Useless Degrees

16-02-2008 08:03AM

The problem is these days is that a degree now is worth as much as the Leaving Cert was 10 years ago. I have an undergrad and postgrad in engineering and I am still having difficulty getting a job in the field I want. (Lack of experience)

Unless you are in a course where there is a shortage of workers, (acountancy, chemical engineering, medicine) I feel that further study is worth it to get the job you want.

the dee · 16-02-2008 09:27AM

I have a Bachelor of Arts in English and Philosophy and a Masters of Philosophy in Gender Studies. I have absolutely no trouble finding work. Since I finished college I've worked in the public and private sectors - earned enough to spend 8 months in Australia.

Unless you want to do a job that absolutely requires a certain skill, then any degree will get you ahead in the jobs market. You've demonstrated an ability to learn and commit to and see through major projects. It shows that you're intelligent and can handle pressure.

I was really interested in what I studied, had a lot of fun in college. Don't let anyone put you off doing a so-called 'useless' degree if that's the area you're interested in. Go for it. No degree affects your career prospects negatively.

tallaght01 · 16-02-2008 09:30AM

There are some bollocks degrees out there. I remember being at uni with people studying all sorts of rubbish that had no real career prospects.

Now, I have no real problem with that, as education is no burden etc. But I do feel that a lot of uni prospectuses are less than honest about your chances of getting employment in your chosen field.

I know a LOT of people who I went to uni with that are now working in jobs that they didn't need a degree for.

Having said that, a degree will give you some transferable skills. I know a guy who did his degree in sports science. I shared a flat with him and he went out on the lash pretty much solidly for 4 years. But he's earning more than I am in the city now (got on to some graduate finance training programme with a big company).

Most of his class are doing nothing with their degrees though, in fairness.

the dee · 16-02-2008 09:39AM

I don't like the idea that you have to 'do something with your degree', as in work in that specific field forever. How many jobs to you see posted for 'philosopher'? Zero. How many employers will hire someone with a philosophy degree? Thousands.

Having a degree starts you off in a good place on the employment ladder. After that, as any employer will tell you, it's about how capable you are, how fast you learn and how much 'real life' work experience you have.

A general degree means you can work in almost any industry and sector. You're not tied down to a job description like 'engineer' 'accountant' 'lab technician' etc.

Ekancone · 16-02-2008 09:53AM

the dee wrote: »

I have a Bachelor of Arts in English and Philosophy and a Masters of Philosophy in Gender Studies. I have absolutely no trouble finding work. Since I finished college I've worked in the public and private sectors - earned enough to spend 8 months in Australia.

Unless you want to do a job that absolutely requires a certain skill, then any degree will get you ahead in the jobs market. You've demonstrated an ability to learn and commit to and see through major projects. It shows that you're intelligent and can handle pressure.

I was really interested in what I studied, had a lot of fun in college. Don't let anyone put you off doing a so-called 'useless' degree if that's the area you're interested in. Go for it. No degree affects your career prospects negatively.

Agreed, if you can get a first class honors in a degree you have proven yourslef to be a capable employee for any company. There are many people out there who have arts degrees and have a mundane job, but ask them what grade they got in their degree and many of them got a 2.2. Not worth the paper it is written on unfortunately.

Ekancone · 16-02-2008 09:55AM

witnessmenow wrote: »

what does someone with an arts degree say to you?
"Do you want fries with that?"

NUIG recently replaced toilet paper with roll of arts degrees as there less useful

I knew you were an engineer before i read your response below. I bet you are one of those guys who says: 'Why would anyone study philosophy'?

:rolleyes:

witnessmenow · 16-02-2008 12:51PM

daithifleming wrote: »

I knew you were an engineer before i read your response below. I bet you are one of those guys who says: 'Why would anyone study philosophy'?

:rolleyes:

There is no mathematical equation there so that question must not be for me!:p

I'll let the philosiphisers answer that question!They'll get back to you after the right their essay on "If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?"!

Philosophy degrees are very useful. You need one to become a priest.

Ekancone · 16-02-2008 01:23PM

witnessmenow wrote: »

There is no mathematical equation there so that question must not be for me!:p

I'll let the philosiphisers answer that question!They'll get back to you after the right their essay on "If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?"!

Philosophy degrees are very useful. You need one to become a priest.

So the only reason for studying a degree is to get a job? You engineers really have trouble thinking outside the box, don't you? True to form!

16-02-2008 01:31PM

daithifleming wrote: »

So the only reason for studying a degree is to get a job? You engineers really have trouble thinking outside the box, don't you? True to form!

Exactly. Why think outside the box? The box is obviously big enough as is!

In all seriousness, I agree with rb_ie.

Pherekydes · 16-02-2008 01:36PM

daithifleming wrote: »

So the only reason for studying a degree is to get a job? You engineers really have trouble thinking outside the box, don't you? True to form!

Unfortunately, most people think that way. Most of my family or my wife's family asked me what the degree qualified me to do. It's difficult explaining to such people that a degree is not a qualification. I did mine for my own personal satisfaction.

One woman I used work with asked me did I always like Art (when I told her it was an Arts degree).

4Xcut · 16-02-2008 01:48PM

There has to be a balance. There's no point in studying something interesting if it doesn't benefit you career all that much. You could study it yourself without college. Likewise, there's no point in picking a degree that you have no interest in or very little interest in just to get a job.

The idea of arts degrees being pointless is one i had up untill i decided to do one. Picked an interesting subject and a more grounded one. College isn't just about the degree you get either. Its about doing an assignment that's supposed to take a month in a weekend and still getting a good grade. Where else prepares you for deadlines like that. Its about balancing a social life with academic commitments. Its about all the experiences that you get along the way.

Ekancone · 16-02-2008 01:59PM

4Xcut wrote: »

There has to be a balance. There's no point in studying something interesting if it doesn't benefit you career all that much. You could study it yourself without college. Likewise, there's no point in picking a degree that you have no interest in or very little interest in just to get a job.

The idea of arts degrees being pointless is one i had up untill i decided to do one. Picked an interesting subject and a more grounded one. College isn't just about the degree you get either. Its about doing an assignment that's supposed to take a month in a weekend and still getting a good grade. Where else prepares you for deadlines like that. Its about balancing a social life with academic commitments. Its about all the experiences that you get along the way.

I disagree. I know an engineer who is doing a social sciences degree as we speak. He fully intends to go back to engineering and he only did the degree to broaden his range of thinking. He is in his final year now and he is delighted with his decison. So it doesnt all have to be about a career. Some people do a degree when they retire to take part in something that intellectually challenges them. There is more to doing a degree than just some myopic career path, its about challenging yourself and expanding your mind.

4Xcut · 16-02-2008 02:02PM

I said that it WASN'T all about career but rather that a balance had to be struck. He is doing as degree that he is interested in now and that's good. But he also has a more employable degree which he intends to go back to.

the dee · 16-02-2008 02:16PM

Any degree will get you a job. You only need a specific degree if you want a specific job that you need that degree for.

Dudess · 16-02-2008 02:26PM

embee wrote: »

I started an Arts degree donkeys years ago but it was a load of old shyte so I left it.

When I worked in a call centre, half the people working there had Arts Degrees.

LOL so true! I was the same as you, embee. I started an arts degree straight after school and just couldn't see the point in learning about postmodernism and post-structuralism. I was of the view at the time that a course should serve a practical purpose. I felt I was wasting my time so I dropped out, got an office job and did a couple of night courses in computer skills.
But for the next few years, while I was part of the "rat race", I started to feel something was missing. Suddenly I craved learning, so I went back and finished my arts degree - only this time I absolutely loved it. I was of course older and more mature and I was willing to learn and acquire new knowledge simply because it was interesting, not because it would necessarily lead to a career path. During this time, I became interested in the media and got involved with the college radio station and newspaper. Then I did a masters in journalism.
So while an arts degree won't always get you far in terms of your career (well an arts degree comprising any subjects besides computer science and economics!) it's good as a foundation - you can always use it to do a postgrad in a more specialised area.

witnessmenow · 16-02-2008 02:29PM

if your sole purpose of doing a course is to broaden your thinking and because you enjoy learning thats fine by me , in fact its great. But do you really need a piece of paper at the end accomplish the above?

Well no, you don't, and if it doesn't make you more employable it doesn't have much use does it? Quite a useless degree! Which is what this thread is about.

You'll have to quote me where i said that it was a useless course, or a waste of time.

I'm still in college, and I enjoy what i do. I get some money of my parents to go to college (e.g rent) now if your in the same situation as me and you can justify getting money off your parents to go to college to learn a degree that does not boost job prospects , good for you. And If your paying for yourself to do the same better for you again.

Mr. CooL ICE · 16-02-2008 02:31PM

A guy I know finished 2nd in his class with a Computer Engineering degree last year, and now lives and works in Luxembourg as a stockbroker!

Dudess · 16-02-2008 02:34PM

I have heard of a number of people working as stockbrokers after doing computer science and electrical engineering degrees - they're not that far apart.

witnessmenow, a "useless degree" often will boost your job prospects though. Simply having a degree (whatever it's in) on your CV can make a person more attractive to an employer.

Plus, while a degree in philosophy and sociology doesn't have much practical value on the face of it, who says you have to stop there? You can always use it to do a practical post-grad.

I have heard anecdotally that the masters in journalism I did is held in higher regard than the degree in journalism at the same college - I suppose the fact that it's a postgrad, which requires a high mark in the degree.
Yet I did a "useless" undergrad - a BA in English and Sociology.

Ekancone · 16-02-2008 02:35PM

witnessmenow wrote: »

if your sole purpose of doing a course is to broaden your thinking and because you enjoy learning thats fine by me , in fact its great. But do you really need a piece of paper at the end accomplish the above?

Well no, you don't, and if it doesn't make you more employable it doesn't have much use does it? Quite a useless degree! Which is what this thread is about.

You'll have to quote me where i said that it was a useless course, or a waste of time.

I'm still in college, and I enjoy what i do. I get some money of my parents to go to college (e.g rent) now if your in the same situation as me and you can justify getting money off your parents to go to college to learn a degree that does not boost job prospects , good for you. And If your paying for yourself to do the same better for you again.

Because you don't get challenged when you attempt to study something on your own. Its only when you are pressured into acheiving grades and writing essays/reports that you truely engage with the subject and gain real knowledge of it.

Im really suprised you can't see this, why are engineers always so closed minded?

the dee · 16-02-2008 02:36PM

witnessmenow wrote: »

Well no, you don't, and if it doesn't make you more employable it doesn't have much use does it? Quite a useless degree!

An arts degree, any degree makes you more employable. No degree is useless.

16-02-2008 02:38PM

I never went to uni for the job point of view, I went to learn. I got a masters in theoretical phys & maths last year. I had no idea what to do with it after i'd given up on the phd idea but I'm happy now. I guess maths opens enough doors for you.
Some arts degrees dont seem... practical, but learning for learning's sake is always a good thing

Dudess · 16-02-2008 02:40PM

And are you working now? Why didn't you go for your PhD?

Just being nosey

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 16-02-2008 02:52PM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Did a journalism degree, now working as a journalist. My degree served its purpose, plus the three years of college were the best craic ever. All good really.

I've always been confused by Journalism as a degree subject. It's a bloody career, not an academic subject. The only really way to be a good journalist is through a combination of natural talent, experience, a shed-load of connections, oh, and balls.

An academic degree in English might help

witnessmenow · 16-02-2008 02:52PM

I'm really surprised you cant get your head around this. let me break it down: 2 people go to college to study a course to broaden their minds, 1 of them doesn't sit there final exams, has he/she broaden his/her mind less by not getting a degree? So for the purpose of broadening the mind is a degree useful?

I will have to back track and agree with the people that said any degree makes you more employable. No degree is truely useless if you intend to use it.

Dudess · 16-02-2008 03:02PM

Sean_K wrote: »

I've always been confused by Journalism as a degree subject. It's a bloody career, not an academic subject. The only really way to be a good journalist is through a combination of natural talent, experience, a shed-load of connections, oh, and balls.

100% in agreement with you there, but nowadays, so many journalists under the age of 35 have done some course in it. I worked part-time with a newspaper all through my degree (in an admin capacity) and decided I'd like to make a go of journalism as a career. Every person of my age bracket in that paper had done a course. The course won't make a better journalist by any means, but it's a stepping stone and an important one at that, it seems.

An academic degree in English might help

Good god, no way! How on earth does an English degree have any relevance to journalism?! There's a notion that those who study English will be good writers - not true. Studying English isn't going to help improve your grammar, punctuation and spelling skills - well it will if a lecturer hauls you up on it, but lecturers do that in other disciplines, not just English.
Anyway, to be a good journalist, it's your ability to sniff out a news story that makes you employable, not your writing. In an ideal world you would be a good writer too, but the two things don't necessarily go hand in hand. Having worked as a sub-editor I know of well known journalists who are crap writers! But they have excellent news sense...
If anything, I think a more beneficial arts degree for aspiring journalists would be a politics one.

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 16-02-2008 03:05PM

Dudess wrote: »

Good god, no way! How on earth does an English degree have any relevance to journalism?! There's a notion that those who study English will be good writers - not true. Studying English isn't going to help improve your grammar, punctuation and spelling skills - well it will if a lecturer hauls you up on it, but lecturers do that in other disciplines, not just English.
Anyway, to be a good journalist, it's your ability to sniff out a news story that makes you employable, not your writing. In an ideal world you would be a good writer too, but the two things don't necessarily go hand in hand. Having worked as a sub-editor I know of well known journalists who are crap writers! But they have excellent news sense...
If anything, I think a more beneficial arts degree for would-be journalists would be a politics one.

Yea, in retrospect, I don't know why I said that

16-02-2008 03:09PM

Dudess wrote: »

And are you working now? Why didn't you go for your PhD?

Just being nosey

I hated the physics courses, didnt study at all and didn't do too well onthe msc, got a 3rd borderline 2-2

Yeah, I'm an actuary now

I'm glad I didn't do it, I think now it wouldnt have been my thing. Maybe sometime in the future, I don't know.

Ekancone · 16-02-2008 03:11PM

witnessmenow wrote: »

I'm really surprised you cant get your head around this. let me break it down: 2 people go to college to study a course to broaden their minds, 1 of them doesn't sit there final exams, has he/she broaden his/her mind less by not getting a degree? So for the purpose of broadening the mind is a degree useful?

Yes, if you engage with the subject. If you don't, you may as well be working in a call centre earning money.

witnessmenow wrote: »

I will have to back track and agree with the people that said any degree makes you more employable. No degree is truely useless if you intend to use it.

So my engineering friend who studies social science is getting a useless degree? What of the knowledge he has gained, and the achievement of attaining the degree? Must it lead to employment to be worthwhile?

ejmaztec · 16-02-2008 03:12PM

One of my daughters got an arts degree from Crawford in Cork. She's now in Oz working at some Cancer related facility, for now (and not Burger King, surprisingly enough).

Went to school with a guy who decided to go for a degree in Geology, as he was told that it was easy. After he got it, he became a navigator in the RAF, totally related:eek:

Also worked with someone training to be a Chartered Accountant. He had a degree in Hebrew! Another had a degree in Bio-chemistry.

Having a degree, in any subject, proves that your brain hasn't gone to sleep, as far as employment prospects go. Employers know that you're probably up for anything.

Dudess · 16-02-2008 03:13PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I hated the physics courses, didnt study at all and didn't do too well onthe msc, got a 3rd borderline 2-2 Yeah, I'm an actuary now I'm glad I didn't do it, I think now it wouldnt have been my thing. Maybe sometime in the future, I don't know.

Those actuaries, they're supposed to be quite good at all that maths stuff.

Useless Degrees

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