that a user would need to purchase a set amount of alcohol? The idea was basically that everyone had a unit allowance; when you bought drink the card would be swiped (like slipss' system) and when you used up your allowance, that was it, no more drink thill next day....I mean they propose pie in the sky sh*t like this and they can't even organise a proper national ID card system.

My God!! Can you put 3 cans on this card, 2 cans on this card, how many points is a bottle of bucky?

What genius had that idea?

Sam Vimes · 18-02-2008 08:35PM

i agree with the doctors but i think we should go even further and ban alcohol altogether. we banned cocaine and nobody does that anymore

Hoochiemama · 18-02-2008 08:55PM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

i agree with the doctors but i think we should go even further and ban alcohol altogether. we banned cocaine and nobody does that anymore

How wrong are you??? Cocaine is rampant in Ireland, Rampant with a capital R!!!! As is ecstasy cannabis and to some extent heroin.

Banning drugs is only trying to hide the problem.

Completely banning alcohol would cause uproar and drive it underground so along with all other banned substances you'll have to go to a dealer to get it which, mark my word, people would do and you'd be paying extortionates amount of money for p*ss poor beer.

Boggles · 18-02-2008 08:59PM

Hoochiemama wrote: »

How wrong are you??? Cocaine is rampant in Ireland, Rampant with a capital R!!!! As is ecstasy cannabis and to some extent heroin.

Banning drugs is only trying to hide the problem.

Completely banning alcohol would cause uproar and drive it underground so along with all other banned substances you'll have to go to a dealer to get it which, mark my word, people would do and you'd be paying extortionates amount of money for p*ss poor beer.

Oh Dear!

grumpytrousers · 18-02-2008 09:05PM

Hoochiemama wrote: »

How wrong are you??? Cocaine is rampant in Ireland, Rampant with a capital R!!!! As is ecstasy cannabis and to some extent heroin.

Banning drugs is only trying to hide the problem.

Completely banning alcohol would cause uproar and drive it underground so along with all other banned substances you'll have to go to a dealer to get it which, mark my word, people would do and you'd be paying extortionates amount of money for p*ss poor beer.

*taps sarcasm-detection-ometer*

Davidius · 18-02-2008 09:22PM

Seeing as it's against the law to advertise cigarettes, they should really get around to doing the same for the old poison alcohol. Yup.

Boggles · 18-02-2008 09:27PM

Good point, not only have they banned adverts of the old smokes, they also put up anti adverts, sqeezing the tar out of a lung and all that. How come they don't have video of a pickled liver???

They do have the adds of the fella acting the gimp in the pub falling around the place, but he is an arssehole, it is more an anti arsshole add than anti drinking.

Sam Vimes · 18-02-2008 09:38PM

Hoochiemama wrote: »

How wrong are you??? Cocaine is rampant in Ireland, Rampant with a capital R!!!! As is ecstasy cannabis and to some extent heroin.

emmmmmmmmm.....

Dennis the Stone · 18-02-2008 09:39PM

They do have the adds of the fella acting the gimp in the pub falling around the place, but he is an arssehole, it is more an anti arsshole add than anti drinking.

that's a good point, it's really patronising to be told the whole time that drinking a bit too much turns you into an arsewipe. Only some people.

4Xcut · 18-02-2008 09:49PM

As was stated before, its not easy access, its the mentality. People will drink if they want to. However, there is a lack of responsibility in pubs/nightclubs. There was a time when a publican would say to someone when they had enough. Now i'm not suggesting that we allow publicans to police alcohol consumption but if someone can barely see and stand, i think its time they had a glass of water.

But, banning alcohol is a stupid idea. It won't remove it and it is a violation of personal liberty. But more importantly, we may as well let stupid people drink themselves to death and out of the gene pool before they have a chance to breed.:D

2tel1 · 18-02-2008 09:50PM

It's the idiot who can't handle their drink

'Ol Jack Chance · 18-02-2008 09:53PM

I agree with above posters that its a mentality thing not where the booze is sold/marketed. On a side note if i were a coke head id defo stop doing it after seeing them new government adverts. :rolleyes: careful now!

Sleepy · 18-02-2008 09:54PM

Yup, first thought that went through my head was 'did the Vintners pay for this?' too...

The sheer idiocy of this makes the mind boggle.

18-02-2008 10:10PM

This is a fantastic idea.

I would definitly ban drink advertising. It's driving the price of alcohol up having to advertise it. I know it's there. I'll come get it. Don't you worry about your ads.

As for Vimes and Cocainne .. are you crazy man? Have you not heard about this countrys drug problem?

Wertz · 18-02-2008 10:21PM

Boggles wrote: »

My God!! Can you put 3 cans on this card, 2 cans on this card, how many points is a bottle of bucky?

What genius had that idea?

I only caught the middle and end...I don't think it was a politician, probably someone from the alcohol equivalent of ASH. I don't know how some of these people get airtime.
Imagine the trade in unused points or people getting mugged for their swipe card. I'd say it'll stay imagination.

*passes out batteries for Sarcasm-o-meters*

buckfast4me · 18-02-2008 11:41PM

Wertz wrote: »

Protectionist move from vintners since the groceries act and smoking ban pulled the rug out from under them. This isn't about mine or your health....it's all about profit margins or lack thereof...

Anyone hear the proposal on the Last Word last week for "credit" cards that a user would need to purchase a set amount of alcohol? The idea was basically that everyone had a unit allowance; when you bought drink the card would be swiped (like slipss' system) and when you used up your allowance, that was it, no more drink thill next day....I mean they propose pie in the sky sh*t like this and they can't even organise a proper national ID card system.

ROFL.. this country. last week some government headcase suggested switching ireland to driving on the right side of the road, now this alcohol credit card.. what are they smokin in the dail???

Tha Gopher · 18-02-2008 11:44PM

Why oh why do people have to bore the arse off us in these threads with their make heroin legal agendas?

Alcohol isnt widely enough available here. Its an outrage that in this day and age you cant legally or easily buy alcohol for a house party at 2am on a Sunday if the situation arises. What is the point in this anyway? Because its usually more expensive than the supermarkets or proper offys people only buy beer from petrol stations and Spars when they are stuck or cant be arsed walking the extra distance.

Gizmodeon · 19-02-2008 12:14AM

I agree that the government shouldn't be nannying alcohol abusers.
Hell they're closing portran...then advertise to "to take care of your mental health"
haven't got a clue....

a huge amount of people stopped drinking in pubs because of the smoking ban, now this? can people drink nowhere now?

if they want to stop people drinking so much, open up coffee bars and wine bars at night to give people somewhere to sit and chill. have a decible limit on the music level in pubs (not clubs) cause we all know you drink more if you can't talk or hear anyone, and deal with the serious mental health problems in the country. too realistic?

ziggy · 19-02-2008 12:22AM

This post has been deleted.

rubadub · 19-02-2008 12:28AM

MIN2511 wrote: »

He said "profit-seeking behaviour" by supermarkets had taken no account of the health and social consequences of drinking alcohol.
"Off-trade sales should be through specialist off-licences, where issues such as staff training and responsible server programmes, as advocated by the Government's Strategic Task Force on Alcohol, would have more effect."

Sweet Jesus, this should be in the conspiracy theory forum, is he really claiming supermarkets are trying to make profits, scoop!
Why are supermarkets unable to train staff in the same manner as "specialist off-licences" staff could? I see as many offers in the offie as in supermarkets these days, if not more.

Wertz wrote: »

Protectionist move from vintners since the groceries act and smoking ban pulled the rug out from under them. This isn't about mine or your health....it's all about profit margins or lack thereof.

Yep, and politicians & publicans go together like money & brown envelopes.

GrahamThomas · 19-02-2008 12:34AM

Hoochiemama wrote: »

Completely banning alcohol would cause uproar and drive it underground so along with all other banned substances you'll have to go to a dealer to get it which, mark my word, people would do and you'd be paying extortionates amount of money for p*ss poor beer.

You obviously haven't been in a pub recently, have you?

But seriously the issue here is definitely the Irish peoples incredibly irresponsible attitude towards drink, and a proposal like the one suggested would only further line the pockets of vested interests like the VFI.

And of course the government will probably come out in favor of it, as these days they only seem concerned with churning out nonsensical, knee-jerk policies that make no sense here in the real world.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 19-02-2008 01:33AM

Ah kneejerkery, there'l just be booze2gos everywhere, infact, I may open one!

Seriously though if they wanna do something why not just ban advertising alcohol

tallaght01 · 19-02-2008 02:10AM

Well, why let the frenzy get in the way of looking at what exactly the IMO said?

Home drinking is at the root of most alcohol problems. Therefore, it's been something the medical profession, along with the govt, have tried to tackle for years.

Nobody would suggest taking away anyone's right to drink at home (god forbid).

So, the supermarkets were approached. Voluntary regulation was asked for, in terms of sensible advertising, lack of cheap-ass booze promos, and a consistent service policy.

Most supermarkets ignored this for many years, so have essentially forfeitted the right to self regulation. IN particular their marketig strategies gave no thought to the social consequences of alcohol.

Therefore, what the IMO have asked for is that alcohol takeouts should only be sold in specialist off licenses. These shops would be regulated in terms of minimum prices, controls of promos, who they serve, and how much alcohol they serve. They would have to send staff on "responsible server" programmes etc.

It may not work. But it hardly spells the end of your civil liberties, and it's better than making no effort to curb the enormous problem with drink in Ireland.

The one thing I would add, though, would be better free alcohol services for thos who choose to give up.

rubadub · 19-02-2008 02:19AM

Hoochiemama wrote: »

Did anyone watch that documentary last week about the top 20 most dangerous drugs?? Alcohol was 5th - thats higher that tobacco, cannabis, ecstacy & LSD and was said to be kill more people that all these drugs combined per year

tallaght01 wrote: »

Nobody would suggest taking away anyone's right to drink at home (god forbid).

Logically following the current drugs laws you should certainly not be allowed to drink at home. And I presume many would like to see an all out ban, just as many approve of the banning of other recreational drugs. It is hypocritial not to ban it. Either ban it or not, I couldn't care less, but apply the same criteria to all substances.

tallaght01 wrote: »

So, the supermarkets were approached. Voluntary regulation was asked for, in terms of sensible advertising, lack of cheap-ass booze promos, and a consistent service policy.

Most supermarkets ignored this for many years, so have essentially forfeitted the right to self regulation. IN particular their marketig strategies gave no thought to the social consequences of alcohol.

Therefore, what the IMO have asked for is that alcohol takeouts should only be sold in specialist off licenses. These shops would be regulated in terms of minimum prices, controls of promos, who they serve, and how much alcohol they serve. They would have to send staff on "responsible server" programmes etc..

Why could this not work with supermarkets too? Why can supermarket staff not become "responsible servers"?
What defines a supermarket? Many supervalus have a separate sort of offie, drink can be brought back into the regular store, but what if you could only buy it in the offie section?
And as I mentioned, many offies do have offers like supermarkets. What will the definition of "supermarket" be. What happens if dunnes set up their own chain of supermarkets?

tallaght01 · 19-02-2008 02:33AM

rubadub wrote: »

Logically following the current drugs laws you should certainly not be allowed to drink at home. And I presume many would like to see an all out ban, just as many approve of the banning of other recreational drugs. It is hypocritial not to ban it. Either ban it or not, I couldn't care less, but apply the same criteria to all substances.

Why could this not work with supermarkets too? Why can supermarket staff not become "responsible servers"?
What defines a supermarket? Many supervalus have a separate sort of offie, drink can be brought back into the regular store, but what if you could only buy it in the offie section?
And as I mentioned, many offies do have offers like supermarkets. What will the definition of "supermarket" be. What happens if dunnes set up their own chain of supermarkets?

It's not hypocritical not to ban alcohol entirely. Recreational drugs ahve always ben illegal in Ireland. If you got addicted, you did so through an illegal action.

If you're addicted to alcohol, then you became addicted to a legal substance. It would be cruel and inhumane to ban alcohol unless we had the mother of all acohol rehab programmes.

Plus the vintners are too powerful a lobby group, and the public would vote out a govt who banned alcohol at the next election.

I don't know i there's a definition of a supermarket, but there's a definition of an off license.

It could be done in supermarkets. They were offered voluntary regulation, and they blew it.

Doctors seek ban to remove alcohol from shelves

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