Human rights for all?

Lockstep · 09-02-2008 07:47PM

Quality wrote: »

Excellent point, cant argue with that..

I still agree with what you say, prisoners should work, a lot of them have had ****ty deals growing up in life and work can give you a sense of self esteem, plus it would train them for life outside.

I just think that great care needs to be made to ensure that they aren't being used by companies to make a profit/take jobs away from workers.

jill_valentine · 09-02-2008 08:45PM

To me, a lot of the "Blah, Paedos should be tortured!" posts are indicative of a certain flavour of morally righteous sadism. There's no reasonable arguing with the mindset, so it's hard to bother. So it doesn't necessarily mean that everybody, or even most people here, consider human rights to be conditional, just they tend to be the most vocal.

In a full tilt pitchfork-and-torches thread, who wants to be the poster going "Jesus Christ, have you people lost your minds??!!?"

pirelli · 09-02-2008 09:16PM

dsmythy wrote: »

If you fail to act like a human being you should be therefore classified as a non-human. Committing murder is the most anti-humane thing around so why should the perpetrator be treated otherwise? My first thought is always the death penalty for these fruckers but when i think about it i rather they rot slowly in jail for the rest of their lives on basic supplies. Death is too quick and easy for them.

Kold wrote: »

That sounds malicious to me. Surely if you are above them you shouldn't give a **** as long as they can't do it to anyone else?

It's not all black and white that you throw them in the gutter maliciously. I believe corrupt officials are the true scourge of civilisation , That is people entrusted with gathering evidence and compiling prosecution case's i.e false confession's and tampered evidence and planting evidence and jail house snitchs and generally lying and of course the incompetent lawyer. If there wasnt such a business of people abusing justice then people wouldnt be so vicious. Admittedly in reality it is more convienent to hurt the person you despise off record and then to lie about it, bigoted as that seems. I wouldnt like to have to go through the embarrassment of trying to get the police to prosecute a paedophile who really I can only call a hebephile for a crime that would humilate the victim in explaining. It's laughable that people have such strong feelings about the end of the process i.e the penalty. The injustice always starts at the beginning of the process. Sexual offenders rarely see the penalty stage. Alot of sexuable abuse in the last decade could have been prevented but because of this start of the process problem i.e hebephile homosexuals that procure children for sex. There is a group called man boy that actually believes this behaviour is acceptable. The gardai only involvement in catching a sex ring was when a garda was a member of that sex ring.The childs mother caught him. Human rights are paramount expecially in this age of technology. In ancient time's toungues were softer and language more intelligent and traditions and customs had more importance. Our wings are growing smaller and our criminal records bigger and longer.In reality this thread should be about building a bigger prison to house all the indictable felons.Sexual assualt of a child is only a misdeameanour while rape is a felony.Is this the issue.

the_syco · 09-02-2008 09:24PM

Quality wrote: »

They chose to murder, rape, abuse someone...

If think they did it cos they liked doing it? That some of them would have a **** thinking about when they killed someone? Some of these people don't think like everyone else.

Quality wrote: »

It is their own conscience they are living with, Meaning they will be torturing themselves..

"torturing themselves"? How? Reread the bit above about some getting off on the abuse.

Quality wrote: »

Why should they have the death penalty and be given the easy way out?
I say hard labour and Life sentences meaning life for people who take a life.

Easy way out? Nay: everyone wants to live. Killing them prevents them from doing so, and it also is a sure way of preventing them of reoffending.

=-=

I'm for the death penalty, but it's a pity the evidence causing it can be tampered with, or can be just wrong.

=-=

The Nazi's had human rights for all, except for the Jews, gypsies, etc... much like the people in this thread want human rights for all, except for the peados, killers...

It's not whether or not they've done something to deserve it, it's whether or not the majority thinks what they did was wrong.

Stercus Accidit · 09-02-2008 09:26PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Sigh. I'll go eat my tea since you're occupied up there on that cross.

In fairness, modern science and dedicated research into a life changing decision,
ie, kazobels

Versus,

Lazily googling a wikipedia article.

EamonnKeane · 09-02-2008 09:36PM

snyper wrote: »

Dont get me wrong, i no fcuking bleeding heart, but 1 person that gets convicted for somthing they havnt done and get the death sentence is enough to not have a death penelty.

One could say the same about any penalty of any kind. Justice can't be perfect. The death penalty would send a message as to the gravity of murder

09-02-2008 09:36PM

There is a problem with the administration of capital punishment that everyone seems to forget or ignore? The criminal is sentenced to death, and the State kills him? Well, it's not the abstract "State" that kills him, but a real, living person that must kill another person.

Kazobel · 09-02-2008 09:44PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Sigh. I'll go eat my tea since you're occupied up there on that cross.

What cross are you on about you twat? you're name suits you and by the way we can a quote wikipedia :rolleyes:

Castrato

Castration before puberty (or in its early stages) prevents a boy's larynx from being transformed by the normal physiological events of puberty. As a result, the vocal range of prepubescence (shared by both sexes) is largely retained, and the voice develops into adulthood in a unique way. As the castrato's body grew, his lack of testosterone meant that his epiphyses (bone-joints) did not harden in the normal manner. Thus the limbs of the castrati often grew unusually long, as did the bones of their ribs. This, combined with intensive training, gave them unrivalled lung-power and breath capacity. Operating through small, child-sized vocal cords, their voices were also extraordinarily flexible, and quite different from the equivalent adult female voice, as well as higher vocal ranges of the uncastrated adult male (see soprano, mezzo-soprano, alto, sopranist, countertenor and contralto). Listening to the only surviving recordings of a castrato (see below), one can hear that the lower part of the voice sounds like a "super-high" tenor, with a more falsetto-like upper register above that.

I stand by what I said, a pre-pubesent boy doesn't choose to be castrated

Lockstep · 09-02-2008 09:48PM

EamonnKeane wrote: »

One could say the same about any penalty of any kind. Justice can't be perfect.

Hardly a fair example.

Paying a e200 fine or spending a few years in jail is vastly different being killed. Any non-lethal penalty can at least be compensated to some degree. Being executed can never be compensated.

EamonnKeane wrote: »

The death penalty would send a message as to the gravity of murder

As I said before:
We're gonna kill people who kill people to teach people it's wrong to kill people?

Gordon · 09-02-2008 10:02PM

Kazobel wrote: »

What cross are you on about you twat? you're name suits you and by the way we can a quote wikipedia :rolleyes:

Castrato

I stand by what I said, a pre-pubesent boy doesn't choose to be castrated

No need for sweary marys there Kazobel.

Being a eunuch at some points in history has been very advantageous. They could get to be the right hand man of leaders and royalty. There was even a case of a eunuch gaining power over a country due to his king dying and leaving him in charge. Unfortunately I don't have my book that I read that in here so I can't give you any references wrt this, sorry.

Incidentally, just because you have your balls chopped off doesn't mean you don't get erections and have sexual drive. Castrated men can even ejaculate a small amount of fluid.

Quality · 09-02-2008 10:28PM

the_syco wrote: »

If think they did it cos they liked doing it? That some of them would have a **** thinking about when they killed someone? Some of these people don't think like everyone else.

"torturing themselves"? How? Reread the bit above about some getting off on the abuse.

Allow them to live in frustration then for the rest of their miserable lives..

Easy way out? Nay: everyone wants to live. Killing them prevents them from doing so, and it also is a sure way of preventing them of reoffending

Being locked up prevents them from reoffending..

But the sentencing laws in this country are a joke..

Kazobel · 09-02-2008 11:26PM

Gordon wrote: »

No need for sweary marys there Kazobel.

I didn't curse, I wanted to considering what he was implying but I chose not to.

Gordon wrote: »

Being a eunuch at some points in history has been very advantageous. They could get to be the right hand man of leaders and royalty. There was even a case of a eunuch gaining power over a country due to his king dying and leaving him in charge. Unfortunately I don't have my book that I read that in here so I can't give you any references wrt this, sorry.

I know at times there have been eunuchs who chose it soley for the status it brought but there's a difference between choice and forced, 14 year old boys didn't choose and no one no matter how bad their crime should have it done to them either because it wouldn't be an affective punishment, you'd be condemning them to a slow death. Don't worry about the books, I hate all that "Where's your source?" crap, I believe you in what you're saying.

Gordon wrote: »

Incidentally, just because you have your balls chopped off doesn't mean you don't get erections and have sexual drive. Castrated men can even ejaculate a small amount of fluid.

I have to disagree here, I know from the experience of a chemical castration that erections stop, sex drive becomes more affection based because you become assexual where sex doesn't really matter anymore. I'm only saying this from the point of view of being a pre-op TS and only how it's affected me, others might be different but I doubt it, none of my other TS friends have functionallity either.

SimpleSam06 · 10-02-2008 12:01AM

Motosam wrote: »

In fairness, modern science and dedicated research into a life changing decision,
ie, kazobels

Versus,

Lazily googling a wikipedia article.

Lets try,

A supported point of view from a semi respectable source

Versus,

Some random claiming they are a post op.

Kazobel wrote: »

What cross are you on about you twat?

Kazobel wrote: »

I didn't curse

Wow. Yes, you are a stable and good source of information.

Kazobel wrote: »

I know at times there have been eunuchs who chose it soley for the status it brought but there's a difference between choice and forced, 14 year old boys didn't choose and no one no matter how bad their crime should have it done to them

Sooo, which one do you think I was referring to?

Kazobel wrote: »

Don't worry about the books, I hate all that "Where's your source?" crap, I believe you in what you're saying.

Ah my faith in the value of your contributions is fully restored.

Kazobel · 10-02-2008 12:29AM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Lets try,

A supported point of view from a semi respectable source

Versus,

Some random claiming they are a post op.

Semi respectable? oh yeah wikipedia, because some guy on the internet told me so it must be true.

I'm neither random nor claimed to be "Post-op", as a matter of fact anyone here will tell you I've only ever said I was pre-op

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Wow. Yes, you are a stable and good source of information.

All my information is based on experience, all your information is based on hear-say

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Sooo, which one do you think I was referring to?.

It doesn't matter which one you were talking about, a eunuch is a eunuch and subject to the same medical problems.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Ah my faith in the value of your contributions is fully restored.

Ask me do I give a rats arse? the fact remains that I'm the only person posting on this thread to my knowledge that has any kind of real life insight into the effects of castration of any kind, I don't need wikipedia.

Gordon · 10-02-2008 01:09AM

This is an interesting piece seemingly written by a castrated man. Of course, it's just a random web page so may not have much merit, but maybe it is true. Maybe chemical castrations render a person with no sex drive but judging by Sherry Lanina there this isn't the case. So maybe a chemical castration causes different effects to actual castrations?

I find it hard to believe that having your testicles severed from your body will cause you to die a slow death by heart stoppage. But it's an interesting discussion probably more suited to the Biology forum.

Maybe a better method for stopping sex offenders to re-offend would actually be better chopping their penis off, that's probably what this particular argument is doing to the greater argument.

Terry · 10-02-2008 01:12AM

Kazobel wrote: »

What cross are you on about you twat? you're name suits you and by the way we can a quote wikipedia :rolleyes:

Castrato

I stand by what I said, a pre-pubesent boy doesn't choose to be castrated

Banned for personal abuse.
SimpleSam06, stop screwing around.

the_syco · 10-02-2008 01:30AM

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

There is a problem with the administration of capital punishment that everyone seems to forget or ignore? The criminal is sentenced to death, and the State kills him? Well, it's not the abstract "State" that kills him, but a real, living person that must kill another person.

In the US, there's a line of people that want to flick the switch for the electric chair. Seemingly, some get a buzz from legally killing someone.

Gordon wrote: »

Maybe a better method for stopping sex offenders to re-offend would actually be better chopping their penis off, that's probably what this particular argument is doing to the greater argument.

As rape is often seen as a way to show off one's power, f**king the woman with a brush will also work. Also, some men who have had the snip just becomes more spiteful of women, and think of other ways to rape them.

SimpleSam06 · 10-02-2008 09:41AM

Gordon wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that having your testicles severed from your body will cause you to die a slow death by heart stoppage. But it's an interesting discussion probably more suited to the Biology forum.

Well the average age of the last eunuchs found in the Chinese courts was 74, if thats any good.

Kold · 10-02-2008 04:47PM

I don't understand how the death penalty or allowing suicide is allowing the person the 'easy way out'? What exactly does watching someone stripped of all dignity and tortured achieve? Don't say it serves as a warning because that's bullsh*t. People don't reason that way "Sh*t I reeeeally want to sodomise that kid, well I suppose it's only a couple of consecutive sentences".

Another part of this is that yes, in a lot of these cases society has failed the individual. It's not that these people were born inherently evil. Yes they need to be removed from society but I would almost say that some of the blood baying is quite perverse. Either that or simplistic.

Terry · 10-02-2008 04:59PM

Kold, I wouldn't worry about the comments here.
Most of it is just internet hardmen talking crap.

Put the same questions to them in real life and you would get a completely different response.

Kold · 10-02-2008 05:08PM

How sure are you of that? I've heard a lot of the same things in real conversations.

Quality · 10-02-2008 05:25PM

Kold wrote: »

I don't understand how the death penalty or allowing suicide is allowing the person the 'easy way out'? What exactly does watching someone stripped of all dignity and tortured achieve? Don't say it serves as a warning because that's bullsh*t. People don't reason that way "Sh*t I reeeeally want to sodomise that kid, well I suppose it's only a couple of consecutive sentences".

Another part of this is that yes, in a lot of these cases society has failed the individual. It's not that these people were born inherently evil. Yes they need to be removed from society but I would almost say that some of the blood baying is quite perverse. Either that or simplistic.

Hey Kold

Can i ask what your opinions are on

the death penalty,

torture

prison sentences

what should happen to racists murderers and paedos?

Thanks x

4Xcut · 10-02-2008 11:32PM

Quality wrote: »

If they introduced labour into the prison service the inmates could earn their keep so to speak..

If the prison service was less cushy their would be less crime.

I am sick of the human rights activists giving out about certain parts of Mountjoy in which the inmates have to slop out... So ****ing what??.. they are in their because they are criminals, They are not on a holiday!!

Finally, someone else gets it. Wah wah, i murdered someone and now i have to empty a bucket of my own sh1t. Scum(and by that i refere to violent criminals only) deserve no better.

I stress that this is the attitude to violent criminals only. For non-violent crimes there should be mandetory smal prison scentances followed by a legal reduction in wage to the minimum wage and revokation of the passport. This would force them to work for crap pay and just barely get by without costing the tax-payer anything.

Rapists/paedophiles should all be given heroin and then have it taken away from them when they're addicted - can't imagine that it'd be much fun.

11-02-2008 12:12AM

the_syco wrote: »

In the US, there's a line of people that want to flick the switch for the electric chair. Seemingly, some get a buzz from legally killing someone.

Only people like this in the US? Get real! You can find such people in every country on this planet.

The point that most seem to avoid or choose to ignore is that the abstract State does not kill a condemned criminal, but a real, living person is delegated the task. How in good conscience can we support a job description that includes "executioner?"

Kold · 11-02-2008 12:31AM

Quality wrote: »

Hey Kold

Can i ask what your opinions are on

the death penalty,

Something that should remain beyond current society's powers.

Quality wrote: »

torture

Completely inhumane, completely. Why would you torture someone who's already been found guilty? Some kind of sick 'revenge'? As a means to extract information it's pretty useless also as people will tend to say whatever you want to hear to make you stop.

Quality wrote: »

prison sentences

The correct response to criminal activity where smaller crimes and rehabilital cases should be educated and well, rehabilitated. As for beyond that well, I don't really know to be honest.

Quality wrote: »

what should happen to racists murderers and paedos?

Well those are 3 different things (I hesitate to call racism a crime) which can be commited in hugely different circumstances. Cases should be treated individually every time. I don't really think throwing them in the same room is the most humane thing in the world.

Lockstep · 12-02-2008 10:05AM

Kold wrote: »

Something that should remain beyond current society's powers.

Completely inhumane, completely. Why would you torture someone who's already been found guilty? Some kind of sick 'revenge'? As a means to extract information it's pretty useless also as people will tend to say whatever you want to hear to make you stop.

The correct response to criminal activity where smaller crimes and rehabilital cases should be educated and well, rehabilitated. As for beyond that well, I don't really know to be honest.

Well those are 3 different things (I hesitate to call racism a crime) which can be commited in hugely different circumstances. Cases should be treated individually every time. I don't really think throwing them in the same room is the most humane thing in the world.

Great post there.

Human rights for all?

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