Best way to get rid of person renting room?

aka_Ciaran · 12-02-2008 4:01pm #1

I have a house on the northside and I rent out a double and single room. One of the rooms (the single) is rented by a girl and she's become a real pain in the ass. She started seeing a guy a couple of months ago and he has been staying over 5 or 6 nights per week. Last night I had enough and I said to her that he can't stay over anymore, that I don't mind partners staying the odd night but no more than that. She got stroppy and said he just stays in her room so it shouldn't matter, but they spend a lot of time in the sitting room with dvds which means no-one else can go in there. She also constantly slams doors and walks around on the wooden floors late at night in boots with heavy heels, creating a racket. I also said this, but was the same story still banging doors and walking in the heels at midnight.

I'm sick of it at this stage and just want her to go. She has paid 2 weeks deposit and pays rent monthly, so my questions would be

- What is the minimum notice I need to give her? Can I say she has 2 weeks to move out or do I need to give her a month?
- Do I have any other obligations being the landlord?

I'm fairly easy-going and generally any people I rent rooms to I get on with, but I've been unlucky on this occasion. Would be grateful for people's opinion's on the matter.

Cheers.

markpb · 12-02-2008 4:15pm

If I'm reading it right, you own the house, live there and rent out the second room? In that case she has no rights at all and can be tossed out at a moments notice.

From Oasis:

If you choose to rent out a room(s) in your home, you are not covered by landlord/tenant legislation in Ireland. This means that you are not obliged to register with the PRTB as a landlord, provide a rent book to the tenant or ensure that the accommodation provided meets any minimum physical standards.

This also means that private tenants living in your principal home are living under a "Licensee Agreement" not a tenancy agreement and are really only entitled to "reasonable notice" if you choose to terminate the agreement. Tenants are, however, entitled to refer disputes regarding periods of reasonable notice, retention of deposits, and disputes regarding deductions from rent for damage to property that is over and above normal "wear and tear" to the Small Claims Court.

aka_Ciaran · 12-02-2008 4:48pm

markpb wrote: »

If I'm reading it right, you own the house, live there and rent out the second room? In that case she has no rights at all and can be tossed out at a moments notice.
:

Correct - I'm the owner and she rents a single room, and I also rent a double room to 1 other person. I'm not an a*hole owner occupier either. All I ask is the place is kept clean and the rent is paid on time. I go away or go down home one or 2 weekends a month and also stay in my gf's now and again, so I'm not omnipresent. I don't mind people having gfs/bfs over the odd night but only that, as it's not fair to other ppl in the house. Anything that needs buying or fixing I generally do it asap. I also do a lot of the cleaning, emptying of the dishwasher, putting out bins etc, otherwise it wouldn't get done.

Paulw · 12-02-2008 5:11pm

In that case, give her 2 weeks notice, and start looking for someone else.

Sounds like a fairly simple situation.

aka_Ciaran · 12-02-2008 5:45pm

Paulw wrote: »

In that case, give her 2 weeks notice, and start looking for someone else.

Sounds like a fairly simple situation.

Ok thanks, the reason I posted was that I wanted to know if I had any obligations, or if there was anything I needed to be aware of when giving her the notice.

blah · 12-02-2008 5:53pm

I would say, on average it's cool to have your bf/gf over 2, max 3 nights a week, assuming you'll be at theirs, or out for the night a couple of times a week, but if you want to stay together 6 nights a week, get your own place. I'd say give her notice, I'm sure your other tenant won't be sad to see her go either.

Shelli · 12-02-2008 5:54pm

aka_Ciaran wrote: »

Correct - I'm the owner and she rents a single room, and I also rent a double room to 1 other person. I'm not an a*hole owner occupier either. All I ask is the place is kept clean and the rent is paid on time. I go away or go down home one or 2 weekends a month and also stay in my gf's now and again, so I'm not omnipresent. I don't mind people having gfs/bfs over the odd night but only that, as it's not fair to other ppl in the house. Anything that needs buying or fixing I generally do it asap. I also do a lot of the cleaning, emptying of the dishwasher, putting out bins etc, otherwise it wouldn't get done.

You sound like a decent enough "landlord", she's taking the p*ss if you ask me. I'd get rid of her ASAP.

seamus · 12-02-2008 6:03pm

"My brother/sister needs a place to live for 6 months and can't afford anywhere so they're staying here. I drew names and yours came out, I'm really sorry."

You could alternatively say that because she has the smaller room, you can afford to do without the rent on that room while your sibling stays.

That way there's no bad feeling and it's not tense for the two weeks.

serfboard · 12-02-2008 6:52pm

seamus wrote: »

"My brother/sister needs a place to live for 6 months and can't afford anywhere so they're staying here. I drew names and yours came out, I'm really sorry."

You could alternatively say that because she has the smaller room, you can afford to do without the rent on that room while your sibling stays.

That way there's no bad feeling and it's not tense for the two weeks.

The only problem with this is that words have been exchanged already and so this will be recognised for the lie that it is. Best to be direct - she may do you a favour and leave before the notice period.

mikemac · 12-02-2008 6:59pm

Having your partner over 5-6 nights a week is not on, that boyfriend may as well be paying rent. After all, you are paying for his showers, TV, cooking, etc. But you are right, one or two nights a week is grand, you seem a good landlord.

I’d favour being direct, no point making up stories.
Also, if she is determined to stay for a month or two then you do double the rent as there are double the people occupying her room and she will definitly go.
Better to do this soon before you lose the other good tenant.

OTK · 12-02-2008 7:19pm

This is a really common thing to happen. Next time just specify in advance how often partners can stay.

aka_Ciaran · 13-02-2008 10:18am

OTK wrote: »

This is a really common thing to happen. Next time just specify in advance how often partners can stay.

Yep defo, I've already got a document written up with all such conditions, so I'm going to print off a batch and give to tenants in the future. I'm going to ask the tenant to leave today. As I only ask for 2 weeks deposit off tenants, I think 2 weeks notice is fair.

dudara · 13-02-2008 11:12am

You're being more than nice to her. Good luck with the next tenant.

aka_Ciaran · 13-02-2008 4:17pm

Ok had the conversation on the phone, told her I was giving her 2 weeks notice and wanted her gone by the end of the month. She totally lost the rag, started calling me a liar, that she knows her rights, and that she isn't moving until she's ready, and that I will physically have to remove her if I want to get her out at the end of the month.

So a few weeks of hell in front of me I think

Any ideas what to do if a person refuses to leave?

seamus · 13-02-2008 4:18pm

Call the Gardai, tell them that a person is trespassing in your property and refuses to leave.

markpb · 13-02-2008 4:23pm

Print out a copy of the CI website where it explains that she has no rights and you can evict without reason. Explain that you're giving back all her deposit (assuming you are, of course) and ask her to make sure she's gone by the end of the month. Explain that you're sorry it didn't work out and hope that she finds another place. Try to keep it civil.

If she fails to moves to leave after that date, you could try seamus's route. It's the legal way but I'm not sure how much co-operation you'll get from the gardai. Possibly at that stage inform her that the locks will be changed?

aka_Ciaran · 13-02-2008 4:29pm

seamus wrote: »

Call the Gardai, tell them that a person is trespassing in your property and refuses to leave.

Good idea but I'd be afraid they'd see it as wasting their time as it's a domestic dispute, etc.

markpb wrote:

Print out a copy of the CI website where it explains that she has no rights and you can evict without reason. Explain that you're giving back all her deposit (assuming you are, of course) and ask her to make sure she's gone by the end of the month. Explain that you're sorry it didn't work out and hope that she finds another place. Try to keep it civil.

Ya that was what I was thinking...print out the stuff and highlight the main bits. I'm willing to keep it civil but she will cause as much trouble as she can, that's the type she is.

sweetie · 13-02-2008 4:43pm

i'm on your side but surely if her rent is paid till the end of the month she then has two weeks notice so basically another month to live with her.
Set your alarm for 4 am each night and make a racket outside her room.
That might help

markpb · 13-02-2008 4:50pm

Because it's his house and he lives there, it's not like a normal rented house so he could tell her to be gone by Sunday if he wanted and she'd have no comeback. Of course, the quicker he tells her to leave, the less likely she is to find somewhere else and actually leave so a compromise is necessary. It's going to be painful though, sweetie might be onto the right plan with the 4am alarm clock. Might I suggest a good cow mooing alarm clock?

seamus · 13-02-2008 5:06pm

aka_Ciaran wrote: »

Good idea but I'd be afraid they'd see it as wasting their time as it's a domestic dispute, etc.

Not really. If you annoy them enough they'll come out. Once there, you can explain the situation to them and they'll probably recommend to her that she leave temporarily, just to resolve the situation.

Is there any danger that she'd deliberately steal stuff or cause damage to the property in defiance? If stuff does start going missing or she damages the property, wait till she leaves one day, change the locks and tell her she's gone. Screw the two weeks. Notice or no notice, you are absolutely entitled to immediately remove any tenant who poses a danger to your property or other tenants.

Obviously though you are right to try make every attempt to get her agreed to the two weeks, even reluctantly. Otherwise wait until the two weeks are up and when she leaves change the locks. In fact, change the locks anyway, but if she's refusing to leave then just do it as soon as she's out the door.

japjap · 13-02-2008 5:15pm

Explain to her as nice as possible that she needs to find a new place.

Then buy a new lock and leave it on the table where she will see it. Hopefully she will decide to jump before being pushed.

dudara · 13-02-2008 5:17pm

Explain her rights to her. She clearly is all mouth without any knowledge. Explain to her that you are willing to give her 2 weeks notice in order to assist her in finding a new place to live. Tell her that you will be changing the locks in two weeks time. Don't threaten her with anything. Simply state facts.

Above all else, remain civil.

markf909 · 13-02-2008 5:46pm

Anyone else waiting for a "So my landlord has just told me to leave..." thread?

By the way, i'm shocked that the rent a room scheme allows the ability to turf someone out immediately, not a comment on this case, more in general.

seamus · 13-02-2008 5:50pm

markf909 wrote: »

Anyone else waiting for a "So my landlord has just told me to leave..." thread?

By the way, i'm shocked that the rent a room scheme allows the ability to turf someone out immediately, not a comment on this case, more in general.

In the case of "rent a room", you sort of have to give priority to the landlord because it's his private residence too. Assigning any rights to the lodger wouldn't exactly be fair (and perhaps bordering on unconstitutional).

aka_Ciaran · 13-02-2008 9:19pm

Thanks for all the replies. Good news...she txt'd after the phone call and said she wants to move out straight away, so I agreed to pay her back 2 weeks rent for the rest of the month plus her deposit, minus recent bills. So I am now in the pub having food and giving her time to pack her stuff at her request.

This incident has made me realise how tired I am of renting to strangers. I bought the house by myself 2.5 years ago so have to shoulder all the mortgage. The repayments are approx 1900 per month (up from 1500 originally), which I can't afford by myself, which means I can't afford to live in my own house!

So some thinking to be done in the next while...is it really worth owning and worth all the hassle that goes with it...should I rent somewhere myself and let out the house entirely...

A good long drink and think over the coming weekend methinks

the_syco · 13-02-2008 10:16pm

OP, check the entire house for stuff, in case she packs anything extra.

As for tenants, go into Hodges and Figgis, or Waterstones (both on Dawson Street, in Dublin), and see is there any books there for interviewing possible tenants. They have a hugh, and nice, selection of books, so I'd say that'd be your best bet.

jdivision · 13-02-2008 11:58pm

Ciaran remember that your experience with your other tenant seems to be positive. Just because she takes the piss doesn't mean everyone will.

OTK · 14-02-2008 4:01am

aka_Ciaran wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. Good news...she txt'd after the phone call and said she wants to move out straight away, so I agreed to pay her back 2 weeks rent for the rest of the month plus her deposit, minus recent bills. So I am now in the pub having food and giving her time to pack her stuff at her request.

This incident has made me realise how tired I am of renting to strangers. I bought the house by myself 2.5 years ago so have to shoulder all the mortgage. The repayments are approx 1900 per month (up from 1500 originally), which I can't afford by myself, which means I can't afford to live in my own house!

So some thinking to be done in the next while...is it really worth owning and worth all the hassle that goes with it...should I rent somewhere myself and let out the house entirely...

A good long drink and think over the coming weekend methinks

I think you could have avoided some of these problems by agreeing about partners staying over in advance. Also any agreement should specify termination/notice period on both sides and every other problem situation you can envisage such as late night noise. You print this out, discuss it with the new tenant and ask them to sign on day one.

If you rent out your house in full then you will be facing a stamp duty claw-back bill. I assume you paid no stamp duty as this was your private residence but if you rent it out then it becomes an investment. The rent-a-room scheme will no longer apply and you will have to register as a landlord, pay income tax on rent etc.

If you bought a house that you can't afford to live in by yourself then you will have tenants. Dealing with other people is part of life and solitude is no guarantee of happiness.

Afuera · 14-02-2008 11:02am

OTK wrote: »

If you rent out your house in full then you will be facing a stamp duty claw-back bill. I assume you paid no stamp duty as this was your private residence but if you rent it out then it becomes an investment. The rent-a-room scheme will no longer apply and you will have to register as a landlord, pay income tax on rent etc.

Since they bought over 2 years ago the stamp duty clawback won't apply anymore. They will have to register with the PRTB and file taxes every year though.

markf909 · 14-02-2008 11:14am

seamus wrote: »

In the case of "rent a room", you sort of have to give priority to the landlord because it's his private residence too. Assigning any rights to the lodger wouldn't exactly be fair (and perhaps bordering on unconstitutional).

I understand what you are saying alright, renters rights are poor enough in this country and as an unashamed long time renter (never shared with an owner) I was just unaware of this proviso, I'll certainly jot that one down to remember.

Given the amount of mortgages given out on the premise of renting a room out, there must be quite a lot of people as mortgage holders sharing (depending more like) on tenants and folks renting with bugger all rights.

Hardly a great situation to be in.

Again, a general comment, not reflective of this case.

Boggle · 15-02-2008 12:42pm

In the case of "rent a room", you sort of have to give priority to the landlord because it's his private residence too.

Thats bull and you know it. The guy was naive enough to buy a house he could not afford and to expect other people to pay for it. If you rent a room anywhere should you not be entitled to treat it as your home? Should the owner be entitled to take their money without entitling them to any rights?

And before someone tells me that the law is on his side and that its just plain tough that tennant rights are so sh1te in this place - I know! Wonder what'll happen if tennants rights are properly enforced??

seamus · 15-02-2008 12:50pm

Boggle wrote: »

Thats bull and you know it. The guy was naive enough to buy a house he could not afford and to expect other people to pay for it. If you rent a room anywhere should you not be entitled to treat it as your home? Should the owner be entitled to take their money without entitling them to any rights?

I wasn't referring to this specific case. When one guy buys a house and rents a room, it's the landlord's home as well, the landlord can't just up roots and move elsewhere and the landlord has personal and financial interests in the property.
A tenant can just up and move and has no financial interest in the property, so while he's perfectly entitled to call it his home, the rights of the resident landlord have to supersede his. It's the only fair way. You can't expect someone to be forced to live in their property with a tenant whom they can't stand?
It may not be PC and I can hear renters screaming out about their rights, but if you're renting in someone's private residence, they're in charge and they quite rightly have more rights than you do in the property.
It's like your parents used to say - when you own your own property you can do whatever you like, until then put up or shut up.

If you're renting an entire property from someone, you have way more rights and rightly so - the landlord only has a financial interest in the property.

And before someone tells me that the law is on his side and that its just plain tough that tennant rights are so sh1te in this place - I know! Wonder what'll happen if tennants rights are properly enforced??

Tenants rights are properly enforced. The problem is that most tenants don't know their rights and don't know how to enforce them.

OTK · 15-02-2008 11:54pm

Afuera wrote: »

Since they bought over 2 years ago the stamp duty clawback won't apply anymore.

I think you're wrong here. 2 year clawback only applies to property bought after Budget 2008.
http://www.revenue.ie/index.htm?/leaflets/first_time_buyers.htm

The_Conductor · 16-02-2008 4:39pm

OTK wrote: »

I think you're wrong here. 2 year clawback only applies to property bought after Budget 2008.
http://www.revenue.ie/index.htm?/leaflets/first_time_buyers.htm

Correct. And the 2 year clawback was a reduction on the 5 year rule- which only came in in Jan 07. The rental of rooms is specifically excluded however- once the threshold is not breeched.

microgirl · 16-02-2008 5:13pm

aka_Ciaran wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. Good news...she txt'd after the phone call and said she wants to move out straight away, so I agreed to pay her back 2 weeks rent for the rest of the month plus her deposit, minus recent bills. So I am now in the pub having food and giving her time to pack her stuff at her request.

This incident has made me realise how tired I am of renting to strangers. I bought the house by myself 2.5 years ago so have to shoulder all the mortgage. The repayments are approx 1900 per month (up from 1500 originally), which I can't afford by myself, which means I can't afford to live in my own house!

So some thinking to be done in the next while...is it really worth owning and worth all the hassle that goes with it...should I rent somewhere myself and let out the house entirely...

A good long drink and think over the coming weekend methinks

Well, if it was a double room I'd come and be your new tenant - I'm lovely!

But a single won't hold a fraction of my stuff

I'm really sorry to hear of you having such a hard time renting out rooms, but yeah, it's one of the reasons I'm very reluctant to buy somewhere. I couldn't afford a mortgage on my own, but am apprehensive about getting decent people to share with - and all my friends have accommodation sorted.

Setting the whole house and renting somewhere smaller yourself is certainly a plan. Not sure you'd get enough rent to completely cover the mortgage though (depending on whereabouts you are on the Northside etc) so not sure you'd be all that better off.

chump · 16-02-2008 6:04pm

microgirl wrote: »

Well, if it was a double room I'd come and be your new tenant - I'm lovely! But a single won't hold a fraction of my stuff

I'm really sorry to hear of you having such a hard time renting out rooms, but yeah, it's one of the reasons I'm very reluctant to buy somewhere. I couldn't afford a mortgage on my own, but am apprehensive about getting decent people to share with - and all my friends have accommodation sorted.

Setting the whole house and renting somewhere smaller yourself is certainly a plan. Not sure you'd get enough rent to completely cover the mortgage though (depending on whereabouts you are on the Northside etc) so not sure you'd be all that better off.

It's a shame that renting out rooms is the only way a lot of people can afford to own a property.

One of my mates tried it and luckily got rid of the house before the recent downturn, he was lucky to sell. Found it a pain to deal with all the hassle that goes with renting rooms.

OP, best of luck finding better housemates - I personally think your rent out the entire house idea might be a good one.

Jo King · 16-02-2008 6:14pm

chump wrote: »

It's a shame that renting out rooms is the only way a lot of people can afford to own a property.

One of my mates tried it and luckily got rid of the house before the recent downturn, he was lucky to sell. Found it a pain to deal with all the hassle that goes with renting rooms.

OP, best of luck finding better housemates - I personally think your rent out the entire house idea might be a good one.

Renting out the whole house means you lose the rent a room relief and end up with a capital gains tax liabilities and in some cases, stamp duty and income tax liabilities.
The thing to do is get rid of bad tenants quickly. After a period a landlord gets used to dealing with situations as well as developing an ability to head off trouble, some times even before a prospective tenant moves in.

DawnMc · 16-02-2008 11:01pm

Wow, delighted to come across this thread. I am landlady/owner occupier blah blah. I have lived with some seriously annoying people but was too scared to 'get rid' in case they sued me or something but now realise they have no rights - score! Well, for the evil housemates... Most have been lovely but it's great to know for the future! Best of luck OP

Firetrap · 17-02-2008 11:02am

I rent a room in a house and luckily I get on very well with the owner who also lives there. She has rented out rooms in the house for years and says that you should always go with your instinct when it comes to getting new tenants. The one time she didn't (because she was a bit desperate at the time) she was sorry as the person turned out to be a drug user and she had to throw him out.

aka_Ciaran · 18-02-2008 10:15am

Thanks again for all the replies...got a lot of positive feedback which helps. I usually do vet people carefully and go with my gut feeling. This girl seemed normal and was pretty friendly, had a good job, etc so I thought it would be grand, but I suppose one or two can always slip through the net. After having a good think over the weekend I'm going to continue renting rooms. Things are back to normal now and the pain has eased a bit! It would be a lot of hassle if I was to move out myself so I'm going to continue as is, just be more careful about who I rent to.

microgirl wrote: »

Well, if it was a double room I'd come and be your new tenant - I'm lovely! But a single won't hold a fraction of my stuff

Microgirl I've shuffled things around a bit and I have a double room to rent now as I'm leaving the single free for the moment, so if you're interested let me know!

Furkin_Bastage · 27-02-2008 3:21am

anyone know if there are any rooms going in around blanchardstown?

IanCurtis · 27-02-2008 5:54pm

DawnMc wrote: »

but now realise they have no rights - score!

Thank you Fianna Fail

Another victory for the greedy Irish

They buy a house they can't afford, and give those paying the mortgage no rights....yes, pat yourself on the back.

33cl · 05-03-2008 1:53pm

I can really sympathise with Ciaran. I was living in my folks house in Dublin a few years ago (they were living abroad) so they obviously wanted to rent out the extra rooms. This French girl moved in but decided a few months later she wanted to move out immediately (a couple days) and get her deposit back as well (!!), forgetting that'd take me at least a few weeks to get a new student in. I refused to give her deposit back because she'd signed a 1 year contract with my folks. She went to her university accomodation rep and complained I was being an a**hole, unreasonable, etc. So I went in and met the rep (with the girl & 2 of her friends present) who then accused me of being 'dogmatic' and that the French girl was entitled to take me/my folks to the small claims court for the deposit money. I think they were attempting a sort of 'girl power' gang up on me (the rep was female too) but it completely failed as she eventually burst into tears in the office in front of everyone. She headed back to France a few days later, minus her deposit and empty threats.

Best way to get rid of person renting room?

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