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O'Donoghue Not Guilty of Murder

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Boggles wrote: »
    Sorry to hear of you illness.

    How about the fact that he could have got life for what he did. From that fact alone 3 years is light.

    you can get life for driving threw a stop sign and causing an accident that kills someone. in reality you generally would not even get convicted of manslaughter but it is possible, does that mean that any sentence(if any) is light as it is possible under statute to get life?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    you can get life for driving threw a stop sign and causing an accident that kills someone. in reality you generally would not even get convicted of manslaughter but it is possible, does that mean that any sentence(if any) is light as it is possible under statute to get life?

    Stop comparing the case to a traffic accident.

    Facts.

    1. He killed him with his bare hands, rising out of anger.
    2. He hid and tried to burn the body.
    3. He assured the childs mother the boy would be found alright.

    In my opinion, 4 years is a joke, serving 3. Now whether that is coming from my heart or my head it doesn't matter. I'm not a robot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Beelzebub




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Boggles wrote: »
    In my opinion, 4 years is a joke, serving 3. Now whether that is coming from my heart or my head it doesn't matter. I'm not a robot.

    grand we have to agree to disagree then which was always the inevitable outcome of the thread anyway


    edit; im suprised you kept responding as long as you did tbh :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Beelzebub


    Whether Robert Holohan was accidently killed or murdered intentionally by Wayne O'Donoghue, we will never know, we can never know because we weren't there.
    We have to accept the verdict of the jury who found Wayne O'Donoghue guilty of manslaughter. It will be extremely difficult if not impossible for his family to accept this.

    What is difficult to accept for a lot of people and myself included is the leniency of the sentencing.

    It doesn't seem just, even if it is the law ,that is to say the punishment does not seem to fit the crime.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Boggles wrote: »
    How about the fact that he could have got life for what he did. From that fact alone 3 years is light.

    It's also possible to get a suspended sentence for manslaughter, and from that point of view, four years (not three, he was sentenced to four) is a long time, so what's your point?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It's also possible to get a suspended sentence for manslaughter, and from that point of view, four years (not three, he was sentenced to four) is a long time, so what's your point?

    It wasn't long enough.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    So what do you think is a suitable sentence for manslaughter? And why?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    So what do you think is a suitable sentence for manslaughter? And why?

    This case, the maximum, Why? It's been discussed to death already.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Where's PeakOutput Gone, the quiter! :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    ah dont drag me back in we agreed to disagree

    i actually went to watch a few good men which was in the unusual bracket of great films i havnt seen. i'll warn you though after watching that i am actually qualified in law and therefore legally allowed to pass irrefutable judgement on this debate.

    as that is the case i submit that i am in fact correct, why? because thats what i believe


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    ah dont drag me back in we agreed to disagree

    i actually went to watch a few good men which was in the unusual bracket of great films i havnt seen. i'll warn you though after watching that i am actually qualified in law and therefore legally allowed to pass irrefutable judgement on this debate.

    as that is the case i submit that i am in fact correct, why? because thats what i believe

    You Can't Handle the Truth!! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Actually, here's a better question: What do you consider a fair sentence, in light of the charges he had made against him, and of the crime of which he was convicted, and of the information that was accepted in court? I mean, if you're trying to say you don't accept the information in the trial, then just stop arguing, open your private detective business and make up the law that way. Otherwise, use the information as it was given in court, and the crimes he was in fact convicted of, and separate them from your conjecture, then decide, and give a decent explanation why it shouldn't be lower.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Actually, here's a better question: What do you consider a fair sentence, in light of the charges he had made against him, and of the crime of which he was convicted, and of the information that was accepted in court? I mean, if you're trying to say you don't accept the information in the trial, then just stop arguing, open your private detective business and make up the law that way. Otherwise, use the information as it was given in court, and the crimes he was in fact convicted of, and separate them from your conjecture, then decide, and give a decent explanation why it shouldn't be lower.

    your not going to convince him/her and thats ok. the world does need people who think with their hearts and personalise things to balance out the other side of things.


    luckily we dont let them run countries just like we dont let socialists / anarchists / communists run countries either :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Actually, here's a better question: What do you consider a fair sentence, in light of the charges he had made against him, and of the crime of which he was convicted, and of the information that was accepted in court? I mean, if you're trying to say you don't accept the information in the trial, then just stop arguing, open your private detective business and make up the law that way. Otherwise, use the information as it was given in court, and the crimes he was in fact convicted of, and separate them from your conjecture, then decide, and give a decent explanation why it shouldn't be lower.

    Okay I will stop talking to you now, because I'm dizzy going around in circles with you.

    From purely the trial, the only thing I have been basing my opinion on, He should have got the maximum sentence. Okay? Got that


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    He should get the maximum for what was accepted by a court as an entirely accidental killing? Best of luck with that. That would mean there should be no degrees of sentencing for manslaughter. Nice to know it incurs a mandatory life sentence when you're in charge. Here's a thought: If you feel so damn strongly, are you going to write a letter to your local Dail and Seanad representatives to try and have the legislature change it? If not, you should really hold your tongue here as well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    your not going to convince him/her and thats ok. the world does need people who think with their hearts and personalise things to balance out the other side of things.


    luckily we dont let them run countries just like we dont let socialists / anarchists / communists run countries either :p

    When a child gets strangled to death in the small country we live in, I think in a small way it should be personal to everybody.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Boggles wrote: »
    When a child gets strangled to death in the small country we live in, I think in a small way it should be personal to everybody.

    Not even slightly correct. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Boggles wrote: »
    When a child gets strangled to death in the small country we live in, I think in a small way it should be personal to everybody.

    and because we fundamentally disagree we will never be able to convince eachother. I know iv said all i can on the matter. thats not to say i wont get dragged in by some other ridicolous comment in a day or so but for now im done arguing...........at least about this


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Boggles wrote: »
    His decisions were still questioned, I wasn't debating the result.

    Are you trying to suggest that the mere questioning of his decision is reason to suspect him of impropriety? Does everyone who has ever been accused of a criminal offence, even when they are proved to be innocent, have a question mark hanging over them? By contrast, does everyone who ever questions the prosecution's evidence by default raise a reasonable doubt?

    Obviously his decisions are questioned - in every trial there must be a loosing side (if I can put it so bluntly) - and people are entitled to appeal these decisions.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Beelzebub wrote: »
    Whether Robert Holohan was accidently killed or murdered intentionally by Wayne O'Donoghue, we will never know, we can never know because we weren't there.
    We have to accept the verdict of the jury who found Wayne O'Donoghue guilty of manslaughter. It will be extremely difficult if not impossible for his family to accept this.

    What is difficult to accept for a lot of people and myself included is the leniency of the sentencing.

    It doesn't seem just, even if it is the law ,that is to say the punishment does not seem to fit the crime.

    One of the big problems that I have with this line of reasoning is this: it is based on how people view the punishment rather than the punishment itself.

    Let's say, for example, that I wake up tomorrow and I'm in America. I try to buy some breakfast and I'm told that it costs $10. Because I'm not familiar with America, American money, or American prices, I don't know what the $10 represents in real terms, nor do I know whether I'm getting a good deal or if I'm being shafted as a tourist.

    However, if I were to say to myself that $10 is about €7 (A), then I can start to understand how much the breakfast costs. If I have a job in America that pays $10 an hour(B), I have an even more real sense of value. Knowing what the breakfast is composed of, and how much time/effort/materials is put in also helps me understand why the resteraunt owner charges that price (C). And if I were to go around to all the various resteraunts etc and find out their prices(D), then I will have sufficient information to make a rational decision on whether the price fits the breakfast.

    So to apply this to the argument that the punishment fits the crime, I believe you need to understand:
    A) what the punishment (i.e. 4 years imprisonment) actually entails, not in an abstract way, but in relation to what you know;
    B) the effect, or likely effect that the sentence will have on the offender
    C) the reasons why the sentence imposed was as long / short as it was; and
    D) the range of sentences imposed for similar offences.

    The biggest problem here is that people seem to think that a few years in prison is not bad. The media have perpetuated two myths - that prisoners are treated very well with their own cells with flat screen TVs and all sorts of goodies courtsy of the state and that what would be considered to be a long stretch by anyone who has to actually serve it (i.e. 5 years or more) is seen as a slap on the wrist.

    I'll put it this way, on what experience would you base your assertion that it was a lenient sentence? I think the casual observer can no more know what it's like to spend time in prison than a man can know what the pain of child birth is like. In the latter case, not knowing what pregnancy is like is no reason for a man to be dismissive of the pain involved, and so I find it difficult to see how a prison sentence can be considerd lenient in an absolute way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    that prisoners are treated very well with their own cells with flat screen TVs and all sorts of goodies ......... so I find it difficult to see how a prison sentence can be considerd lenient in an absolute way.

    You forgot Cell phones and Budgies.

    It's Prison mate, it's supposed to be tough, they are being punished for christ sake.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Mrs Roy Keane


    Maximilian wrote: »
    What about switching off a life support machine? Does that make the switch turner a killer?

    Its different but i guess it still makes you a killer


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Its different but i guess it still makes you a killer

    no talking to some people


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,983 ✭✭✭Red Hand


    If you catch the flu, and spread it to another person, who dies of it...does that make you a killer? Or merely a vector?:D

    This thread is insane at this stage!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭Maximilian


    Maximilian wrote: »
    What about switching off a life support machine? Does that make the switch turner a killer?
    Its different but i guess it still makes you a killer
    PeakOutput wrote: »
    no talking to some people
    If you catch the flu, and spread it to another person, who dies of it...does that make you a killer? Or merely a vector?:D

    This thread is insane at this stage!

    Ok, all very fascinating but bear with me for a moment...

    Now, what happens if we use a few hundred thousand dominoes and make a line from the switch out onto the street. We set a "honey-trap" - placing free Pedobear toys under a large plastic cushion that when picked up, starts the dominoes falling, leading all the way back to the life support machine. As the last domino falls, striking the switch, the life-support machine switches off.

    Thus set, a passing Catholic Priest, spying the attractive Pedobear trips up over a can of worms glued to the pavement nearby, and lands on the Pedobear. Minutes later, somewhere nearby, bathed in the soft golden light of dusk, a child starts to cry...

    So now, my question is, was Keung T'ai Kung the 12th century inventor of dominoes, a killer?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,983 ✭✭✭Red Hand


    Were the worms in the can active or passive participants, though?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 235 ✭✭lizann


    Wayne O Donoghue is a child killer accidential or not


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭Dennis the Stone


    Well that is kind of obvious


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭Maximilian


    Were the worms in the can active or passive participants, though?


    Active, let's say.


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